What do you guys make of the whole bullpen situation?

[TheGrandslamMan]

Going into the season I was quite comfortable with it. Though the price to pay for Storen was incredibly steep and more than I would have paid, I thought he really solidified the back-end of the pen. Having Cecil and Storen struggling really flips the whole situation on it's head. I'm all for having Sanchez in the rotation, but losing him in the bullpen created a big hole. Not to mention losing Lowe hurts a lot, a guy like him still in the pen would have stabilized things tremendously.

 

So what do you guys make of it? I'm pretty nervous and skeptical at this point to tell you the truth. I mean even a guy like Girordo has looked good, but can we really rely on him going forward? Who the hell knows.

 

I guess I'm a little disappointed that the team didn't really double down and build upon what they achieved last year... Why not go in and really beef up the bullpen during the off-season?

 

Perhaps I'm just bummed out about how the seasons going and it sucks to see the Jays losing big ground so early. I kind of wish we were able to see how AA would have built upon last year but who knows if he even would have went all in last year if he knew he was wasn't leaving.

[P2F]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4712&position=OF

[RealAccountant]

The bullpen isn't very good and at least for the Jays hasn't been good for a very long time

I don't have the inclination to check but I believe since 2014 we are league worst in close games

 

Part of the bullpen issue is that Gibby is terrible at taking out the starters at the right time.

 

It does not look very promising

[Krylian]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4712&position=OF

 

Doesn't change the fact that Storen has been equally balls-ish.

[Praxis]

Having found the right table in fangraphs (hangs head in shame), the Jays bullpen ranks 16th in WAR, 22nd in FIP and 16th in xFIP. It is at best around average and at worst trending downwards. It's hard to pin it all on Storen vs Revere (small sample size), but numerous pitchers have not performed in the bullpen the way we probably all hoped for at the beginning of the season.

 

The really scary part for me is that aside from Osuna and Floyd, everyone else the Jays have used this season is either barely replacement level or worse.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=14&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=18,d

[Governator]

Having found the right table in fangraphs (hangs head in shame), the Jays bullpen ranks 16th in WAR, 22nd in FIP and 16th in xFIP. It is at best around average and at worst trending downwards. It's hard to pin it all on Storen vs Revere (small sample size), but numerous pitchers have not performed in the bullpen the way we probably all hoped for at the beginning of the season.

 

The really scary part for me is that aside from Osuna and Floyd, everyone else the Jays have used this season is either barely replacement level or worse.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=14&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=18,d

 

 

Being an average BP is fine if you have 3 elite arms and 4 s*** stains to fill a paper, or if your offense is capable of giving you 3 run leads. However we have neither. We have a BP of mediocrity that can't hold runners or pitch in high leverage spots. Yes they are average but that doesn't translate in to out-pitching the opposition's better arms. Yes a few can K guys but we don't have the go to Loogy, we don't have the Cecil guaranteed out and we currently have 4 guys with > 20% HR/FB rates. While those will regress it's still alarming to say the least. Bottomline is our BP is much worse than middle of the road.

 

All we can hope for at this point is our offense keeps creeping up the runs totals while the SP keeps going deep. Hope that Loup's FB/HR was a fluke last year and he can help us out and that Cecil finds his rhythm coming off the DL in rehab. We have to hope that Travis has a bat that remotely resembles himself from last year and that our veterans in EE, JB and JD start crushing the ball. We can't rely on Smoak & Saunders to carry this team.

[RealAccountant]

Looking at macro stats rarely does anything when it comes to bullpens. You also have to have a manager who knows when the time is right to pull his pitcher

 

Anyways it doesn't matter really. End is nigh for Gibby and this particular Jays team

[Boxcar]

Having found the right table in fangraphs (hangs head in shame), the Jays bullpen ranks 16th in WAR, 22nd in FIP and 16th in xFIP. It is at best around average and at worst trending downwards. It's hard to pin it all on Storen vs Revere (small sample size), but numerous pitchers have not performed in the bullpen the way we probably all hoped for at the beginning of the season.

