Indians sign Encarnacion

[Captain Adama]

That's what shi said in his article. I don't think he'd write it if a source didn't confirm it.

 

There's your problem right there.

[Gary]

Shi Davidi's article. He could just be making stuff up to mess with the fan base.

Shi is 100% credible. Your claim is preposterous.

[wk680]

The thing that bothers me is they didn't go to ee's camp just prior to the morales signing and say you have to make a decision now or we have a player we are going to sign that will likely close off a potential return

 

The article does say there was discussion with EE camp the day before the Morales deal was signed "but there are no substantive talks". They may have warned him then that the window was about to close. Sounds like Jays FO were aggressive to get something done up front, and he wanted to wait and see if he could squeeze another $10-20M out of a deal with someone else and give the Jays the opportunity to match. I don't blame the Jays for closing quick on the Morales deal. I am sure they were highly attracted by him being a switch hitter with excellent splits (career SLG of .439 RH and .476 LH). Also has career .294 BA with RISP and career .264 BA in 'high leverage' ABs.

[admin]

I agree with I think it was Governator who yesterday said the Jays made a decent offer, but did so knowing EE wouldn't take it. They didn't really want EE at $20M, but they make EE and his agent the bad guy because $20M was more than fair offer. Quite brilliant.

[L54]

Well like intentional wok countered, playing chicken with 80M isn't the best idea either. They put their best foot forward out of the gate and didn't beat around the bush. 3/54 with an option year would've seemed more gimmicky than 4/80.

[canadiansportsjunkie]

I wouldn't keep waiting either if I felt my plan B was much better then C or D

[GD]

Is Morales on 3/33 THAT much worse than Edwin on 3/65? Obviously it's worse, but I don't think we'll really notice much of a difference if we allocate the $10m we save properly.

[Laika]

Is Morales on 3/33 THAT much worse than Edwin on 3/65? Obviously it's worse, but I don't think we'll really notice much of a difference if we allocate the $10m we save properly.

 

It's pretty bad tbh

 

They slightly overpaid a mediocre DH and then watched a vastly superior one with sentimental ties get underpaid by like 30% of his predicted cost

 

Tough pill. Steve Pearce is better than Morales though so that helps soften the blow

[Gary]

After seeing Morales spray chart, I'm excited to see what he can do as a Jay next season.

 

Look at it this way:

 

Morales + $9 million + draft pick

 

OR

 

EE

 

Emotionally, I prefer EE. But logically, they're pretty close and Shartkins likely see more value in the Morales package.

[glory]

Well like intentional wok countered, playing chicken with 80M isn't the best idea either. They put their best foot forward out of the gate and didn't beat around the bush. 3/54 with an option year would've seemed more gimmicky than 4/80.

 

Yeah if it was really 4/80 with an option to bring it up to 5/100, then that would be a foolish thing to offer to someone you didn't want to bring back, even if you felt he would turn it down. I think more likely they knew they'd get outbid but gave him their best offer anyway in case he wanted to sign. When he didn't, they moved on quickly.

 

Morales, Pearce, Guirrel, and a pick instead of Edwin is fine with me.

[xposbrad]

Yeah if it was really 4/80 with an option to bring it up to 5/100, then that would be a foolish thing to offer to someone you didn't want to bring back, even if you felt he would turn it down. I think more likely they knew they'd get outbid but gave him their best offer anyway in case he wanted to sign. When he didn't, they moved on quickly.

Morales, Pearce, Guirrel, and a pick instead of Edwin is fine with me.

 

Except if you are trying to win this year. There was money for Pearce + EE . Alvarez/Trumbo/Beltran/JB/Holliday/EE , there was an abundance of 1b/ DH guys, and had they waited, they wouldn't have needed to offer Morales 3/33, they probably could have had him at 2/20. Look at the teams signing these guys, none of them want middle aged DH guys signed too long. The gamble backfired.

[glory]

Except if you are trying to win this year. There was money for Pearce + EE . Alvarez/Trumbo/Beltran/JB/Holliday/EE , there was an abundance of 1b/ DH guys, and had they waited, they wouldn't have needed to offer Morales 3/33, they probably could have had him at 2/20. Look at the teams signing these guys, none of them want middle aged DH guys signed too long. The gamble backfired.

 

Edwin and Pearce would have cost $10m more than Morales/Pearce, so it might have impacted who they could have gotten for the outfield. That remains to be seen since they haven't fixed those holes yet.

[jays_fever]

The sentences "except if you're trying to win this year" and "missing our opportunity to win" are cringe worthy

[Boxcar]

Is Morales on 3/33 THAT much worse than Edwin on 3/65? Obviously it's worse, but I don't think we'll really notice much of a difference if we allocate the $10m we save properly.

 

Well, we can hope that the RC plays to Morales' strength where Kauffman didn't and maybe he will blow past his projections.

 

I'm less pissed off with them signing Morales and more about them signing Smoak when there was absolutely no need to. Even if you think he's going to break out or something, no one is going to pay him out the ass for half a season of good play vs. a whole career of shittiness. Now, Gibby talks about platooning Pearce who is both a much better hitter vs. righties and a superior fielder simply because Smoak is still on the team.

 

I mean, 2 smoaks + Morales make more than EE for pretty much the same number of years. It's retarded.

[saskjayfan]

After seeing Morales spray chart, I'm excited to see what he can do as a Jay next season.

 

Look at it this way:

 

Morales + $9 million + draft pick

 

OR

 

EE

 

Emotionally, I prefer EE. But logically, they're pretty close and Shartkins likely see more value in the Morales package.

