Blue Jays Sign Jose Bautista

[Governator]

We should have more than enough money to sign whoever we want at this point in the offseason. We're way below the stated budget.

 

no.. no we're not.

[Boxcar]

no.. no we're not.

 

What are you doing

[CHRIS]

After Navarro's season, surely he'd be avail for dirt cheap? Not sure if he's a fit anymore but Steamer still likes him.

 

He's not a fit in general, IMO.

 

He's *really* not a fit with Gibbons managing.

[Jay Train]

We should have more than enough money to sign whoever we want at this point in the offseason. We're way below the stated budget.

 

What was the stated budget?

[BTS]

We need an outfielder and more BP arms. We don't know how Grilli's arm is gonna hold especially after slowing down last year, and Loup hasn't proved to show that he's gotten back to at least being decent. The bullpen you mentioned is not post season calibre and we saw what a bad BP did to us last year and what a great BP does for other teams.

 

But that's why I said the off-season isn't done yet, you asked as of now and I said for what they started with it's great but are the holes all filled? No, but I don't expect them to be filled either because we literally don't have the farm resources and the FA market is s***

 

The bullpen is fine. Adding an arm or two that might be a few runs above replacement certainly isn't going to move the needle on the season's outcome.

[BTS]

We should have more than enough money to sign whoever we want at this point in the offseason. We're way below the stated budget.

 

If Bautista makes 18M this year, the team is at around 153M. If the budget is 160, they don't have much room.

[Boxcar]

The bullpen is fine. Adding an arm or two that might be a few runs above replacement certainly isn't going to move the needle on the season's outcome.

 

I think fatcow knows that he's erred but is digging his heels in anyway.

[intentional wok]

What did the "bad" BP cost the Jays last year? Was it even bad?

[Governator]

What did the "bad" BP cost the Jays last year? Was it even bad?

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[Ray]

If you wait until just before Spring Training, guys like Moss, Pagan, Coghlan etc will come dirt cheap on 1 year deals. Getting Bautista will push us to around ~$153 million. Push that budget to $165 and you can probably get a backup C and OF. Maybe even squeeze in a bullpen arm depending on who you want to get.

[Captain Adama]

We need an outfielder and more BP arms. We don't know how Grilli's arm is gonna hold especially after slowing down last year, and Loup hasn't proved to show that he's gotten back to at least being decent. The bullpen you mentioned is not post season calibre and we saw what a bad BP did to us last year and what a great BP does for other teams.

 

But that's why I said the off-season isn't done yet, you asked as of now and I said for what they started with it's great but are the holes all filled? No, but I don't expect them to be filled either because we literally don't have the farm resources and the FA market is s***

 

The Blue Jays' BP was probably the most underrated bullpen of all the playoff teams, they gave up a total of 2 earned runs in the entire playoffs 39.1 total innings.

 

The bullpen was a major reason why they made it as far as the ALCS in the first place. I can think of 3 games easy how the BP saved them games. So I don't understand when you say that BP was not "postseason calibre" and that "what a bad BP did to us," because both of those things aren't true.

[ChrisS]

What did the "bad" BP cost the Jays last year? Was it even bad?

 

Overall it was good. Pretty great in the playoffs too.

[jays4life19]

What did the "bad" BP cost the Jays last year? Was it even bad?

 

It was pretty good but unlucky.

 

19/30 in FIP (3.98) but 5/30 with a 91 xFIP- and 4/30 with a 3.43 SIERA

[fatcowxlive]

Got the Jays to the ALCS, that only 2 of 15 teams got to play in?

 

Noooooooooooo sorry I mean earlier in the year last year. When Cecil was injured and Benoit wasn't acquired. I don't think we expect Grilli to put up the same numbers right? Didn't he statistically slow down the last month of the season? Benoit was a big help in our 2nd half push and we won't have him in the pen again. No Cecil, are we really going to trust Loup? We decided to use Liriano out the pen instead of Loup in the post season I don't think he's gonna magically going to improve overnight.

 

I guess the takeaway is we're gonna constantly adjust the BP like last year? Lets hope we can make magic happen.

[RealAccountant]

If you wait until just before Spring Training, guys like Moss, Pagan, Coghlan etc will come dirt cheap on 1 year deals. Getting Bautista will push us to around ~$153 million. Push that budget to $165 and you can probably get a backup C and OF. Maybe even squeeze in a bullpen arm depending on who you want to get.

 

That $165M Number is not bad, especially considering how low the long term commitment is. Most of the contracts expire in 2 or less years, with only Tulo and Martin extending beyond.

 

If this team isn't successful, it would be easy to shed at the deadline.

 

We really need to go for it. I think Navarro is the right backup catcher for this team, though I think you can roll with Pompey or Upton in LF, and allocate remainder to relief pitching.

[intentional wok]

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Sorting by WAR total, tied-9th in the AL (3.9) while throwing the fewest number of innings (464). Performed well in the SSS playoffs too, particularly in the Baltimore game, Texas Game 3, and the Cleveland series. I'd say that's solid enough that the bad BP narrative should stop.

