Jays sign Domonic Brown

[SpeedyGose]

I don't really understand why Brown ended up being such a particularly bad hitter. His K & BB rates were both solid and there is latent power. Maybe just too much length in the swing or trouble with offspeed. I like it as a minor league depth signing. He's probably garbage, but at least there is some ceiling there unlike the garbage we already had (looking at you, Ezequiel).

 

Looking at his career splits he's been a league average hitter against righties (101 wRC+) despite how terrible he has looked. Could be looking at grooming him into a solid platoon or bench bat.

[Brownie19]

Problem is even if the leg kick adds .150 in OPS he's probably still a negative players because his D and baserunning is so s***.

 

Same could/would be said about Jay Bruce...who we'd owe $13.5M.

 

That said - both Brown and Bruce played RF....is there a chance their defense improves (to a reasonable level) if they spend most their time in LF? I guess the only way it would is if it's their arm that's the issue....something tells me Brown has a cannon...no idea about Bruce.

[G-Snarls]

crazy that this guy was the best prospect in baseball one time.

 

Smoak was a top 10 at one point too was he not?

[gbill2004]

Maybe Shapiro will trade Brown for Bruce now.

[Laika]

Looking at his career splits he's been a league average hitter against righties (101 wRC+) despite how terrible he has looked. Could be looking at grooming him into a solid platoon or bench bat.

 

I would read that the opposite way. He hasn't even been good against RHP. Almost any random lefty would be better.

[Brownie19]

Christ - why didn't we just trade for Coghlan? only owed $4.8M this year (FA next year) and has been 2.4 - 3.3 WAR the past 2 years. We could have offered him a QO after the year and watched the O's sign him for no reason and give us their draft pick.

[glory]

We have to ignore Brown's history. Unlike Bruce who at least had really good seasons before, anything Brown is expected to provide would have to come from him being tweaked or fixed by the org. Otherwise he serves no real value.

[baseballsss]

Christ - why didn't we just trade for Coghlan? only owed $4.8M this year (FA next year) and has been 2.4 - 3.3 WAR the past 2 years. We could have offered him a QO after the year and watched the O's sign him for no reason and give us their draft pick.

 

Are draft picks protected for the top ten?

[Brownie19]

We have to ignore Brown's history. Unlike Bruce who at least had really good seasons before, anything Brown is expected to provide would have to come from him being tweaked or fixed by the org. Otherwise he serves no real value.

 

Bruce has a better track record - but the last time either player was good - Brown was the better hitter...

 

Let's be honest - both players probably suck.........but only one comes with a $13.5M price tag.

[Brownie19]

Are draft picks protected for the top ten?

 

I think so - but Machado, Davis and the Showalter effect should keep them out of the basement.

[Governator]

Bruce has a better track record - but the last time either player was good - Brown was the better hitter...

 

Let's be honest - both players probably suck.........but only one comes with a $13.5M price tag.

 

You just like his name.

[glory]

Bruce has a better track record - but the last time either player was good - Brown was the better hitter...

 

Let's be honest - both players probably suck.........but only one comes with a $13.5M price tag.

 

Keeping a prospect (whoever it was) and saving money by signing Brown instead of trading for Bruce is fine. However, Bruce is far more likely a bounce back candidate than Brown is. The floor is better with Bruce and the ceiling likely is as well, though I agree both sucking is likely as well.

 

My point is, Brown will have to be fixed, while Bruce looked a bit unlucky last year and could conceivably bounce back with the bat.

[Brownie19]

Keeping a prospect (whoever it was) and saving money by signing Brown instead of trading for Bruce is fine. However, Bruce is far more likely a bounce back candidate than Brown is. The floor is better with Bruce and the ceiling likely is as well, though I agree both sucking is likely as well.

 

My point is, Brown will have to be fixed, while Bruce looked a bit unlucky last year and could conceivably bounce back with the bat.

 

How did Bruce look in 2014? unlucky? or like s***...just like he did last year. I have no idea why you think he doesn't need to be fixed after 1000+ PA's of sub 90 wRC+ production. He's as broken as Brown is.

 

That said, I agree that there's a better chance Bruce bounces back (simply due to the longer track record).......however, I think it's still highly unlikely.....I think it's even more unlikely he bounces back to the point where he's significantly better than 600 PA's of Pompey and thus I STRONGLY disagree with spending our remaining budget on this glimmer of hope that Bruce returns to a 3+ WAR player and is a big upgrade over Pompey/Saunders.

[Boxcar]

I always thought Brown had a s***** swing, though obviously I'm just some armchair scout but I wonder if he's just a couple tweaks away from becoming useful.

[SpeedyGose]

I would read that the opposite way. He hasn't even been good against RHP. Almost any random lefty would be better.

 

interesting. the way I was looking at it is he's been pretty awful in his career and still managed to be an average hitter vs righties, if he taps into any of his potential he could be a good platoon guy.

 

taking it you're not a fan of this move?

[Laika]

interesting. the way I was looking at it is he's been pretty awful in his career and still managed to be an average hitter vs righties, if he taps into any of his potential he could be a good platoon guy.

 

taking it you're not a fan of this move?

 

No, I like it a lot. But they are trying to catch lightning in a bottle on a minor league deal, and that's pretty much it I think. If they wanted a potential LHB platoon guy they could have just signed Matt Joyce or someone else like that.

