Can someone explain that call?

[IBTrini]

That's not a new rule. If I recall, you've never been able to grab a guy's leg as he's making a throw.

I thought he was penalized for violation of the new rule (not maintaining contact with the bag) and as such the penalty imposed resulted in both runners being called out.

 

Anyway, no matter which way you look at it, I believe the call which ended the game was made correctly (even though I did not like the outcome) since an interference violation would have also been committed by the runner with the intent of preventing a DP (which was Bautista's intent). This violation would have resulted in the batter/runner being called out as well as the runner who committed the interference.

 

That was definitely a heart-breaking result. I am anxiously looking forward to today's game but it is not starting soon enough (starting around 13:00 EST?). A win by the Jays will go a long way in minimizing the sting from last night's loss!

[KinofChaos]

Bautista's reach there disturbed the throwing

 

The only question is whether that play is reviewable. If it's not then MLB owes Jays an explanation.

 

However we didn't lose the game because of that. We lost the game BC the boards sweetheart reliever came in and gave up a 2 run bomb.

All those stranded runners had nothing to do with the loss....

[Brownie19]

I think for me it sanitizes the game more, the catcher can't be in the base path anymore which I agreed with as there were some brutal collisions with runners trying to score, but this? Grab a foot and the runner is out? Come on the spirit of the rule is to protect the players not call a runner out simply because someone grabbed a foot, so for me it has nothing to do with change, some changes were needed but this was a bad call and not in the spirit of the rule plain and simple.

 

I hear what you're saying - but why should you be allowed to grab his leg? If there's a runner on first, 1 out and the fielder grabs the ball in the base path and goes to tag you - should you be allowed to grab his arm so he can't throw to first? should you be allowed to run him over (Albert Belle)? Why would that suddenly be allowed if you're in the vicinity of 2nd base?

 

I also think the league (rightfully so) will want to eliminate the "grey" area to the extent possible. If the 2nd basemen jumps to avoid the runner - can the runner grab his leg and pull down? Lets be honest, the Tampa player did a good job of getting "away" from 2nd base so he could avoid the runner and make a throw. Why would a runner be allowed to interfere with him (even if it probably won't hurt him)?

[Krylian]

I disagree. I think a lot of people truly hate the rule simply because they hate change. How many people have already said "since I was a little kid - I was taught to do this". I think if people have the ability to subjectively look at this - why should a runner ever be able to interfere with a fielder? I mean they shouldn't right? and they don't on every other play on the infield - except the DP ball (and previously on plays at home). Why was it ever allowed on this one play? Why weren't we taught to run over an infielder who's camped under a pop fly? Who decided interference is allowed on this one play?

 

Staying in the basepath is the big thing, I think.

 

If Bautista slid HARD into second base, and took out a middle infielder... Just with his feet, is it called interference? No. Bautista reached out a bit, yes. But he didn't hook his leg or grab him and throw him off balance. It was very mild contact, and i think had virtually no impact on his ability to make the throw to first.

 

Again, the purpose of this rule was for safety reasons. What about Bautista's slide was unsafe?

 

Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever the hell you want within the baseline. The fielder needs to get in, make the play, and get out. If the base runner strays, penalize him and the team.

 

I'll say it now... The Jays will eventually get a call like this go their way... And if it's as Pussyball as this one was, I'll hate it.

[Governator]

I guess so. I don't think the beautiful game of baseball needs violence plays like that to make it great. MLB eliminated the collision at home last year and outside of the first few times it was called early in the season - I didn't hear anyone complaining...and rightfully so. I hope the same thing happens with this DP interference rule.

 

 

I don't know how this compares to colliding at home plate or how you consider it such a violent play. This doesn't even come close to the Utley incident, there is no intent to injure, an intent to distract the player perhaps which should be within the rules.

[HERPDERP]

why are we still talking about trying to injure players or the Chase Utley rule? It's interference

[Governator]

why are we still talking about trying to injure players or the Chase Utley rule? It's interference

 

because interference is the discretion of the umpire crew not an instant replay in NY, it says so in the rules.

[Brownie19]

Staying in the basepath is the big thing, I think.

 

If Bautista slid HARD into second base, and took out a middle infielder... Just with his feet, is it called interference? No. Bautista reached out a bit, yes. But he didn't hook his leg or grab him and throw him off balance. It was very mild contact, and i think had virtually no impact on his ability to make the throw to first.

 

Again, the purpose of this rule was for safety reasons. What about Bautista's slide was unsafe?

 

Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever the hell you want within the baseline. The fielder needs to get in, make the play, and get out. If the base runner strays, penalize him and the team.

