Osuna Closer; Leon, Biagini, Tepera make pen; Ceciliani Optioned

[HERPDERP]

What kind of projected value are we talking about with 2017 Dickey? He's already a guy who needed 214 innings to scrap his way to 2 wins last year. You're essentially advocating dedicating two roster spots in 2017 for what? A 1.0 to 1.5 win garbage tosser? f*** this s***. Enough already.

 

Who cares about the 2 roster spots for Dickey. You're going to need a backup catcher anyway, and their value is what, 0.5 war max?

[Brownie19]

Who cares about the 2 roster spots for Dickey. You're going to need a backup catcher anyway, and their value is what, 0.5 war max?

 

The fan enjoyment - knowing Thole isn't on the team would far outweigh the actual WAR improvement. Enough of this talk about keeping Dickey/Thole on.

[KingKat]

Who cares about the 2 roster spots for Dickey. You're going to need a backup catcher anyway, and their value is what, 0.5 war max?

 

This isn't rocket science. Dickey sucks. He's only going to suck more two seasons from now.

[Laika]

What kind of projected value are we talking about with 2017 Dickey? He's already a guy who needed 214 innings to scrap his way to 2 wins last year. You're essentially advocating dedicating two roster spots in 2017 for what? A 1.0 to 1.5 win garbage tosser? f*** this s***. Enough already.

 

He was a 3.6 win pitcher last year, and worth 2.6 and 2.4 wins in each of the preceding years. RA9-WAR is the most relevant measure of his talent. He doesn't have a skill set that should fall off a cliff or anything. He's currently an above average starting pitcher all things considered. Sure, he's old and general wear and tear should be expected to reduce his ability to really chew up innings at some point.

 

Your type of attitude is exactly the reason he has the potential to be a really good investment for the 2017 team.

 

I'm not saying sign him right now. I'm saying they should consider offering him a contract for 2017 if at the conclusion of 2016 he still appears to be about as healthy and skillful and he is right now.

 

RA Dickey had ERAs of 3.71 and 3.91 in the last two years while pitching 430 innings in the AL East. To say "hurrr durrr Dickey sucks and is a garbage tosser" demonstrates about as much critical thinking as that time that I ate a live frog when I was two years old.

[burlingtonbandit]

This FG post from today seems relevant http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2015-starting-pitcher-ball-in-play-retrospective-al-east/

 

When taking into account balls in play Dickey's ERA was exactly as it should have been. Using FG FIP based WAR is useless for Dickey because of the knuckleball.

 

Interesting that then number 1 starter in the AL East last year by Tru ERA was our very own Marco Estrada.

[GD]

This FG post from today seems relevant http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2015-starting-pitcher-ball-in-play-retrospective-al-east/

 

When taking into account balls in play Dickey's ERA was exactly as it should have been. Using FG FIP based WAR is useless for Dickey because of the knuckleball.

 

Interesting that then number 1 starter in the AL East last year by Tru ERA was our very own Marco Estrada.

 

I don't need to read that article to know Blengino is going to throw a bunch of random s*** into percentiles.

[bones10]

They weren't really into the full rebuild in Cleveland. They'll probably put together a true talent 80-85 win team for a few years while the farm ripens and hope for some luck to push them to WC contention. There will be enough here for that:

 

C - Martin

1B -

2B - Travis

3B - Donaldson

SS - Tulowitzki

CF - Pillar

LF -

RF -

DH -

BN/possible starters - Goins, Pompey, Ceciliani,

 

SP - Stroman

SP - Estrada

SP - Happ

SP - Sanchez/Osuna?

SP -

 

That's about $85M, so they should have like $50M to play with.

 

Maybe they go to the market and give Happ/Estrada contracts to an OF/DH and an SP.

 

Anyway we could become a more pitching oriented team?

 

Are there and big name SP coming to free agency in 2017? let Bautista and Edwin walk sign/trade for a #1.

 

I feel it's much harder to be a consistent playoff team with just offense anyway.

[dineke]

Anyway we could become a more pitching oriented team?

 

Are there and big name SP coming to free agency in 2017? let Bautista and Edwin walk sign/trade for a #1.

 

I feel it's much harder to be a consistent playoff team with just offense anyway.

 

How so? Pitchers get hurt all the time.

[Angrioter]

Anyway we could become a more pitching oriented team?

 

Are there and big name SP coming to free agency in 2017? let Bautista and Edwin walk sign/trade for a #1.

 

I feel it's much harder to be a consistent playoff team with just offense anyway.

 

How so? Pitchers get hurt all the time.

 

Hitters > Pitchers

[Laika]

Anyway we could become a more pitching oriented team?

 

Are there and big name SP coming to free agency in 2017? let Bautista and Edwin walk sign/trade for a #1.

 

I feel it's much harder to be a consistent playoff team with just offense anyway.

