Around Baseball 2017

[Ziggyy108]

2018

 

Wade Davis 16.0

Bryan Shaw 7.5

Michael Dunn 7.0

Jake McGee 7.0

Adam Ottavino 7.0

 

44.5 million to 5 relievers.

 

Crazy. Let's trade them Stroman for a massive haul as soon as possible.

[Bobthe4th]

They've committed 106M to Davis, Shaw, and McGee over the next three seasons. 35M a year to three relievers who aren't even elite. What a terrible org.

 

TBF they had lots of payroll budget to use and they've identified they want a strengthened bullpen so have paid what they needed to in the current market. If they were using money that otherwise would have been spent on other players then sure, but overpaying in free agency in areas of need (as long as it doesn't handicap you payroll wise) isn't a unique thing.

 

They made the playoffs last year and wanted to improve. Yes they've overpaid, but that's what free agency is designed for, to compensate players for their initial years of being underpaid.

[glory]

2018

 

Wade Davis 16.0

Bryan Shaw 7.5

Michael Dunn 7.0

Jake McGee 7.0

Adam Ottavino 7.0

 

44.5 million to 5 relievers.

 

Crazy. Let's trade them Osuna for a massive haul as soon as possible.

 

Fixed.

[Bobthe4th]

2018

 

Wade Davis 16.0

Bryan Shaw 7.5

Michael Dunn 7.0

Jake McGee 7.0

Adam Ottavino 7.0

 

44.5 million to 5 relievers.

 

Crazy. Let's trade them Stroman for a massive haul as soon as possible.

 

That doesn't really follow, as they'd have to give up assets for Stroman. They've shown they are willing to overpay in dollars, but not in prospects.

[glory]

TBF they had lots of payroll budget to use and they've identified they want a strengthened bullpen so have paid what they needed to in the current market. If they were using money that otherwise would have been spent on other players then sure, but overpaying in free agency in areas of need (as long as it doesn't handicap you payroll wise) isn't a unique thing.

 

They made the playoffs last year and wanted to improve. Yes they've overpaid, but that's what free agency is designed for, to compensate players for their initial years of being underpaid.

 

The bullpen is the last place a team should be allocating so much money. If you can sign a Chapman or Jansen or Miller type, then that's understandable, but there's a chance that half of those guys they signed turn into s*** next season and it wouldn't be a surprise. That's how volatile the pen is.

[TheHurl]

They've committed 106M to Davis, Shaw, and McGee over the next three seasons. 35M a year to three relievers who aren't even elite. What a terrible org.

 

They also have a 2 year competition window and zero ability to attract a FA pitcher who isn't in their last contract though. I don't think they are as much stupid as handcuffed and not smart enough to figure it all out. They have zero depth IMO unless Rodgers is ready. I take it back though...the Desmond move was just flat out stupid. If he returns to above replacement level I like their team without injuries...but relying on injury free seasons is too AA

[Bobthe4th]

The bullpen is the last place a team should be allocating so much money. If you can sign a Chapman or Jansen or Miller type, then that's understandable, but there's a chance that half of those guys they signed turn into s*** next season and it wouldn't be a surprise. That's how volatile the pen is.

 

Ideally yes, but if that's your area of need and you don't want to give up assets, and you have the payroll room then why not go for it? They've decided it gives them the best chance of improving. Can't really blame them for that.

[jb22]

Yeah I think 5/10 is a tad low but I agree with the sentiment.

 

Holy f***, if you're going to be this helpless and delicate, maybe being involved in a heavily male dominated sport/field isn't for you? Is this not common sense?

 

I'm tired of seeing these stories where the woman never utters an objection and the men involved are supposed to read their minds. I really have a hard time believing that he squeezed her wrist so hard that it hurt the next day, lol, f*** off.

 

No doubt super hero Rob Manfred will swoop in to save all the women, though. I bet Sano gets 20 games and no legal action against him whatsoever.

 

Also, apparently, teams and affiliates need to stop hiring women.

 

Never utters an objection? She clearly states she said no multiple times maybe you can't read.

 

Or maybe you just assume all sexual assault accusations are lies?

 

Pretty stupid to say she didn't utter an objection when she says she did, unless of course you were there.

 

Just because some women make false accusations doesn't mean this s*** doesn't happen, regularly. Your want to dismiss every claim because of a few gold digging whores?