 

I'll say it now... The Jays will eventually get a call like this go their way... And if it's as Pussyball as this one was, I'll hate it.

 

So you think if a pop fly is going to land right in the baseline that the runner should be able to blow up the fielder? That's messed up. Man I really hate all this "pussified" "pussyball" stuff. Did y'all grow up in military families or something? Daddy yelling all the time about how you have to be a man and men do things this way? If there's not a chance you're going to break your leg or lose some teeth - it's not a sport son!!!

[Governator]

So you think if a pop fly is going to land right in the baseline that the runner should be able to blow up the fielder? That's messed up. Man I really hate all this "pussified" "pussyball" stuff. Did y'all grow up in military families or something? Daddy yelling all the time about how you have to be a man and men do things this way? If there's not a chance you're going to break your leg or lose some teeth - it's not a sport son!!!

 

No they are 2 completely different scenarios and a lot of us grew up playing baseball not in a military family.

[Brownie19]

I don't know how this compares to colliding at home plate or how you consider it such a violent play. This doesn't even come close to the Utley incident, there is no intent to injure, an intent to distract the player perhaps which should be within the rules.

 

Perhaps I'm a bit off track, but you called me a softie, so I assumed that meant violence. What Utley did last year was gutless. He shouldn't be playing baseball IMO - but there are folks that love that and think it is needed in the game. Blows my mind.

 

I'm totally on the "why is interference allowed at 2nd base, but nowhere else" train now. All aboard!

[Brownie19]

No they are 2 completely different scenarios and a lot of us grew up playing baseball not in a military family.

 

What do you mean? Krylian said he thought the base runner should be able to do whatever he wants within the baseline...

[Governator]

What do you mean? Krylian said he thought the base runner should be able to do whatever he wants within the baseline...

 

He obviously didn't mean charge in to a guy trying to catch a fly ball in the base path... he was referring to plays at bases.

[Boxcar]

All those stranded runners had nothing to do with the loss....

 

Do you ever tire of making new accounts to troll a site that clearly wants nothing to do with you?

[onwego]

Thanks for the objective discussions on here, a tough but correct call is a big part of baseball.

[KingKat]

It's not as flagrant but what Bautista did isn't dissimilar to A-Rod's infamous play in the playoffs.

 

 

Not one ever claimed A-Rod was endangering the other player, just messing with his ability to make the play. What Bautista did was was similar except that I don't think it was pre-meditated. Just a regrettable split second reaction thing. There's really no doubt he interfered.

[onwego]

It's not as flagrant but what Bautista did isn't dissimilar to A-Rod's infamous play in the playoffs.

 

 

Not one ever claimed A-Rod was endangering the other player, just messing with his ability to make the play. What Bautista did was was similar except that I don't think it was pre-meditated. Just a regrettable split second reaction thing. There's really no doubt he interfered.

 

Fick did that as well at first in the playoffs a few years before A-Rod.

[Brownie19]

It's not as flagrant but what Bautista did isn't dissimilar to A-Rod's infamous play in the playoffs.

 

 

Not one ever claimed A-Rod was endangering the other player, just messing with his ability to make the play. What Bautista did was was similar except that I don't think it was pre-meditated. Just a regrettable split second reaction thing. There's really no doubt he interfered.

 

We all agree this shouldn't be allowed right? Why would you be allowed to run interference around second base then? If a player jumps to avoid a hard slide - can we grab and pull his leg down?

[Krylian]

What do you mean? Krylian said he thought the base runner should be able to do whatever he wants within the baseline...

 

Within reason. Jesus, some people need every little thing spelled out for them. Just like you were to use common sense when analyzing my post, there should be common sense when applying the "Utley" rule. Maybe that's why you're having a tough time with this...the common sense part.

[G-Snarls]

[Krylian]

We all agree this shouldn't be allowed right? Why would you be allowed to run interference around second base then? If a player jumps to avoid a hard slide - can we grab and pull his leg down?

 

If you can't see the difference between what Bautista did and what A-Rod did then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

[KingKat]

If you can't see the difference between what Bautista did and what A-Rod did then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

Obviously there are differences. That doesn't meant they're not both interference. If you wan't to argue otherwise then maybe argue otherwise instead of making puerile "take my toys and go home" kind of posts.

[Brownie19]

If you can't see the difference between what Bautista did and what A-Rod did then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

Clearly what A-rod did is "more" interference than what Jose did, but I'm not interesting in categorizing the amount of interference that's run. If you intentionally interfere, which both A-rod and Jose did - you're out.

