Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[Terminator]

I'd go close to 100M over five years for Chapman or Jansen if payroll goes to 160+. Those guys can be worth like 3-5 wins over a season. Also, the fan in me loves watching elite relievers.

 

I agree with you. Just leave Osuna as the CL and then use one of those two as the fireman. Come playoff time just pitch them almost every single game.

 

RP get hurt a lot less often too, don't they? Could be a better investment from an injury risk standpoint.

[fatcowxlive]

I'd go close to 100M over five years for Chapman or Jansen if payroll goes to 160+. Those guys can be worth like 3-5 wins over a season. Also, the fan in me loves watching elite relievers.

 

Not Jansen, he's gonna cost us a pick + the Dodgers will probably outbid us. We'll take Chapman

[intentional wok]

I meet grandmothers IRL who hate Brett Cecil.

 

I'm not exactly sure what he did to gain so many haters.

 

He was on the s*** end of a lot of losses to start the season. Tough to flip that perception.

 

0-5 leaving April, then went on the DL two weeks later and didn't return for almost two months.

[jaysblue]

Did anyone read the Dave Cameron article on Fangraphs?

[Bobthe4th]

I'd go close to 100M over five years for Chapman or Jansen if payroll goes to 160+. Those guys can be worth like 3-5 wins over a season. Also, the fan in me loves watching elite relievers.

 

That is insane money for a reliever.

 

But I actually think you're right Chapman could get close to that.

[Terminator]

Did anyone read the Dave Cameron article on FanGraphs?

 

You'll have to tell me which one he's written thousands.

[Laika]

This thread should be retitled The Offseason SIGN ERIC THAMES AT ALL COSTS Thread IMO

[Laika]

You'll have to tell me which one he's written thousands.

 

"The Blue Jays Should Rebuild" I think

[KingKat]

Nanas hate Cecil in part because his greatest success has come in middle relief and some of his worst stretches have come as a closer. There's also an overweighing of some rough stretches in 2016 due to recency bias.

[G-Snarls]

What does everyone think about EE playing 1B full time? At least for the first year or two of his deal? He doesn't seem THAT bad to me.

 

He's OK at 1B no issue

[jaysblue]

Prado is 32 and got 3 years and 40 million via an extension and not free agency. Multiple teams would have interest in Fowler on a 3 year deal, but you would have to think someone will give him a 4th to get him. He's coming off two very good years, and just put up a 5 win season.

 

He definitely can get a 4th year, wouldn't shock me in this market. Though he's not a guy I'd feel comfortable with handing that type of money to + a top draft pick. He likely won't produce another season close to 5 WAR again. He struggled a bit offensively in the second half of this season and he does strikeout a lot. Though yeah, I think he'd be a great fit for the top of the lineup in terms of what he brings to the table: switch-hitter, gap power, gets on-base, can play all 3 outfield positions, and can lead-off.

[jaysblue]

You'll have to tell me which one he's written thousands.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-blue-jays-should-rebuild/

[Brownie19]

Not Jansen, he's gonna cost us a pick + the Dodgers will probably outbid us. We'll take Chapman

 

We were looking for a LOOGY all year too. 2 bird - 1 stone!

[jaysblue]

I agree with you. Just leave Osuna as the CL and then use one of those two as the fireman. Come playoff time just pitch them almost every single game.

 

RP get hurt a lot less often too, don't they? Could be a better investment from an injury risk standpoint.

 

I'd feel more comfortable using Chapman as how Cleveland used Andrew Miller in the postseason then Jansen.

 

Is there any reliever like that who could be acquired via trade?

[Brownie19]

How do you guys feel about Ian Kinsler Tigers are cutting payroll and putting Travis in the corner infield

 

um...you want to move Travis at first base??? This is bad - even for you!

[fatcowxlive]

"The Blue Jays Should Rebuild" I think

 

It's not a bad idea. I mean think about it, the big FA class is coming in 2ish years. The FO guys know how to draft and rebuild. Best-case scenario is we get 2 picks right? Well we have lots of aging players on the roster too that can net us stuff. Martin can bring something back and so can Tulo (IF we can trade him, he might have a no trade) since we can probably eat lots of money. It would be like a quick 2 year rebuild. Estrada and Happ can net us a lot, especially since their contracts are looking like bargains. I feel like there's a lot to do, and the biggest asset we have is money during a crappy FA class. I'd rather us not trade our young arms for 30+ year old bats.

 

If Atkins, Shapiro and Cherrington believe they can draft well in the 2 upcoming years, setting up for that huge FA class.... it wouldn't be that bad of an idea. The biggest issue here is the fanbase of course, good luck telling everyone to wait it out a couple of years. We can still field a WC-competitive team in the meantime though.

[Bobthe4th]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-blue-jays-should-rebuild/

 

Poorly thought out article:

 

Doesn't mention the fact that the best AL pitching rotation is all coming back on very affordable salaries.

