Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[Spanky99]

What I am annoyed by is that the offers they seem to put forth (and we seem to hear about them all) are low enough that they know they will not be accepted (or at least they should realize they won't). Fowler seemed to be a guy they really wanted who fit the bill for what they are looking for and they offer him 4 years $60 million, but not enough to get the job done. If they had ponied up to the $18 million per year that was his asking price they possibly could have sealed the deal earlier before the Cards were in the picture. With EE they knew he wouldn't accept 4yrs $80 million w/o testing the market. His market is down and you could probably get him for that or less now, but I honestly don't think the intent was to ever have him back. We will make up for his production with 3 Steve Pearce's instead.

 

What if the Jays did and Fowler took the Cards over the Jays? LOL at the EE comments, your tinfoil hat is killing it, bro.

[TheHurl]

It was a total of 5 million between the two seasons so it's less than that either way. Maybe someone can find the true breakdown, but it doesn't matter much to me what payroll is as long as we get the right players.

 

Jays paid nothing last year. $5M this year.

[reedjohnsonfan]

So you're annoyed at the idea of another team being willing to offer more money to a free agent than Toronto is. Why would that annoy you? It's how free agency works. You place a value on a player, and hope that you can land him. Sometimes you get your guy: Happ, Estrada, Gurriel, Morales, Pearce. Sometimes you don't: Encarnacion (so far), Fowler, probably many others.

 

He's saying (I think) that they shouldn't be wasting their resources/time bidding on a player that they should realize won't accept their offer, which is quite valid.

[Spanky99]

Jays paid nothing last year. $5M this year.

 

I've tried to tell him this, even posted the information.

[burlingtonbandit]

Remember a few years ago when people wanted Ubaldo Jimenez? Or how about Prince Fielder? If you have a contract limit in mind, don't get caught up in the moment and blow past that otherwise mistakes are made. FA contracts usually turn out bad. Fowler at $80-90M+ the 22nd pick in the draft is terrible value.

[burlingtonbandit]

Jays paid nothing last year. $5M this year.

 

Where is this reported? I thought Shi said its only 1M this year the rest was last year.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Remember a few years ago when people wanted Ubaldo Jimenez? Or how about Prince Fielder? If you have a contract limit in mind, don't get caught up in the moment and blow past that otherwise mistakes are made. FA contracts usually turn out bad. Fowler at $80-90M+ the 22nd pick in the draft is terrible value.

 

Proof? Reasonable Evidence?

[RealAccountant]

Any idea on what the payroll is ? It's at least $160?

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

He's saying (I think) that they shouldn't be wasting their resources/time bidding on a player that they should realize won't accept their offer, which is quite valid.

It's just to appease the casuals. " we tried " Having said that, i didn't want Fowler for 5 seasons.

[BTS]

He's saying (I think) that they shouldn't be wasting their resources/time bidding on a player that they should realize won't accept their offer, which is quite valid.

 

I agree with that. I just think that assuming the team made offers in bad faith based on the information available is basically just looking for a way to vent frustration.

[BTS]

Proof? Reasonable Evidence?

 

lmao

[Santoki]

What I am annoyed by is that the offers they seem to put forth (and we seem to hear about them all) are low enough that they know they will not be accepted (or at least they should realize they won't). Fowler seemed to be a guy they really wanted who fit the bill for what they are looking for and they offer him 4 years $60 million, but not enough to get the job done. If they had ponied up to the $18 million per year that was his asking price they possibly could have sealed the deal earlier before the Cards were in the picture. With EE they knew he wouldn't accept 4yrs $80 million w/o testing the market. His market is down and you could probably get him for that or less now, but I honestly don't think the intent was to ever have him back. We will make up for his production with 3 Steve Pearce's instead.

 

Considering EE's market right now, how can you say that the offer was disingenuous?

[RogersCanSuckMyBlank]

Any idea on what the payroll is ? It's at least $160?

