Gibbons: Blue Jays are still debating what's going to happen with Sanchez

[Jonn]

All innings matter

 

Come on guys I don't want anyone getting shot.

[Cyborg]

Just start piggybacking him with someone.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Why not just say after discussions with Sanchez, his agent and team doctors, it was determined that we'll take the leash off until the moment when/if there are red flags. That's all they have to do. I have never seen a Jays starter seem to pitch so effortlessly, and be so effective. If his fastball goes down a few ticks and he gets shelled 1-2 games in a row, then you throw him into the 'pen. It would just seem better for everyone, including team morale.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

The "just because that is how we do it mentality in regards to young arms" with no actual evidence that it is physically beneficial for his longevity as a pitcher by limiting his innings. Since there is no compelling evidence that he has a elbow/shoulder issue? Why. While we are at it take Estrada out because of his obvious back problems as they may want to save him for next year to, or the other half a dozen banged up players. Bunch of pussies that don't want to make the tough choices to win.........

 

Or just start AAA pitchers until June, when the real starters can start? I know, silly. Well, maybe not in Dickey's case.

[Sammy225]

Math f***ers answer this question for me.... How many starts would he loose if they employed a 6 man rotation which would give him extra rest.

[wamco]

5 or 6 for a full season so like 2 . You could have him skipped once or twice as well if you wanted. I would think that ip total wouldn't be worrisome.

[Brownie19]

Is there a chance they want to see what Liriano has before making the final decision? Let's be honest, Liriano's been horrid this year.

[mellowgold]

Math f***ers answer this question for me.... How many starts would he loose if they employed a 6 man rotation which would give him extra rest.

 

Two. 54 games left with Sanchez scheduled for the second game gives him 11 more starts. With a six-man rotation, each guy gets nine starts the rest of the way.

[glory]

Man just give him a phantom DL stint and then put him on a five inning max after that. They can work around this.

 

I don't trust Gibbons using him in the pen. He will be throwing 3 games in 4 days by September 1. A starter might be easier on his arm.

[leaffie]

Does anyone have any stats that show that starting out of the pen in high leverage situations is worse than just starting him for five innings? Or is it all just guesswork?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

And Now For Something Completely Differrent ... From the mind of BBBB for you!!!

 

Just pitch the s*** out of Dickey for the next 32 days and Rest your entire staff for the run and World Series Run!!!

 

Day

1. Dickey

2. Estrada

3. Happ

4. Dickey

5. Stroman

6. Shanchez

7. Dickey

8. Estrada

9. Happ

10. Dickey

11. Stroman

12. Shanchez

13. Etc etc etc etc and repeat for 32 days!!!

 

If Dickey can give us 5 each outing it should be enough and 60 innings, 6/72

 

Happ and Estrada going 6 or 7 would be 36-42 innings

 

Stroman and Shanchez going 5-6 would be 20-24 innings

 

Yes it might be bag Dickey but not like I see him starting or be used much in playoffs either, sooo

 

Plus gets your other starters much needed rest

 

And they would go back to normal with 20 or so games to go, stretch drive!!!

[baloojayz]

And Now For Something Completely Differrent ... From the mind of BBBB for you!!!

 

Just pitch the s*** out of Dickey for the next 32 days and Rest your entire staff for the run and World Series Run!!!

 

Day

1. Dickey

2. Estrada

3. Happ

4. Dickey

5. Stroman

6. Shanchez

7. Dickey

8. Estrada

9. Happ

10. Dickey

11. Stroman

12. Shanchez

13. Etc etc etc etc and repeat for 32 days!!!

 

If Dickey can give us 5 each outing it should be enough and 60 innings, 6/72

 

Happ and Estrada going 6 or 7 would be 36-42 innings

 

Stroman and Shanchez going 5-6 would be 20-24 innings

 

Yes it might be bag Dickey but not like I see him starting or be used much in playoffs either, sooo

 

Plus gets your other starters much needed rest

 

And they would go back to normal with 20 or so games to go, stretch drive!!!

 

Might not make the playoffs in the first place if you do that though

[Stangstag]

And Now For Something Completely Differrent ... From the mind of BBBB for you!!!

 

Just pitch the s*** out of Dickey for the next 32 days and Rest your entire staff for the run and World Series Run!!!

 

Day

1. Dickey

2. Estrada

3. Happ

4. Dickey

5. Stroman

6. Shanchez

7. Dickey

8. Estrada

9. Happ

10. Dickey

11. Stroman

12. Shanchez

13. Etc etc etc etc and repeat for 32 days!!!

 

If Dickey can give us 5 each outing it should be enough and 60 innings, 6/72

 

Happ and Estrada going 6 or 7 would be 36-42 innings

 

Stroman and Shanchez going 5-6 would be 20-24 innings

 

Yes it might be bag Dickey but not like I see him starting or be used much in playoffs either, sooo

 

Plus gets your other starters much needed rest

 

And they would go back to normal with 20 or so games to go, stretch drive!!!

 

 

That's a great idea! Lets give our worst starter MORE starts! Lol! You're so smart!

[intentional wok]

Yeah, giving your circus starter the most of the remaining starts to keep your good ones healthy is not exactly optimizing a playoff run. Innings maintenance and WINNING are sort of at odds.

[Daniel Labude]

The Tigers Fulmer's career high in innings is 124. They are letting him pitch with no limit as of now and said they won't worry until he gets over 180 this year. Totally different approaches...with ours being the dumb one imo

[G-Snarls]

Man just give him a phantom DL stint and then put him on a five inning max after that. They can work around this.

