JA Happ Signing: Good/Bad?

[GD]

So he's proven but you're depending on a rebound.

 

I see what you're getting at but that specific part of his post was fine imo. Plenty of proven players have bad seasons. Matt Holliday and Jayson Werth are very proven vets, but they're coming off of awful seasons. You have to hope for a rebound.

[Boxcar]

I see what you're getting at but that specific part of his post was fine imo. Plenty of proven players have bad seasons. Matt Holliday and Jayson Werth are very proven vets, but they're coming off of awful seasons. You have to hope for a rebound.

 

Cliff Lee is a proven ace. Let's break the bank.

[Laika]

I see what you're getting at but that specific part of his post was fine imo. Plenty of proven players have bad seasons. Matt Holliday and Jayson Werth are very proven vets, but they're coming off of awful seasons. You have to hope for a rebound.

 

It's not like Shark was amazing in Chicago. His RA9 skeez were not demonstrated even if the fWAR was good.

 

His awesome 2014 kind of looks like an aberration.

 

I mean he's good. I don't know if I would call him a strong #2 IRL.

[Maahfaace]

Cliff Lee is a proven ace. Let's break the bank.

 

Happ could potentially turn right back into 1 win pitcher he was in the past, and at 12 per could look like a shiat signing. He has surpassed 170IP once in his career, it's not like he is super durable. Don't forget he is also creeping up in age (33). Chavez/Hutch both project to be around the same as Happ at a fraction of the cost, wasted money for more than likely zero upgrade. I really dont understand all the praise for a signing thats banking on half a season of success, it really isnt that great of a deal.

 

Shark hovering around 3 wins is decent for 18 per with the potential for a bigger season. The 5 year term isnt as attractive, but he should at least put up 200+ IP for the first few seasons.

 

For 6 million more per season?, I'd take Shark's potential over Happ's any time.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Maahfaace

[Angrioter]

Shark vs Happ is fanboy-esque

 

Happ isn't a durable starter, and his ceiling isn't great. Shark for 5 year is a dangerous sign, but he's a good starter for at least 2 or 3 more years.

[GD]

Cliff Lee is a proven ace. Let's break the bank.

 

Your dumn

[Followthelight]

JA Happ is out lord savior, he will bring us to the promised land .................lol.

[Followthelight]

top 5 payroll when you consider the Canadian dollar is s***.

 

Yet still a bargain bin pitching staff...ugh.

[Praxis]

Yet still a bargain bin pitching staff...ugh.

 

I like the Happ and Estrada signings and the term/money for both of them is not exactly ludicrous.

 

However our moves since losing the ALCS haven't really been all that inspiring either and I hope something bigger is around the corner.

[BigCecil]

I like the Happ and Estrada signings and the term/money for both of them is not exactly ludicrous.

 

However our moves since losing the ALCS haven't really been all that inspiring either and I hope something bigger is around the corner.

 

As I see the numbers I like our signings and deal even more. They are responsible and will give us some flexibility to make a move to bolster the team for a run if we are in it.

[SAAviour]

Two very good one inning relievers just got almost 8 mil per, Happ at 12 again looks good.

[THANOS]

As I see the numbers I like our signings and deal even more. They are responsible and will give us some flexibility to make a move to bolster the team for a run if we are in it.

 

I've never liked that philosophy. Let's not spend in prospects in the off-season while it's cheaper and time is on our side, instead let's spend mid-season when it's a sellers market.

 

If we're going to pull off a trade I'd rather not do it when the cost will be way higher at the trade-deadline. Knowing Shapiro and Atkins, I don't think they would want to be "buyers" at the deadline, given the state of our farm currently.

[Frenchsoup]

I've never liked that philosophy. Let's not spend in prospects in the off-season while it's cheaper and time is on our side, instead let's spend mid-season when it's a sellers market.

 

If we're going to pull off a trade I'd rather not do it when the cost will be way higher at the trade-deadline. Knowing Shapiro and Atkins, I don't think they would want to be "buyers" at the deadline, given the state of our farm currently.

 

They better be buyers if we're in it.

[BigCecil]

I've never liked that philosophy. Let's not spend in prospects in the off-season while it's cheaper and time is on our side, instead let's spend mid-season when it's a sellers market.

 

If we're going to pull off a trade I'd rather not do it when the cost will be way higher at the trade-deadline. Knowing Shapiro and Atkins, I don't think they would want to be "buyers" at the deadline, given the state of our farm currently.

