General 2017 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

Spanky99 · March 28, 2017

I'm not really too clear on why so many people want Pagan aside from the fact that we'd get an excuse to re-do the most handsome list. Is he even better than Upton?

Well, if the Jays were to actually land Pagan... that'd kick Zeke to the curb and Smoak to the bench, Upton as our 4th OF'er, it improves both LF and 1B in one sweet swoop.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

Yes

Projections have them pretty much identical.

I just don't get why everyone on here despises Upton and yet clamors for Pagan, who is essentially equal.

glory · March 28, 2017

I'm not really too clear on why so many people want Pagan aside from the fact that we'd get an excuse to re-do the most handsome list. Is he even better than Upton?

Aside from 2015 he's been pretty good against rhp in his career. A platoon of him and Upton would be pretty solid. Plus it would move Pearce to first permanently so that would be an improvement as well.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

Well, if the Jays were to actually land Pagan... that'd kick Zeke to the curb and Smoak to the bench, Upton as our 4th OF'er, it improves both LF and 1B in one sweet swoop.

Carrera played 110 games last year. Good f***ing god.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

Aside from 2015 he's been pretty good against rhp in his career. A platoon of him and Upton would be pretty solid. Plus it would move Pearce to first permanently so that would be an improvement as well.

I'd be more comfortable with this idea if not for Smoak's unexplainable persistent presence on this team. Pearce is better than Pagan, so if signing him is going to cost Steve some ABs, that's where my problem lies. I think people are buying into his 2016 a bit too much.

BTS · March 28, 2017

A guaranteed MLB deal for Pagan and then then a DFA of Carrera or Smoak is such an obvious move. Frustrating that it hasn't happened.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

A guaranteed MLB deal for Pagan and then then a DFA of Carrera or Smoak is such an obvious move. Frustrating that it hasn't happened.

I'm secretly hoping that Shatkins are trying to trade for AJ Reed or Michael Conforto.

Brownie19 · March 28, 2017

I'm secretly hoping that Shatkins are trying to trade for AJ Reed or Michael Conforto.

C'mon Boxy. I'm at work and now can't move from my desk for a few minutes you bastard!

Bobthe4th · March 28, 2017

Latos did not make the team

I'm pleasantly surprised Latos has turned down his opt out and will report to AAA. Zero risk for the Jays, if he is good for the Bisons he can be called up to replace an injured player, if he isn't then he helps fill out the AAA roster.

Brownie19 · March 28, 2017

Projections have them pretty much identical.

I just don't get why everyone on here despises Upton and yet clamors for Pagan, who is essentially equal.

I'm with you on this one. I think the issue is a lot of Blue Jay fans are sick of watching people strikeout (Smoak, Upton, Martin, etc.) and feel adding guys who make more contact would help balance the offense - especially come playoff time. I think Upton's awful play after coming to TO last year has also left fans with a bitter taste in their mouth.

If you remove all bias - Pagan isn't a lot better than Upton. Between that and the possible emergence of Tellez - I think Shatkins is relatively comfortable where they sit today. If they can add Pagan on the cheap, then great - dump Zeke, if not - oh well.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

C'mon Boxy. I'm at work and now can't move from my desk for a few minutes you bastard!

Well it's not based in reality.

Hope that helps. If not, thinking about Rosie O'Donnell is almost fail-proof.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

I'm pleasantly surprised Latos has turned down his opt out and will report to AAA. Zero risk for the Jays, if he is good for the Bisons he can be called up to replace an injured player, if he isn't then he helps fill out the AAA roster.

Well, he must know at this point that he's not really ML quality. Going to a different club would end in the same scenario and at least the Jays are a good team.

Seriously, what happened to him, though? I remember when he was a budding ace. He's not even old.

Sammy225 · March 28, 2017

Well, he must know at this point that he's not really ML quality. Going to a different club would end in the same scenario and at least the Jays are a good team.

Seriously, what happened to him, though? I remember when he was a budding ace. He's not even old.

Did he not lose a lot of velocity at 1 point?

Laika · March 28, 2017

Well, he must know at this point that he's not really ML quality. Going to a different club would end in the same scenario and at least the Jays are a good team.

Seriously, what happened to him, though? I remember when he was a budding ace. He's not even old.

Maybe being grossly out of shape and a disgusting lazy blob had something to do with him losing two full scouting grades off his fastball before 30. Maybe!!!!

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

Maybe being grossly out of shape and a disgusting lazy blob had something to do with him losing two full scouting grades off his fastball before 30. Maybe!!!!

Then, in theory, it should be possible to regain that, no?