 

Not a great crop

 

Brett Anderson (29)

Bronson Arroyo (40)

Brandon Beachy (30)

Clay Buchholz (32)

Andrew Cashner (30)

Jhoulys Chacin (29)

Jesse Chavez (33)

Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout

Bartolo Colon (43)

John Danks (32)

Jorge De La Rosa (36)

R.A. Dickey (42)

Scott Feldman (34)

Doug Fister (33)

Gio Gonzalez (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jeremy Guthrie (38)

Jason Hammel (34) — $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Jeremy Hellickson (30)

Rich Hill (37)

Derek Holland (30) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Edwin Jackson (33)

Scott Kazmir (33) — can opt out of remaining two years, $32MM on current contract

Mat Latos (29)

Colby Lewis (37)

Cory Luebke (32)

Kris Medlen (31) — $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Matt Moore (28) — $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Charlie Morton (33) — $9.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Jon Niese (30) — $10MM club option with a $500K buyout

Ivan Nova (30)

Jake Peavy (36)

Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club/vesting option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 IP)

CC Sabathia (36) — $25MM vesting option with a $5MM buyout

James Shields (35) — Can opt out of remaining two years, $44MM on current contract

Alfredo Simon (36)

Stephen Strasburg (28)

Ryan Vogelsong (39)

Edinson Volquez (33) — $10MM mutual option with a $3MM buyout

Jered Weaver (34)

C.J. Wilson (36)

Travis Wood (30)

[bones10]

How so? Pitchers get hurt all the time.

 

I mean the Bluejays have been top 10 in runs scored for last 5 years and have only made the playoffs once?

[Sammy225]

Not a great crop

 

Brett Anderson (29)

Bronson Arroyo (40)

Brandon Beachy (30)

Clay Buchholz (32)

Andrew Cashner (30)

Jhoulys Chacin (29)

Jesse Chavez (33)

Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout

Bartolo Colon (43)

John Danks (32)

Jorge De La Rosa (36)

R.A. Dickey (42)

Scott Feldman (34)

Doug Fister (33)

Gio Gonzalez (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jeremy Guthrie (38)

Jason Hammel (34) — $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Jeremy Hellickson (30)

Rich Hill (37)

Derek Holland (30) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Edwin Jackson (33)

Scott Kazmir (33) — can opt out of remaining two years, $32MM on current contract

Mat Latos (29)

Colby Lewis (37)

Cory Luebke (32)

Kris Medlen (31) — $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Matt Moore (28) — $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Charlie Morton (33) — $9.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Jon Niese (30) — $10MM club option with a $500K buyout

Ivan Nova (30)

Jake Peavy (36)

Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club/vesting option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 IP)

CC Sabathia (36) — $25MM vesting option with a $5MM buyout

James Shields (35) — Can opt out of remaining two years, $44MM on current contract

Alfredo Simon (36)

Stephen Strasburg (28)

Ryan Vogelsong (39)

Edinson Volquez (33) — $10MM mutual option with a $3MM buyout

Jered Weaver (34)

C.J. Wilson (36)

Travis Wood (30)

 

Not bad a lot of depth guys.... That Strasburg kid could be a good buy low guy

[bones10]

Not bad a lot of depth guys.... That Strasburg kid could be a good buy low guy

 

Buy low? The guy could win the cy young this year.

[Angrioter]

Not bad a lot of depth guys.... That Strasburg kid could be a good buy low guy

Yep. 230 Millions is buy low

[Frenchsoup]

Anyway we could become a more pitching oriented team?

 

Are there and big name SP coming to free agency in 2017? let Bautista and Edwin walk sign/trade for a #1.

 

I feel it's much harder to be a consistent playoff team with just offense anyway.

 

This is so wrong.

[BTS]

That might be the worst FA SP group I've ever seen. Strasburg, and then not even any 2/3 types except maybe Kazmir and Cashner. Would be nice to extend Chavez a couple of years.

[bones10]

This is so wrong.

 

Could you elaborate? I'm generally curious, not even sure why I had this idea in my head other than the fact that the Bluejays have had a very good offense for the last couple of years and haven't done anything; except 2015 obviously.

[nmrch]

Could you elaborate? I'm generally curious, not even sure why I had this idea in my head other than the fact that the Bluejays have had a very good offense for the last couple of years and haven't done anything; except 2015 obviously.

 

Good teams consistently make the playoffs, whether they're pitching heavy good teams or offence heavy good teams is irrelevant.

[L54]

Could you elaborate? I'm generally curious, not even sure why I had this idea in my head other than the fact that the Bluejays have had a very good offense for the last couple of years and haven't done anything; except 2015 obviously.

 

Careful. I don't think the grass is necessarily greener on the other side. You don't need me to yell cliches at you like "a win is a win" or "a run prevented is as good as a run scored", but I don't think building a pitching orientated team in Toronto will make the Blue Jays any more successful than just fielding the best team possible.