[BTS]

Noooooooooooo sorry I mean earlier in the year last year. When Cecil was injured and Benoit wasn't acquired. I don't think we expect Grilli to put up the same numbers right? Didn't he statistically slow down the last month of the season? Benoit was a big help in our 2nd half push and we won't have him in the pen again. No Cecil, are we really going to trust Loup? We decided to use Liriano out the pen instead of Loup in the post season I don't think he's gonna magically going to improve overnight.

 

I guess the takeaway is we're gonna constantly adjust the BP like last year? Lets hope we can make magic happen.

 

Just take the L here fatcow.

[fatcowxlive]

Just take the L here fatcow.

 

Fine, but I still think the BP isn't done. Once again what I think is the FO has done an amazing job with what they had... I think there are a couple of things we need to fix here and there but like I said earlier, off-season isn't over yet and I'm confident we'll end up with a bat and a BP arm + a couple of depth moves (for starting pitching, we are lacking there) no worries here

[Orgfiller]

Got the Jays to the ALCS, that only 2 of 15 teams got to play in?

 

Furthermore, a "bad" BP didn't hurt us in the ALCS, it was poor performance from our bats largely due to excellent execution on the part of Indians pitchers

[G-Snarls]

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=al&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Jays BP

 

4th best by ERA

6th best by FIP

10th best by WAR

 

Out of 15 AL teams

 

I don't know which stat to believe

 

I guess overall it was middle of the pack

[fatcowxlive]

Furthermore, a "bad" BP didn't hurt us in the ALCS, it was poor performance from our bats largely due to excellent execution on the part of Indians pitchers

 

For the record I was talking about the period between Cecil injury and acquiring Benoit but I just re-read what Shapiro said and I missed the part where he said the BP will be a constant season long adjustment so that's a moot point

[intentional wok]

Jays BP

 

4th best by ERA

6th best by FIP

10th best by WAR

 

Out of 15 AL teams

 

I don't know which stat to believe

 

I guess overall it was middle of the pack

 

Don't get too hung up on the WAR total. Fewest IP means smallest number of opportunities to produce. Add 65-70 innings and it probably approaches Cleveland's BP (509 IP), which featured the best RP on the planet for the final two months.

[Orgfiller]

Noooooooooooo sorry I mean earlier in the year last year. When Cecil was injured and Benoit wasn't acquired. I don't think we expect Grilli to put up the same numbers right? Didn't he statistically slow down the last month of the season? Benoit was a big help in our 2nd half push and we won't have him in the pen again. No Cecil, are we really going to trust Loup? We decided to use Liriano out the pen instead of Loup in the post season I don't think he's gonna magically going to improve overnight.

 

I guess the takeaway is we're gonna constantly adjust the BP like last year? Lets hope we can make magic happen.

 

Grilli and Benoit (who was only just okay) were acquired for practically nothing. Chavez who was garbage was traded for Bolsinger. Acquiring decent BP arms is still not that hard, elite relievers are a different ballpark but we have a pretty good one in Osuna.

[RealAccountant]

Both years I felt like we were the better team, just don't understand what happened in the ALCS. 2015 Royals were lucky as f***, f***ing Donaldson raped that ball, some horrible calls, stolen homeruns, and BABIPd to death. 2016 Indians got into our hitters head. the Andrew Miller threat created a scenario whereby the had to score of the starters, and just created a viscous circle of trying to hard and failing.

 

I hate the playoffs where the relief pitchers matter so much. MLB should cap off reliever innings in the playoffs, similar to overs are capped in Cricket.

[Orgfiller]

For the record I was talking about the period between Cecil injury and acquiring Benoit but I just re-read what Shapiro said and I missed the part where he said the BP will be a constant season long adjustment so that's a moot point

 

Are you surprised that the bullpen might have performed worse than normal when an excellent reliever like Cecil went down? You're grasping at straws here bro. It's also pretty apparent from the acquisitions of Grilli, Benoit, Bolsinger etc. that the FO recognizes if there's a problem with the BP and will find a cost effective way to address the issue.

[fatcowxlive]

Are you surprised that the bullpen might have performed worse than normal when an excellent reliever like Cecil went down? You're grasping at straws here bro. It's also pretty apparent from the acquisitions of Grilli, Benoit, Bolsinger etc. that the FO recognizes if there's a problem with the BP and will find a cost effective way to address the issue.

 

That was my point! Cecil's not here anymore. I already said I'm probably overstating the issue and I'm sure they'll patch it up I have faith in him, I already took my L lol

[RealAccountant]

If we had another starting pitching option, how nasty would a bullpen with Biagini and Liriano setting up Osuna look??

[Rusty_Savage]

If we had another starting pitching option, how nasty would a bullpen with Biagini and Liriano setting up Osuna look??

 

Didn't Liriano have pretty good numbers with us starting? Don't know why everyone wants to push him to the bp. It's also a contract year for him so I couldn't see him Being too happy about it.

[Captain Adama]

Didn't Liriano have pretty good numbers with us starting? Don't know why everyone wants to push him to the bp. It's also a contract year for him so I couldn't see him Being too happy about it.

 

Liriano should be starting, the dogg is a f***ing idiot.

 

Both are two obvious and relevant facts here.

[G-Snarls]

Didn't Liriano have pretty good numbers with us starting? Don't know why everyone wants to push him to the bp. It's also a contract year for him so I couldn't see him Being too happy about it.

 

Yes

 

Plus he's making 13M

 

He's starting