 

Nobody knows for sure, but i wouldn't count on it.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I agree with that. I just think that assuming the team made offers in bad faith based on the information available is basically just looking for a way to vent frustration.

 

In general I agree. They do need some sort of PR management, so it's possible.

 

I was more of belief that they were wrong on guessing the final contract for Fowler, which is a mistake on their part- albeit common among teams.

[Nafro]

$167.5M is plenty ( they won't reach that) but they still don't spend up to there capabilities. Share holders matter more obviously.

 

Ummm not to sound condescending, but you do know the general idea of a Corporation right?

[glory]

I like how the Jays offered Edwin a contract that apparently no other team is willing to give him a month later and that was an example of the Jays being cheap. Oh wait, they knew he'd turn it down, so they offered him $20 f***ing million a year to a DH in his mid-30's as a token offer. Sounds about right. The other argument is the Jays need to worry about short-term....but that was the whole point of signing Morales and Pearce. Those guys are in their 30's. They surely were not signed for some long-term plan. You can disagree with signing them from a talent standpoint, but the goal is exactly the same.

 

Free agents are free to sign wherever they want. Some go for the money, some go for the destination, some go for the environment, some go for the chance to win, etc. The Jays made offers to two key free agents and one was beaten substantially (Fowler) and we'll see with the other one (EE). That's free agency. If you don't get your guy at the price you want, then you move on. That's what happened here.

[burlingtonbandit]

Proof? Reasonable Evidence?

 

Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Jason Heyward, Jiminez, like I you could go on forever. When you think of great FA long term deals there aren't many..

 

Zobrist, Holliday, Miller, Martin?

[Jonn]

Proof? Reasonable Evidence?

 

More interested in reasonable doubt. Everyone wanted Prince. Casuals wanted Ubaldo. Bobcat started that movement.

[Grant77]

Jays paid nothing last year. $5M this year.

 

That definitely isn't what was reported at the time of the trade. I don't know what's correct, but there's conflicting information.

[BTS]

I like how the Jays offered Edwin a contract that apparently no other team is willing to give him a month later and that was an example of the Jays being cheap. Oh wait, they knew he'd turn it down, so they offered him $20 f***ing million a year to a DH in his mid-30's as a token offer. Sounds about right. The other argument is the Jays need to worry about short-term....but that was the whole point of signing Morales and Pearce. Those guys are in their 30's. They surely were not signed for some long-term plan. You can disagree with signing them from a talent standpoint, but the goal is exactly the same.

 

Free agents are free to sign wherever they want. Some go for the money, some go for the destination, some go for the environment, some go for the chance to win, etc. The Jays made offers to two key free agents and one was beaten substantially (Fowler) and we'll see with the other one (EE). That's free agency. If you don't get your guy at the price you want, then you move on. That's what happened here.

 

No, you're wrong. If you don't get your guy at the price you want your offer was made in bad faith and Rogers is cheap and should die.

[TBJ12]

Where is this reported? I thought Shi said its only 1M this year the rest was last year.

 

I seem to remember hearing something about the Jays paying most of Upton's salary last season as well.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Jason Heyward, Jiminez, like I you could go on forever. When you think of great FA long term deals there aren't many..

 

Zobrist, Holliday, Miller, Martin?

 

So you named a bunch of players with bad contracts, how is that reasonable evidence? That's a really small sample size considering how many players have been free agents. Do you have some study that has shown some sort of evidence free agents are a bad idea? People are just making that theory up, considering they don't know team values etc.

[Laika]

So you named a bunch of players with bad contracts, how is that reasonable evidence? That's a really small sample size considering how many players have been free agents. Do you have some study that has shown some sort of evidence free agents are a bad idea? People are just making that theory up, considering they don't know team values etc.

 

This is silly.

 

In general, FA contracts are neutral. That's how we determine what the market value of a win is!!! We look at the cost of wins on the free agent market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[reedjohnsonfan]

More interested in reasonable doubt. Everyone wanted Prince. Casuals wanted Ubaldo. Bobcat started that movement.