[Boxcar]

Brown really has nothing to bounce back too though. He had 2 good months in 2013. He hit 12 bombs in April that year and didn't take a single walk. He's a career minus WAR player. At least Bruce has over 16 WAR. Bruce's track record is insanely more proven in my mind.

 

Of course, I don't want either player but I think Brown is almost literally the bottom of the barrel.

 

Free agent players are stored in a barrel?

[Brownie19]

Brown really has nothing to bounce back too though. He had 2 good months in 2013. He hit 12 bombs in April that year and didn't take a single walk. He's a career minus WAR player. At least Bruce has over 16 WAR. Bruce's track record is insanely more proven in my mind.

 

Of course, I don't want either player but I think Brown is almost literally the bottom of the barrel.

 

Fair enough - hard to disagree. I just don't think the probability he returns to a 3+ WAR player is worth giving up our remaining budget and/or prospects (although those are both assumptions). Ryan Howard has 20 career WAR - but at some point, you just accept the fact that the good things you did 3-5 years ago is simply irrelevant. Bruce may not be at that point...but he's right on the edge.

[glory]

How did Bruce look in 2014? unlucky? or like s***...just like he did last year. I have no idea why you think he doesn't need to be fixed after 1000+ PA's of sub 90 wRC+ production. He's as broken as Brown is.

 

That said, I agree that there's a better chance Bruce bounces back (simply due to the longer track record).......however, I think it's still highly unlikely.....I think it's even more unlikely he bounces back to the point where he's significantly better than 600 PA's of Pompey and thus I STRONGLY disagree with spending our remaining budget on this glimmer of hope that Bruce returns to a 3+ WAR player and is a big upgrade over Pompey/Saunders.

 

Bruce's BB%, Iso, hard%, gb%, etc, in 2015 was right in line with his percentages when he was good. He actually struck out less in 2015 than when he was good, as well. It's not like his ratios took a nose dive. His BABIP was on the low end. There's a chance his bat could rebound. He was a very good player at one point so there's history to suggest it's possible.

 

Brown is the opposite. He's never been a good player save for one season in 2013 and even that never came close to Bruce's peak. He's a reclamation project without any question. The org will have to fix him. Bruce might require tweaking as well, but he would be a buy low option. There's a difference, which is why one involved giving up assets and the other was a minor league deal.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of either one of them, but they are not the same player.

[TDotttt2005]

I really like this. Obviously no real down side to a minor league deal, but talk about a need for change of scenery guy, Brown is him. Crazy prediction, he starts the most games in LF for the Blue Jays in 2016.

[Orgfiller]

interesting. the way I was looking at it is he's been pretty awful in his career and still managed to be an average hitter vs righties, if he taps into any of his potential he could be a good platoon guy.

 

taking it you're not a fan of this move?

I don't think it's possible to dislike a minor-league deal with a spring invite, much less for a player who was once a top prospect and had a decent season less than 5 years ago.

[Abomination]

Christ - why didn't we just trade for Coghlan? only owed $4.8M this year (FA next year) and has been 2.4 - 3.3 WAR the past 2 years. We could have offered him a QO after the year and watched the O's sign him for no reason and give us their draft pick.

 

This is a minor league deal. There's nothing stopping us from still picking up someone like Bruce or Coghlan (who would probably cost a bit to acquire). Don't look at a minor league signing as closing the door on something else.

 

Note: I said that before I saw that the A's got Coghlan for a hot steaming pile lol. They're probably gonna end up flipping him at a real nice profit.

[Sammy225]

This is a minor league deal. There's nothing stopping us from still picking up someone like Bruce or Coghlan (who would probably cost a bit to acquire). Don't look at a minor league signing as closing the door on something else.

 

Exactly the way i see it as a Cararra replacement lol

[G-Snarls]

I really like this. Obviously no real down side to a minor league deal, but talk about a need for change of scenery guy, Brown is him. Crazy prediction, he starts the most games in LF for the Blue Jays in 2016.

 

Noted

 

I am going to make one too in the Sanchez thread

[KingKat]

Exactly the way i see it as a Cararra replacement lol

 

Yeah given that Pompey and Pillar are both good CFs, Dom's defensive limitation don't really get in the way of him bumping ahead of Carrera and Lake.

[Jimcanuck]

3 pages more than enough for this thread

[Angrioter]

Junior Lake >> Domonic

[SpeedyGose]

I don't think it's possible to dislike a minor-league deal with a spring invite, much less for a player who was once a top prospect and had a decent season less than 5 years ago.

 

Agreed. My original comment is what I am hoping happens, that he can be tweaked a bit in a positive way. Hopefully resulting in a useful piece for the 25 man

[Brownie19]

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of either one of them, but they are not the same player.

 

Correct - one costs you $13.5M, the other does - which has been a very important part of my debate which you seem to be ignoring...

[Dick_Pole]

I don't know why there's Bruce versus Brown comparisons.

 

Brown = signed for nothing and no guarantee of a roster spot

Bruce = something given up for him, plus salary and a guarantee of a roster spot

 

This signing has no impact on whether the Jays continue to pursue Bruce or not. In this instance it doesn't matter who is better or who has more comeback potential. This deal with Brown has no downside. The Bruce trade could have had a lot of downside depending on how it would have turned out.