Laika · March 28, 2017

He was NINTH out of all qualified SP in fastball velocity back in 2010!!!

G-Snarls · March 28, 2017

I'm pleasantly surprised Latos has turned down his opt out and will report to AAA. Zero risk for the Jays, if he is good for the Bisons he can be called up to replace an injured player, if he isn't then he helps fill out the AAA roster.

Nice

Glad he accepted the assignment instead of opting to be cut loose

Pleasant surprise actually

Laika · March 28, 2017

Then, in theory, it should be possible to regain that, no?

Yeah, theoretically. Give the guy some gumption and a Driveline offseason and it would be interesting to see what happens.

I mean it could also be injury or mechanical decline, which can't really be fixed. IIRC he did deal with some injury scares with the Reds at one point.

LGBJ29 · March 28, 2017

Projections have them pretty much identical.

I just don't get why everyone on here despises Upton and yet clamors for Pagan, who is essentially equal.

As mentioned they would make a great Platoon. But Pagan's value against rhp is much greater than Upton or Zeke.

Upton rhp 2016: 68 wRC+ .274 wOBA

career: 93 wRC+ .311 wOBA

Pagan rhp 2016:112 wRC+ .334 wOBA

career: 107 wRC+ .328 wOBA

For a few million this is a rather large upgrade

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

Yeah, theoretically. Give the guy some gumption and a Driveline offseason and it would be interesting to see what happens.

I mean it could also be injury or mechanical decline, which can't really be fixed. IIRC he did deal with some injury scares with the Reds at one point.

He had bone chips but I'm thinking the main cause is probably his knee. Same thing happened to Jake McGee after his own knee injury. CC Sabathia too, IIRC.

I dunno s*** about s***, obviously, but I imagine having a weak base is not ideal.

Boxcar · March 28, 2017

As mentioned they would make a great Platoon. But Pagan's value against rhp is much greater than Upton or Zeke.

Upton rhp 2016: 68 wRC+ .274 wOBA
career: 93 wRC+ .311 wOBA

Pagan rhp 2016:112 wRC+ .334 wOBA
career: 107 wRC+ .328 wOBA

For a few million this is a rather large upgrade

This is a good point. I suppose it makes sense in that respect, I guess I'm being too dismissive of a tangible upgrade that is right there waiting to be signed.

The platoon situation will definitely not work in our favour, though. He is turning 36, so you'd think he'd want more time off.

Brownie19 · March 28, 2017

Well it's not based in reality.

Most arousal never is Boxy...

Brownie19 · March 28, 2017

He had bone chips but I'm thinking the main cause is probably his knee. Same thing happened to Jake McGee after his own knee injury. CC Sabathia too, IIRC.

I dunno s*** about s***, obviously, but I imagine having a weak base is not ideal.

McGee's knee is healed and he's back throwing smoke again in COL. Expect a nice bounce back for him. Hit the gym Latos - we may need you at some point. Prove everyone wrong.

TheHurl · March 28, 2017

Maybe being grossly out of shape and a disgusting lazy blob had something to do with him losing two full scouting grades off his fastball before 30. Maybe!!!!

Back in his Reds days he needed to lose 120 lbs....known as Dallas Latos. Now he just needs to actually lose 120 lbs.

RealAccountant · March 28, 2017

Coghlan has been released

LF who bats Left Handed and Good OBP. I'd trust him to do a better job platooning with Upton than Carrera.

Terminator · March 28, 2017

Coghlan has been released

LF who bats Left Handed and Good OBP. I'd trust him to do a better job platooning with Upton than Carrera.

I wonder why they released him. He'd be an upgrade over Zeke and would presumably cost the major league minimum. The Jays should take a shot.

KingKat · March 28, 2017

I wonder why they released him. He'd be an upgrade over Zeke and would presumably cost the major league minimum. The Jays should take a shot.

His positional versatility is nice. The 270 wOBA he put up in 99 games last year really isn't. Between that and this release, my guess is that there's just not much left in that bat.

Brownie19 · March 28, 2017

His positional versatility is nice. The 270 wOBA he put up in 99 games last year really isn't. Between that and this release, my guess is that there's just not much left in that bat.

wRC+ of 113 with the Cubs last year (although he looked like Ryan Goins while with the A's). 114 in 2015 and 126 in 2014.

Terminator · March 28, 2017

His positional versatility is nice. The 270 wOBA he put up in 99 games last year really isn't. Between that and this release, my guess is that there's just not much left in that bat.

He's not projected for a bad season. His numbers in ST weren't good but they weren't a complete disaster. He must just look like s*** out there I guess.