[THANOS]

Not a great crop

 

Brett Anderson (29)

Bronson Arroyo (40)

Brandon Beachy (30)

Clay Buchholz (32)

Andrew Cashner (30)

Jhoulys Chacin (29)

Jesse Chavez (33)

Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout

Bartolo Colon (43)

John Danks (32)

Jorge De La Rosa (36)

R.A. Dickey (42)

Scott Feldman (34)

Doug Fister (33)

Gio Gonzalez (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jeremy Guthrie (38)

Jason Hammel (34) — $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Jeremy Hellickson (30)

Rich Hill (37)

Derek Holland (30) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Edwin Jackson (33)

Scott Kazmir (33) — can opt out of remaining two years, $32MM on current contract

Mat Latos (29)

Colby Lewis (37)

Cory Luebke (32)

Kris Medlen (31) — $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Matt Moore (28) — $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Charlie Morton (33) — $9.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Jon Niese (30) — $10MM club option with a $500K buyout

Ivan Nova (30)

Jake Peavy (36)

Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club/vesting option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 IP)

CC Sabathia (36) — $25MM vesting option with a $5MM buyout

James Shields (35) — Can opt out of remaining two years, $44MM on current contract

Alfredo Simon (36)

Stephen Strasburg (28)

Ryan Vogelsong (39)

Edinson Volquez (33) — $10MM mutual option with a $3MM buyout

Jered Weaver (34)

C.J. Wilson (36)

Travis Wood (30)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tyson Ross a free agent after this season? He seems like he would be a good pick-up. Hell, Cashner would be a decent pick-up as well.

[Laika]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tyson Ross a free agent after this season? He seems like he would be a good pick-up. Hell, Cashner would be a decent pick-up as well.

 

No, I think you're wrong on Ross. One more year.

 

I think Cashner is pretty overrated. He's average-ish.

 

Value Town in that class = Dickey, Colon, maybe Anderson and Buchholz?

 

Geeze, not a lot of attractive anything.

[KinofChaos]

Carerra? JEsus Christ he has no business being on this roster.

[bones10]

Careful. I don't think the grass is necessarily greener on the other side. You don't need me to yell cliches at you like "a win is a win" or "a run prevented is as good as a run scored", but I don't think building a pitching orientated team in Toronto will make the Blue Jays any more successful than just fielding the best team possible.

 

Fair enough.

[intentional wok]

Carerra? JEsus Christ he has no business being on this roster.

 

Wtf? They picked Carerra over Ceciliani?

[gruber92]

Wtf? They picked Carerra over Ceciliani?

 

Lol..

[THANOS]

No, I think you're wrong on Ross. One more year.

 

I think Cashner is pretty overrated. He's average-ish.

 

Value Town in that class = Dickey, Colon, maybe Anderson and Buchholz?

 

Geeze, not a lot of attractive anything.

 

Cashner's decent and has good potential. He just needs to be removed from an environment that encourages "pitching to contact" which SD does. Fangraphs wrote an article on him and his SwStr% is so low because he focuses on his 2-SM to get "quick outs" like AA had Sanchez doing the past couple years. Now Sanchez is using his 4-SM a lot more and getting swinging strikes on it. I think Cashner under Shatkins could actually reach his potential. Keep in mind that he averaged 10+ K/9 throughout his MiLB career, just there is more ceiling for him, imo.

 

That said, Colon or Anderson would be decent. I'm just hoping Greene is ready by then, and Hutch turns things around.

[Boxcar]

That might be the worst FA SP group I've ever seen. Strasburg, and then not even any 2/3 types except maybe Kazmir and Cashner. Would be nice to extend Chavez a couple of years.

 

Hammel is better than both of those guys fwiw

[Boxcar]

Cashner's decent and has good potential. He just needs to be removed from an environment that encourages "pitching to contact" which SD does. Fangraphs wrote an article on him and his SwStr% is so low because he focuses on his 2-SM to get "quick outs" like AA had Sanchez doing the past couple years. Now Sanchez is using his 4-SM a lot more and getting swinging strikes on it. I think Cashner under Shatkins could actually reach his potential. Keep in mind that he averaged 10+ K/9 throughout his MiLB career, just there is more ceiling for him, imo.

 

That said, Colon or Anderson would be decent. I'm just hoping Greene is ready by then, and Hutch turns things around.

 

Weird that Tyson Ross is really good at striking people out and James Shields had the best swstr of his entire career, then.

 

Cashner is crazy overrated. He's really not noteworthy.

[Spanky99]

Hammel is better than both of those guys fwiw

 

Cubs won't let him go, they'll pick that option up.

[King]

Carerra? JEsus Christ he has no business being on this roster.

 

Sup mj?