 

The really scary part for me is that aside from Osuna and Floyd, everyone else the Jays have used this season is either barely replacement level or worse.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=14&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=18,d

 

Chavez, Floyd and Osuna have all been excellent. I am not ready to write off Squints just yet, we'll have Loup back soon. The bullpen looks pretty good if Cecil can regain his form.

 

The season is very long, and the bullpen will improve, I'm almost sure. The only worrying guy for me is really just Storen. Hopefully he can get his velo back up but his drop is not comforting.

[KingKat]

Hopefully he can get his velo back up but his drop is not comforting.

 

I keep looking at this graph and it continues to not look promising and you see the same trend across all his pitches.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=6983&position=P&pitch=FA

[fatcowxlive]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

[THANOS]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

 

Blair's a tool.

[Brownie19]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

 

Blair's also probably suggesting we call up Daniel Norris to take Sanchez's spot in the rotation...

 

 

Sanchez is going to the pen at some point, but we're nowhere near it.

[RealAccountant]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

 

This is a good idea.

[Dick_Pole]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

 

I don't know why that's deserving of lol...we all should be pulling for that and getting Hutchison back up in the rotation.

[burlingtonbandit]

Chavez, Floyd and Osuna have all been excellent. I am not ready to write off Squints just yet, we'll have Loup back soon. The bullpen looks pretty good if Cecil can regain his form.

 

The season is very long, and the bullpen will improve, I'm almost sure. The only worrying guy for me is really just Storen. Hopefully he can get his velo back up but his drop is not comforting.

 

Wouldn't say Chavez hasbeen excellent lol. He's given up 2 horrible HR in big spots that have cost the Jays the game and has been beyond awful vs LHH with an FIP over 10.

[Brownie19]

I don't know why that's deserving of lol...we all should be pulling for that and getting Hutchison back up in the rotation.

 

I don't get this. Sanchez has been very solid. I know the Sanchez hate has been strong - but this is a bit much.

[Dick_Pole]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4712&position=OF

 

The man just came off the DL. In the alternate universe where Revere is still a Jay but he also got injured and is just coming back, he would be a welcome addition to this squad which is very low on OF depth and bench players with skills. No point in looking back in hindsight though.

[KingKat]

Jeff Blair is on the radio trying to start an idea of Sanchez to the BP... Lol

 

Well Sanchez is reportedly on an innings limit so it probably will happen at some point but not for the reasons he thinks. If you consider that a) the starting depth is really good right now and the bullpen could probably use him and c) he's not expected to start all year anyways than there's an argument to be made for putting him there now (mind you I doubt Blair is doing a good job of making that argument). The catch with using Sanchez as a reliever now is that you would prefer to have him make all his starts firsts and only transition once rather than start, relieve, then maybe get stretched out and make more starts down the line. Push comes to shove, I'm against it. I think that now that Floyd has established himself as the main setup guy, the bullpen situation isn't as desperate as some are making it out to be but if it were, I could see the argument for the move.

[Dick_Pole]

I don't get this. Sanchez has been very solid. I know the Sanchez hate has been strong - but this is a bit much.

 

It has nothing to do with Sanchez hate. Hutchison has pitched well enough to be deserving of a spot on a team which has issues with MLB relief depth right now. And he's a starter so someone has to be moved to the pen to make room for him. Dickey and Sanchez are clearly the #4/5 in this rotation. And with the current roster construction of Dickey having his personal ball bag carrier every time he's out there, Sanchez just translates better to the pen. Plus he has had success in the pen. This has nothing to do with hate, but a reasonable conclusion to try to get the maximum out of a pool of players in a "win now" year. Hutchison is an upgrade to Sanchez in the rotation and Sanchez is an upgrade to Tepera in the bullpen.

[RealAccountant]

Everytime Sanchez goes to the bullpen, he stabalizes the entire pen.

 

Add Sanchez to the current pen, and all of a sudden things change a lot, also allows Cecil to go back to less stressful situations

 

I would approve 10/10 Sanchez to go back to the pen, and Hutch to come up and start.