[SAAviour]

I agree you shouldn't be allowed to grab a guys leg and interfere, I don't believe what Bautista did interfered....I just think Forsythe sucks and his throw was terrible. The tap on the leg was not noticeable until the replay. 4 umps didn't call it, I bet Cash took a shot in the dark at reviewing that play cause why not.

 

I also agree no infielder should be getting injured at 2nd base, but I think a good slide where you hit the dirt a few feet in front of the bag is safe and a skill set of a middle infielder is to turn two under pressure....not anymore.

[onwego]

No high fives or love taps or arm bars or judo chops or Spock pinches until time out is called.

[Brownie19]

Within reason. Jesus, some people need every little thing spelled out for them. Just like you were to use common sense when analyzing my post, there should be common sense when applying the "Utley" rule. Maybe that's why you're having a tough time with this...the common sense part.

 

Sorry - you said "Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever the hell you want within the baseline". "Whatever the hell" suggests you actually mean everything is fair game. It certainly gives the impression you mean, hit, grab, pull, push, run over, etc.

[Krylian]

Clearly what A-rod did is "more" interference than what Jose did, but I'm not interesting in categorizing the amount of interference that's run. If you intentionally interfere, which both A-rod and Jose did - you're out.

 

And that's the thing. I think making it black and white is not going to have the outcome that they were bargaining for.

 

It's kind of like what we started seeing last year with baserunners coming off the bag for a slit second in a pop-up slide or their toe coming off the bag for a split second on a stolen base and because Mr. middle infielder kept the tag on, and instant replay was now accessible, those plays were being looked at runners were being called out.

 

Technically, are they out because they came off the bag? Sure. But were they "really" out based on our common sense and how we know it is? Not really. He beat the throw to second but his tow came off for a split second because of his aggressive slide. I still think player X deserves that stolen base.

 

Baseball has been an imperfect game forever...I'm not sure that making it black and white for everything is the best course of action. Sometimes common sense needs to prevail. But maybe I'm alone in that.

[Krylian]

Sorry - you said "Personally, I think you should be able to do whatever the hell you want within the baseline". "Whatever the hell" suggests you actually mean everything is fair game. It certainly gives the impression you mean, hit, grab, pull, push, run over, etc.

 

I would literally carry a firearm on the bases.

[Brownie19]

I agree you shouldn't be allowed to grab a guys leg and interfere, I don't believe what Bautista did interfered....I just think Forsythe sucks and his throw was terrible. The tap on the leg was not noticeable until the replay. 4 umps didn't call it, I bet Cash took a shot in the dark at reviewing that play cause why not.

 

I also agree no infielder should be getting injured at 2nd base, but I think a good slide where you hit the dirt a few feet in front of the bag is safe and a skill set of a middle infielder is to turn two under pressure....not anymore.

 

I still think that's true. I think this call is on the very edge of what is allowed/disallowed. Whether he truly interfered or not - Jose attempted to interfere as he clearly threw his arms and upper body offline from his slide. Players will learn you simply slide into the bag with the intent of trying to get their as fast as possible - trying to beat the throw...not with the intent of interfering with the fielder.

[Brownie19]

And that's the thing. I think making it black and white is not going to have the outcome that they were bargaining for.

 

It's kind of like what we started seeing last year with baserunners coming off the bag for a slit second in a pop-up slide or their toe coming off the bag for a split second on a stolen base and because Mr. middle infielder kept the tag on, and instant replay was now accessible, those plays were being looked at runners were being called out.

 

Technically, are they out because they came off the bag? Sure. But were they "really" out based on our common sense and how we know it is? Not really. He beat the throw to second but his tow came off for a split second because of his aggressive slide. I still think player X deserves that stolen base.

 

Baseball has been an imperfect game forever...I'm not sure that making it black and white for everything is the best course of action. Sometimes common sense needs to prevail. But maybe I'm alone in that.

 

We'll agree to disagree. I think if you come off the bag on a steal attempt and are tagged - you're out. We now have the ability to make the right call more often and I'm glad we're using it.

[Krylian]

I agree you shouldn't be allowed to grab a guys leg and interfere, I don't believe what Bautista did interfered....I just think Forsythe sucks and his throw was terrible. The tap on the leg was not noticeable until the replay. 4 umps didn't call it, I bet Cash took a shot in the dark at reviewing that play cause why not.

 

I also agree no infielder should be getting injured at 2nd base, but I think a good slide where you hit the dirt a few feet in front of the bag is safe and a skill set of a middle infielder is to turn two under pressure....not anymore.

 

I think you should be able to slide into the base, but be able to stick your arms out or up to make the infielder move. Don't grab the infielder, but make them get out of the way of your arms to make the throw.