 

I would be comparing 4.25 mil to smoak + 16 mil + draft pick to Edwin. The team could have had both Edwin and morales on the team for three years. It's not like one of them couldn't have been traded for the final year or year and a half.

[saskjayfan]

Edwin and Pearce would have cost $10m more than Morales/Pearce, so it might have impacted who they could have gotten for the outfield. That remains to be seen since they haven't fixed those holes yet.

 

They wouldn't spend on ee, they wouldn't spend on fowler. They will never spend in free agency.

[saskjayfan]

Yeah if it was really 4/80 with an option to bring it up to 5/100, then that would be a foolish thing to offer to someone you didn't want to bring back, even if you felt he would turn it down. I think more likely they knew they'd get outbid but gave him their best offer anyway in case he wanted to sign. When he didn't, they moved on quickly.

 

Morales, Pearce, Guirrel, and a pick instead of Edwin is fine with me.

 

There was money for all four especially when Edwin came down to 3 years. Even Jonah Keri thougt not signing Edwin was dumn.

[Stangstag]

They wouldn't spend on ee, they wouldn't spend on fowler. They will never spend in free agency.

 

They were willing to spend on Fowler... Cardinals just offered more.

[saskjayfan]

They were willing to spend on Fowler... Cardinals just offered more.

 

4 years 60. Please if you have a chance to win and you can't go from 15 to 16.5 and the extra year you were never really in on the player. Fowler will be a very moveable piece. You can trade him in two years. Friedman said if your rational in free agency you always finish 3rd. A Cleveland fan on MLB radio phoned in a couple days ago and said that It had been 15+ years and Shapiro had finally helped Cleveland get a marquee free agent. Shapiro is cheap

[glory]

They wouldn't spend on ee, they wouldn't spend on fowler. They will never spend in free agency.

 

Signing Happ, Estrada, Morales, Pearce, and Guirrel count as spending on free agents. They won't spend more money than they are comfortable spending, which might take them out of the running on players like Fowler when other teams offer 5 or more years, but who the hell wants Fowler for five+ years? I thought Martin was a good signing and the Jays couldn't give him away for free at this point with 3/60 left on his deal. Free agent contracts more often than not suck to the high heavens, especially when the player is on the wrong side of 30. On a 2-3 year deal you could live with it, and I would have lived with Edwin for that amount of years, but they moved on before his market crashed. Stuff happens. Spending that much money on two DH's wouldn't make any sense. Once they signed Morales, it was a wrap for Edwin.

[Abomination]

Signing Happ, Estrada, Morales, Pearce, and Guirrel count as spending on free agents. They won't spend more money than they are comfortable spending, which might take them out of the running on players like Fowler when other teams offer 5 or more years, but who the hell wants Fowler for five+ years? I thought Martin was a good signing and the Jays couldn't give him away for free at this point with 3/60 left on his deal. Free agent contracts more often than not suck to the high heavens, especially when the player is on the wrong side of 30. On a 2-3 year deal you could live with it, and I would have lived with Edwin for that amount of years, but they moved on before his market crashed. Stuff happens. Spending that much money on two DH's wouldn't make any sense. Once they signed Morales, it was a wrap for Edwin.

 

Martin has produced 5.4 war in his first 2 years of the deal, and was very good in the 2nd half last year after a horrible first half. He's earning the paycheck so far.

[glory]

Martin has produced 5.4 war in his first 2 years of the deal, and was very good in the 2nd half last year after a horrible first half. He's earning the paycheck so far.

 

He still has 3/60 left from ages 34-36, though. The first two years he made 2/22. McCann had 2/34 left on his deal and the Yankees had to chip in $11m when trading him. Martin is not a movable piece, which was my point.

[Atothe]

Why would Martin be moved? The Jays have nothing in terms of catching prospects (insert "Jays catcher of the future joke here"). Jays had one decent catcher in the last 15 years and that was Greg Zaun. I'd rather stick with the old man

[Atothe]

And This is AA's fault. Who backloads a free agent contract for an aging catcher?

[Frenchsoup]

And This is AA's fault. Who backloads a free agent contract for an aging catcher?

 

So you wouldn't have signed Martin?

[jays_fever]

And This is AA's fault. Who backloads a free agent contract for an aging catcher?

 

Someone who had failed pretty hard for multiple years and wanted to win at all cost?

 

But Shapiro is the problem lol

[Atothe]

Someone who had failed pretty hard for multiple years and wanted to win at all cost?

 

But Shapiro is the problem lol

 

I would have tried to but for less money and definitely not backloaded. That is idiocy

[Brownie19]

I would have tried to but for less money and definitely not backloaded. That is idiocy

 

Then you probably wouldn't have signed him and we probably wouldn't have been a playoff team the past 2 years. We had a legit shot at winning the WS the past 2 years. I'm not trading that for anything.

 

The issue is - the way we built the contender isn't sustainable....now we have to make the necessary adjustments.

 

Here's hoping Russell is healthy this year. I expect a mild rebound with the bat (wRC+ in the 105-110 range) and for him to be solid defensively.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Brownie19

[jays_fever]

I would have tried to but for less money and definitely not backloaded. That is idiocy

 

If he doesn't backload that contract he couldnt have made any some of the other moves he did. I don't agree with the rationale, but it's pretty common among GM's who are on a short leash and don't always have a next year anyway

[RealAccountant]

Without Martin we probably don't make the playoffs in either years. his impact is beyond the numbers

 

Even at 20 Mil he is projected to provide surplus value