 

I don't trust Gibbons using him in the pen. He will be throwing 3 games in 4 days by September 1. A starter might be easier on his arm.

 

Yes

 

Gibby used Sanchez out of the pen like Girardi used Bettances - almost every single time he got nervous

[G-Snarls]

I'm going on the record...

 

I think he should keep starting all year.

 

In the absence of any unknown information or any injury I say let him keep going, limit innings in any lopsided games and keep him in the rotation for the playoffs too. Try to keep the total innings as reasonable as you can.

 

He's arguably our best starter and he seems fine.

 

The bullpen is much improved and seems fine without him in it

 

There's no guarantee he won't get worn down or injured if he pitches stressful innings out of the pen

 

This is a rare year to win and could be our last realistic GOOD chance for a while.

 

F'n go for it.

[Stangstag]

The Tigers Fulmer's career high in innings is 124. They are letting him pitch with no limit as of now and said they won't worry until he gets over 180 this year. Totally different approaches...with ours being the dumb one imo

 

I believe it's something like a 50% innings increase each year is considered safe.

 

Sanchez pitched 92 innings last year, which means the danger zone is 138. He's already over that.

 

If Fulmer pitched 124 last year, 186 would be his danger zone. Which is what the Tigers front office is saying.

[mikebel111]

There are many factors that come into this. Firstly is the bullpen. Our bullpen right now only has 2 people I trust fully.

 

Osuna is Osuna

Grilli has been fantastic

 

And than a bunch of maybe's

Cecil

Biagini

Benoit

If you move Sanchez, your bullpen makes it a 6 inning game potentially.

 

Secondly, Cecil. If he can find his form, than the urge to move Sanchez probably wont be that great. I have confidence he will find his form but its up in the air still.

 

Thirdly, rotation. If you move Sanchez, than Estrada, Happ, Stroman are your main guys. I dont think Dickey is as bad as some say he is, but cant really trust him in a critical game. He can be hit or miss for most part. So your banking on Liriano bouncing back with being re united with Martin and I dont know if I want to rely on that.

 

I would limit Sanchez innings but keep him in rotation

[Daniel Labude]

I believe it's something like a 50% innings increase each year is considered safe.

 

Sanchez pitched 92 innings last year, which means the danger zone is 138. He's already over that.

 

If Fulmer pitched 124 last year, 186 would be his danger zone. Which is what the Tigers front office is saying.

 

Stroman pitched like 40 innings last year and is going to go for 250... so obviously we are not using that in the Sanchez case.

[worldchamps2016]

I believe it's something like a 50% innings increase each year is considered safe.

 

Sanchez pitched 92 innings last year, which means the danger zone is 138. He's already over that.

 

If Fulmer pitched 124 last year, 186 would be his danger zone. Which is what the Tigers front office is saying.

 

Innings out of the pen are not calculated the same as starter innings.

[Sammy225]

Me and a buddy of mine were talking about this the other day... But if Mets had pulled the strong arm and did shut down Harvey like they were going to last year would he be having the same issues this year... It is kind of the same thing.

[G-Snarls]

Innings out of the pen are not calculated the same as starter innings.

 

And Shapiro feels this way

 

Up and down in the pen multiple times a week, and pitching only in high leverage spots is not necessarily easier than starting every 5 days

[worldchamps2016]

Me and a buddy of mine were talking about this the other day... But if Mets had pulled the strong arm and did shut down Harvey like they were going to last year would he be having the same issues this year... It is kind of the same thing.

 

There are arguments for both sides, That philosophy didn't work out so good for the Marlins and Strasburg.

[HERPDERP]

If our pen ends up being really good I don't mind having Sanchez warm up for a high leverage spot, have that high leverage spot evaporate (either from giving up runs or scoring more runs) and then just throwing him out there.

[glory]

I didn't quite catch what Shapiro said with Bobcat, but he mentioned that there was a stat out there where half of the pitchers in the top 10 were relievers. What stat was he talking about?

[G-Snarls]

I didn't quite catch what Shapiro said with Bobcat, but he mentioned that there was a stat out there where half of the pitchers in the top 10 were relievers. What stat was he talking about?

 

I was wondering that too

 

It certainly isn't WAR:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0

[worldchamps2016]

And Shapiro feels this way

 

Up and down in the pen multiple times a week, and pitching only in high leverage spots is not necessarily easier than starting every 5 days

 

Teams use innings as a general guideline.Pitch count is how they actually keep tract.Including warmups,side sessions,etc.Then they add in stressfull innings and stuff like that.

[G-Snarls]

Teams use innings as a general guideline.Pitch count is how they actually keep tract.Including warmups,side sessions,etc.Then they add in stressfull innings and stuff like that.

 

Makes sense

[pickoff22]

I didn't quite catch what Shapiro said with Bobcat, but he mentioned that there was a stat out there where half of the pitchers in the top 10 were relievers. What stat was he talking about?

 

WPA I assume:

 

1. Britton (BAL) 4.4

2. Kershaw (LAD) 4.1

3. Cueto (SFG) 3.5

4. Sanchez (TOR) 3.2

5. Miller (2TM) 3.0

6. Osuna (TOR) 3.0

7. Dyson (TEX) 2.9

8. Scherzer (WSN) 2.7

9. Sale (CHW) 2.6

10. deGrom (NYM) 2.5