Claims blowing it up means money is freed up to sign JD long term - why the hell would he want to stay on a losing team?

Doesn't take into account the likelihood of increased budget meaning "deadweight" contracts of Tulo and Martin would not be huge liabilities even if the worst case did happen and they both turn into replacement level players.

[THANOS]

Can we assume that this front office does not consider strikeouts an issue when it comes to building a lineup considering the Smoak contract and the Upton acquisition

 

It's possible though Shapiro did say that the lineup needs more balance, recently, and referenced Boston and Cleveland. Take that as you will, as he could be referencing adding more LH but it could also be about adding more contact oriented guys.

[HERPDERP]

Obviously it's impossible to replicate a guy like JD, but it would be nice having players who aren't always pull happy and are willing to go the opposite way.

[jaysblue]

Obviously it's impossible to replicate a guy like JD, but it would be nice having players who aren't always pull happy and are willing to go the opposite way.

 

JD went the opposite way quite a bit in the Cleveland series.

[THANOS]

I meet grandmothers IRL who hate Brett Cecil.

 

I'm not exactly sure what he did to gain so many haters.

 

He looks like a hipster. Everyone hates hipsters?

[HERPDERP]

JD went the opposite way quite a bit in the Cleveland series.

 

yup, Edwin started going oppo the last few games. Bautista I don't recall him going against the shift at all.

[HERPDERP]

He looks like a hipster. Everyone hates hipsters?

 

http://i.imgur.com/tijLC1T.jpg

[fatcowxlive]

Poorly thought out article:

 

Doesn't mention the fact that the best AL pitching rotation is all coming back on very affordable salaries.

Claims blowing it up means money is freed up to sign JD long term - why the hell would he want to stay on a losing team?

Doesn't take into account the likelihood of increased budget meaning "deadweight" contracts of Tulo and Martin would not be huge liabilities even if the worst case did happen and they both turn into replacement level players.

 

Well he's gonna be a free agent in that huge class I'm talking about. If we can find a way to retool (I think rebuild is too big of a word) and get rid of the older players for some younger talent (while eating lots of money), we'd be competitive enough to stay relevant in the races/to bring fans to the stadium and we'd have at least a better young core to work with when the offseason at the end of 2018 comes. It's just another idea to have, it's going to be hard to get all the pieces we're talking about to remain a potential 87-90 win team without giving up significant youth I would think. We're losing 6 WAR to FA or something like that

[Bobthe4th]

Well he's gonna be a free agent in that huge class I'm talking about. If we can find a way to retool (I think rebuild is too big of a word) and get rid of the older players for some younger talent (while eating lots of money), we'd be competitive enough to stay relevant in the races/to bring fans to the stadium and we'd have at least a better young core to work with when the offseason at the end of 2018 comes. It's just another idea to have, it's going to be hard to get all the pieces we're talking about to remain a potential 87-90 win team without giving up significant youth I would think. We're losing 6 WAR to FA or something like that

 

Fair point - the article seems to suggest going further than that and going for a full rebuild. Agree with you that retool rather than rebuild is the way to go. Though I'd hope to keep Tulo and Martin, especially if EE and JB both leave.

[G-Snarls]

Will Hutchison make the Pirates starting rotation in 2017?

 

He certainly wouldn't have made ours

[KingKat]

I can't see the big wigs at Rogers supporting a rebuild. The market share is just so good right now. They want to hold on to that. Obviously there not going to give Shapiro a blank cheque but they will give him what he feels he needs to keep the team in contention.

 

Also I didn't even realize that was a Cameron article but when I got to the end, I scrolled back to see who had written that poorly argued, poorly researched word count filler. He's not always that bad. In fact people might be judging him unfairly overall based on his worse stuff but this is definitely one of his crap pieces.

[KingKat]

Will Hutchison make the Pirates starting rotation in 2017?

 

He certainly wouldn't have made ours

 

I'm not so sure. The current "5th" starter was acquired in that trade after all. I think he would be at least penciled in as the 5th starter though the team would be looking at other options and I don't think bringing back Dickey would be one of them.

[fatcowxlive]

I can't see the big wigs at Rogers supporting a rebuild. The market share is just so good right now. They want to hold on to that. Obviously there not going to give Shapiro a blank cheque but they will give him what he feels he needs to keep the team in contention.

 

The only issue is, what's there to spend on? The FA market is stupid, and I doubt Shapiro would be the one to give Edwin that huge deal just so we can look good. The key is gonna be the trade market and I'm not sure we should be relinquishing as many assets as its gonna take to fill those holes in.

[G-Snarls]

I'm not so sure. The current "5th" starter was acquired in that trade after all. I think he would be at least penciled in as the 5th starter though the team would be looking at other options and I don't think bringing back Dickey would be one of them.

 

Well right, good point... with no Liriano and no Dickey yes he woukd have had a shot but I suspect they would have tried to aquire another 5th