[Bobthe4th]

They also have a 2 year competition window and zero ability to attract a FA pitcher who isn't in their last contract though. I don't think they are as much stupid as handcuffed and not smart enough to figure it all out. They have zero depth IMO unless Rodgers is ready. I take it back though...the Desmond move was just flat out stupid. If he returns to above replacement level I like their team without injuries...but relying on injury free seasons is too AA

 

The Desmond move was way over criticised at the time IMO - they didn't give him a 5 year contract to play 1B for 5 years, and $70m isn't that much when compared with some other deals (by the way although I seem to be defending them a lot ITT I'm not a secret Rockies fan haha)

[BTS]

They also have a 2 year competition window and zero ability to attract a FA pitcher who isn't in their last contract though. I don't think they are as much stupid as handcuffed and not smart enough to figure it all out. They have zero depth IMO unless Rodgers is ready. I take it back though...the Desmond move was just flat out stupid. If he returns to above replacement level I like their team without injuries...but relying on injury free seasons is too AA

 

I would have liked to see them spend the money on more bats. As you say, they lack depth - Rodgers is projected as their 6th best position player. They have no 1B. They're thin in the OF after Blackmon and maybe Dahl. Signing one of Santana/Alonso/LoMo and one of Cain/Dyson would have made a lot more sense to me than blowing their wad on relievers. Hell, if they had money to burn, Dahl + for Yelich and Chen would have been a good fit.

[Bobthe4th]

I would have liked to see them spend the money on more bats. As you say, they lack depth - Rodgers is projected as their 6th best position player. They have no 1B. They're thin in the OF after Blackmon and maybe Dahl. Signing one of Santana/Alonso/LoMo and one of Cain/Dyson would have made a lot more sense to me than blowing their wad on relievers. Hell, if they had money to burn, Dahl + for Yelich and Chen would have been a good fit.

 

Even if they have spent all of their money, there are still numerous 1Bs on the market that will likely be available on cheap deals.

[BTS]

Even if they have spent all of their money, there are still numerous 1Bs on the market that will likely be available on cheap deals.

 

I don't think that's really true. I see Hosmer, Morrison, and Duda left. Morrison probably costs close to 10M a year.

[Boxcar]

Never utters an objection? She clearly states she said no multiple times maybe you can't read.

 

Or maybe you just assume all sexual assault accusations are lies?

 

Pretty stupid to say she didn't utter an objection when she says she did, unless of course you were there.

 

Just because some women make false accusations doesn't mean this s*** doesn't happen, regularly. Your want to dismiss every claim because of a few gold digging whores?

 

I don't assume anything, and I don't automatically believe the victim because I believe in something called due process. I have a real issue with women who go on twitter or Instagram to air out their stories, though. The police exist.

 

I won't be so dismissive once they start using the proper channels, because when they do it this way it sure looks awfully fishy.

 

Also, with the objection thing I was referring to her being dragged to the Apple store and stuff.

[P2F]

I don't think that's really true. I see Hosmer, Morrison, and Duda left. Morrison probably costs close to 10M a year.

 

Duda could beast in Colorado for a couple years.

[Orgfiller]

I would have liked to see them spend the money on more bats. As you say, they lack depth - Rodgers is projected as their 6th best position player. They have no 1B. They're thin in the OF after Blackmon and maybe Dahl. Signing one of Santana/Alonso/LoMo and one of Cain/Dyson would have made a lot more sense to me than blowing their wad on relievers. Hell, if they had money to burn, Dahl + for Yelich and Chen would have been a good fit.

 

This exactly. At the price they paid for their relievers they could have acquired the best 1B option available AND Lorenzo Cain to cover their biggest holes, those are significant upgrades, signing a bunch of relievers, none of whom are necessarily elite, is not.

[Bobthe4th]

I don't think that's really true. I see Hosmer, Morrison, and Duda left. Morrison probably costs close to 10M a year.

 

Any of Napoli, Adrian Gonzalez, Lind, Pedro Alvarez, Chris Carter, plus Bautista could end up taking a low cost 1 or 2 year deal.

 

Obviously none of those players are elite, but I'm not sure overpaying to secure someone like Hosmer would have been in the Rockies best interests either.

[BTS]

Any of Napoli, Adrian Gonzalez, Lind, Pedro Alvarez, Chris Carter, plus Bautista could end up taking a low cost 1 or 2 year deal.

 

Obviously none of those players are elite, but I'm not sure overpaying to secure someone like Hosmer would have been in the Rockies best interests either.

 

Yeah, but those guys all suck.

[burlingtonbandit]

I could easily see Colorado only winning 75 games. Seems to be one of the last few FO in MLB that hasn't caught up analytics wise.

 

Baltimore, Miami and SF might be the only other ones off the top of my head.

[Boxcar]

This exactly. At the price they paid for their relievers they could have acquired the best 1B option available AND Lorenzo Cain to cover their biggest holes, those are significant upgrades, signing a bunch of relievers, none of whom are necessarily elite, is not.