 

My point is that it's a stupid topic to even consider talking about. There's no legit evidence (and nor can their be) that signing free agents is a bad idea.

 

/discussion

[Spanky99]

I seem to remember hearing something about the Jays paying most of Upton's salary last season as well.

 

No, the Padres paid the majority of the contract, it's right here... we owe him 5 million this year.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-verge-acquiring-melvin-upton-jr-padres/

 

SHI DAVIDI JULY 26, 2016, 3:45 PM

TORONTO – The Toronto Blue Jays acquired outfielder Melvin Upton Jr., and the money to cover the vast majority of the nearly $22 million he’s still owed from the San Diego Padres on Tuesday for rookie-ball right-hander Hansel Rodriguez in a trade designed to add depth, speed and versatility to the roster.

 

Talks between the clubs started when Jose Bautista hit the disabled list with turf toe June 17, but only reached fruition when they settled on the financial component. Upton is due the roughly third remaining on his $15.45 million salary this year plus another $16.45 million in 2017, and the Padres will reportedly cover $17 million of that.

[reedjohnsonfan]

This is silly.

 

In general, FA contracts are neutral. That's how we determine what the market value of a win is!!! We look at the cost of wins on the free agent market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

agree it is silly

[BTS]

No, the Padres paid the majority of the contract, it's right here... we owe him 5 million this year.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-verge-acquiring-melvin-upton-jr-padres/

 

SHI DAVIDI JULY 26, 2016, 3:45 PM

TORONTO – The Toronto Blue Jays acquired outfielder Melvin Upton Jr., and the money to cover the vast majority of the nearly $22 million he’s still owed from the San Diego Padres on Tuesday for rookie-ball right-hander Hansel Rodriguez in a trade designed to add depth, speed and versatility to the roster.

 

Talks between the clubs started when Jose Bautista hit the disabled list with turf toe June 17, but only reached fruition when they settled on the financial component. Upton is due the roughly third remaining on his $15.45 million salary this year plus another $16.45 million in 2017, and the Padres will reportedly cover $17 million of that.

 

I remember reading that the 5M was under the 2016 budget, and he basically has no salary in 2017, and multiple other posters also remember reading it.

[nutz003]

So you're annoyed at the idea of another team being willing to offer more money to a free agent than Toronto is. Why would that annoy you? It's how free agency works. You place a value on a player, and hope that you can land him. Sometimes you get your guy: Happ, Estrada, Gurriel, Morales, Pearce. Sometimes you don't: Encarnacion (so far), Fowler, probably many others.

 

No, I am annoyed at the fact that there seems to be no killer instinct with Shatkins. Toronto generally does have to overpay to get guys to come here, so at this point if there is a player they want then yes I think they have to go a bit over the top to get them. There is after all no salary cap in MLB, just the one that ownership and management imposes, which Atkins keeps saying $ is not an issue to fill their needs. We should be in on things like going after a Kenly Jansen, because at this point if you acquire a guy like that you know when the game hits the 8th inning it is over with him and Osuna, and the other team knows it is over too. I don't think it is fair to this fanbase if we take a step back this coming season. I feel like a number of the people here either were too young to remember or not born when the Jays won their 2 Championships, because if they had experienced the euphoria of those victories and understood what it was like to see their team win a World Series they would understand that the opportunity in front of us the next couple of seasons is not something to be squandered. 1 World Series victory would be worth having to start over and build up for the next several seasons. Anyone who says otherwise has never experienced this team winning one before.

[Spanky99]

That definitely isn't what was reported at the time of the trade. I don't know what's correct, but there's conflicting information.

 

I showed you already? Plus the other link, I just posted above.

[burlingtonbandit]

So you named a bunch of players with bad contracts, how is that reasonable evidence? That's a really small sample size considering how many players have been free agents. Do you have some study that has shown some sort of evidence free agents are a bad idea? People are just making that theory up, considering they don't know team values etc.

 

I'm saying long term deals >4 years.