[Dick_Pole]

I'm always fearful when I'm 100% on the same side as RealAccountant, as if I'm missing something huge that should totally change my opinion on the reality of the situation, but I just don't see it in this case.

[TheHurl]

Is there anyone truly concerned about the Pen if Storen and Cecil are healthy and pitching close to their form? Acquiring a "proven" guy at this point wouldn't be worth the price. So it's internal options or hoping to catch lightning in a bottle somewhere.

[Boxcar]

Wouldn't sayFhavez hasbeen excellent lol. He's given up 2 horrible HR in big spots that have cost the Jays the game and has been beyond awful vs LHH with an FIP over 10.

 

Good call, he'll probably maintain that HR/FB that's 10% higher than his career average.

 

He had been very good up until yesterday's appearance.

[KingKat]

Is there anyone truly concerned about the Pen if Storen and Cecil are healthy and pitching close to their form?

 

No of course not but since that hasn't happened what's your point exactly?

[burlingtonbandit]

Good call, he'll probably maintain that HR/FB that's 10% higher than his career average.

 

He had been very good up until yesterday's appearance.

 

He's still been dogshit vs LHH. I'd just say he's been good but its a big stretch to say he's been excellent.

[Governator]

Is there anyone truly concerned about the Pen if Storen and Cecil are healthy and pitching close to their form? Acquiring a "proven" guy at this point wouldn't be worth the price. So it's internal options or hoping to catch lightning in a bottle somewhere.

 

 

There would be no discussion if Storen & Cecil pitched to their abilities.... Do you honestly think they are returning to full form within the next 30 days? Cecil might with a full rehab assignment after the DL but Storen is a lost cause.

[fatcowxlive]

Uhhhh I don't understand why people are agreeing to go with Sanchez in the pen. He's almost produced 1.0 WAR. If you guys can't entrust Chavez or Floyd to go one inning throwing gas from the pen how can you entrust them going 5 or 6 innings? If you guys really want Hutch up here give him Chavez' role and make Chavez a one inning guy like Floyd, but there's no way I want any of those 3 starting ahead of Sanchez. By this thinking might as well throw Stroman in the pen instead.

 

Plus Sanchez in the pen won't help us with one of our biggest problems in the pen: lack of lefties. Cecil, Loup and Morales are all on the DL.

 

If you guys want him the BP when he's close to his innings limit down the stretch sure, but to throw him in soon because our BP sucks is stupid. No sense in having him in there if his replacement stinks up the joint almost every start.

[CJ-Freeway]

Pen is shaky because of Cecil and Storen. Chavez and Floyd are good. Osuna is excellent.

 

And no, Sanchez should stay in the rotation. Being a reliever is very different than being a starter- there's no guarantee that he will be as good in the pen as he is as a starter. So I'd rather keep him as a very good starter.

[HERPDERP]

1.) Storen has been horrible and will continue to be horrible. Unless he magically discovers his velocity. His slider is still really good but his fastball is good enough to whack it out.

 

2.) This bullpen has coughed up some pretty big home runs with inherited runners. I'm not sure if that is something that is going to continue forward. I think the bullpen is a lot better than what it is.

 

It is discouraging, however, that Chavez has resorted to his longball tendencies.

[crazy47larry]

cecil and storen just need to be pushed down the pecking order. it was tough watching gibby throw cecil out there in super high leverage situations knowing that he was doomed to fail. his mechanics are s*** and he cant locate anything. to be fair Cecil wa always walking a fine line with his mechanics anyways so it might have just been a matter of time. it is something that can potentially be ironed out but we cant afford to wait for it and be like "this is the day cecil will be good again". being placed on the DL might be the best thing for Cecil right now though. Storen I dunno. his stuff seems lacking and the league switch the the AL East is already a killer. i cant comment on his mechanics or anything like that since we just got him.

 

the real problem is if we drop storen and eventually cecil down to lower leverage roles while they get their feet back under them then who do we bump up? Girodo? Biagini? The Anatolian? Sanchez is the only upgrade but I agree we should just ride him out as a SP until he creeps up to the innings limit.