 

I'm not really understanding why there's a debate here...the Rockies blowing their load on relievers when they have lots of other holes that need to be filled doesn't deserve to be defended. Not like this org has a history of being smart and savvy either.

[Orgfiller]

Any of Napoli, Adrian Gonzalez, Lind, Pedro Alvarez, Chris Carter, plus Bautista could end up taking a low cost 1 or 2 year deal.

 

Obviously none of those players are elite, but I'm not sure overpaying to secure someone like Hosmer would have been in the Rockies best interests either.

 

All of the players you just mentioned are replacement level and 4 of them were significantly below replacement last season. That's not how you upgrade a glaring hole in the team.

[Bobthe4th]

All of the players you just mentioned are replacement level and 4 of them were significantly below replacement last season. That's not how you upgrade a glaring hole in the team.

 

On a low risk deal any of them could have a good year, and when the alternatives are massively overpaying someone like Hosmer on a much longer deal than any of their relievers got, I'd target someone like Lind for them at least.

[BTS]

On a low risk deal any of them could have a good year, and when the alternatives are massively overpaying someone like Hosmer on a much longer deal than any of their relievers got, I'd target someone like Lind for them at least.

 

You can say the same about a lot of relievers still available. Two of Cain/Santana/Hosmer/Dyson/Morrison/Alonso + a couple of cheap relievers makes them better than Davis/McGee/Shaw + a couple of cheap bats.

[Bobthe4th]

You can say the same about a lot of relievers still available. Two of Cain/Santana/Hosmer/Dyson/Morrison/Alonso + a couple of cheap relievers makes them better than Davis/McGee/Shaw + a couple of cheap bats.

 

Sure, but you can't know that they'd be able to sign two of Cain/Santana/Hosmer/Dyson/Morrison/Alonso and even if you assume they could have, the overall money and contract lengths would have almost certainly been higher if Cain or Hosmer were included.

 

Both approaches have risk, but most of the risk is monetary. They have the salary room so IMO the distinction between which method they used is a lot closer than you think. Neither mortgages the future (as no prospects are given up) and they obviously felt that the bullpen was a bigger need than 1B when compared to free agent solutions.

[Terminator]

How do the Rockies spend 100 million and not end up with a guy like Cain or similar talent? He's a great fit there. It's so dumb it hurts. I told the Monforts to give me a job but they refused. Probably because Dick's ex-wife is a client. Of course all my dumbass Rockie-fan friends are praising the moves. Dumbest fanbase in baseball. They make your average Blue Jays fan look like Bill James.

[Terminator]

Factor in Desmond last year and the Rockies have spent 170 million on 4 guys who might never put up even a 2 WAR season. Yikes.

[BTS]

How do the Rockies spend 100 million and not end up with a guy like Cain or similar talent? He's a great fit there. It's so dumb it hurts. I told the Monforts to give me a job but they refused. Probably because Dick's ex-wife is a client. Of course all my dumbass Rockie-fan friends are praising the moves. Dumbest fanbase in baseball. They make your average Blue Jays fan look like Bill James.

 

You'd think the disastrous signings of Dunn, Motte, and Qualls in recent years would clue people in to the fact the multi-year free agent contracts for non-elite relievers tend to be a terrible way to spend money. They only relief deal that's worked out was a 1/6 contract to Holland.

[BTS]

Factor in Desmond last year and the Rockies have spent 170 million on 4 guys who might never put up even a 2 WAR season. Yikes.

 

Also, Gerardo Parra is 2 years into a 3/27.5 deal and has been worth -0.9 fWAR. Another $30M set on fire. That was weird from the start, as he had been worth just 0.6 fWAR over 1200 PA in the previous two seasons before signing his deal.

[Terminator]

You'd think the disastrous signings of Dunn, Motte, and Qualls in recent years would clue people in to the fact the multi-year free agent contracts for non-elite relievers tend to be a terrible way to spend money. They only relief deal that's worked out was a 1/6 contract to Holland.

 

Yep. It's pretty frustrating too because the team finally has a good core and ownership is willing to spend. The two rarely converge like this but they are f***ing it up.

[Abomination]

I know Wade Davis is awesome, but the Rockies are paying him 17.3M per year AND forfeit their 2nd round pick in the draft. This does not seem wise.

[Orgfiller]

I know Wade Davis is awesome, but the Rockies are paying him 17.3M per year AND forfeit their 2nd round pick in the draft. This does not seem wise.

 

I hadn't even considered the qualifying offer that Davis had attached to him. Makes the deal even more egregious.