 

Hey. I don't disagree. The reality is Rogers has the financial means, even with our dollar, to up the payroll now considerably from its already fairly large level. They aren't going to so im hoping if we are in it they don't stand pat. 2015 was an enigma to me at the deadline as was passing the hat for a 1 year deal on santana a couple yrs ago.

[baloojayz]

Two very good one inning relievers just got almost 8 mil per, Happ at 12 again looks good.

 

Atleast for me, it was never about the Happ contract looking bad/good but more that it meant we were not going to go after #1/2 SP in FA. The Happ contract itself means very little, we either overpaid slightly or get a little bit of value.

[Frenchsoup]

Atleast for me, it was never about the Happ contract looking bad/good but more that it meant we were not going to go after #1/2 SP in FA. The Happ contract itself means very little, we either overpaid slightly or get a little bit of value.

 

So you were basically expecting a Price or Greinke or a trade for Carassco.

[Laika]

So you were basically expecting a Price or Greinke or a trade for Carassco.

 

Well a lot of people liked to the look of some of the SP2/3 guys like Lackey and Iwakuma

[THANOS]

Hey. I don't disagree. The reality is Rogers has the financial means, even with our dollar, to up the payroll now considerably from its already fairly large level. They aren't going to so im hoping if we are in it they don't stand pat. 2015 was an enigma to me at the deadline as was passing the hat for a 1 year deal on santana a couple yrs ago.

 

I would imagine they bought forward contracts early this year when our dollar started dropping like a rock so that we hedged the discrepancies pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised if payroll actually did go up a lot but Shapiro/La Cava/Atkins are planning on trying to work out extensions with JD, Stroman, Edwin, and JB this off-season which could eat up a lot of the increased budget.

[wamco]

I'd love a one year deal for latos

[Frenchsoup]

Well a lot of people liked to the look of some of the SP2/3 guys like Lackey and Iwakuma

 

Iwakuma will cost a bit more. Is he linked with draft pick comp as well? I prefer Happ to Lackey personally.

[Laika]

Iwakuma will cost a bit more. Is he linked with draft pick comp as well? I prefer Happ to Lackey personally.

 

Well of course he'll cost more, he's better.

 

Do you mean that in a nutshell you think Happ is more talented than Lackey?

[BigCecil]

I would imagine they bought forward contracts early this year when our dollar started dropping like a rock so that we hedged the discrepancies pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised if payroll actually did go up a lot but Shapiro/La Cava/Atkins are planning on trying to work out extensions with JD, Stroman, Edwin, and JB this off-season which could eat up a lot of the increased budget.

 

It's probably early on Stro with the control we have. Good luck to us with the other 3. Only ext I see possible there for anything remotely reasonable is Edwin and not optimistic on that. I see both JB and Edwin moving on.

[Frenchsoup]

Well of course he'll cost more, he's better.

 

Do you mean that in a nutshell you think Happ is more talented than Lackey?

 

I think Happ will be better the next 2 years with the contracts being very similar.

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't think I'd want to wait too much longer to extend Stroman. Prices for pitching are increasing a ton so the longer the wait you are just going to have to pay more. Cleveland signed a lot of pre Arb guys to extensions so I would think they would want to do the same here.

[BigCecil]

It's probably early on Stro with the control we have. Good luck to us with the other 3. Only ext I see possible there for anything remotely reasonable is Edwin and not optimistic on that. I see both JB and Edwin moving on.

 

I don't think I'd want to wait too much longer to extend Stroman. Prices for pitching are increasing a ton so the longer the wait you are just going to have to pay more. Cleveland signed a lot of pre Arb guys to extensions so I would think they would want to do the same here.

 

Fair. But Id like to gain more information on him than 160ish IP in MLB. 30 more starts this year and agreed it may be time to talk ext. Hopefully we only have one Romero in our lifetime.

 

The Rays deal with Chris Archer looks very smart right now.

[Sorrow]

I'm liking the Happ and Estrada signings more and more as this winter goes on. Estrada is a short term solution and fills a hole we had. Happ is basically our replacement for RA Dickey in 2017 and 2018, though I don't believe he'll provide Dickey's value.

[burlingtonbandit]

Fair. But Id like to gain more information on him than 160ish IP in MLB. 30 more starts this year and agreed it may be time to talk ext. Hopefully we only have one Romero in our lifetime.

 

The Rays deal with Chris Archer looks very smart right now.

 

If Stroman puts together a 3-4 Win season this year then he likely will cost another $20+ Million. What more information do you need, really? You should know what kind of pitcher Marcus Stroman is by now.

[BigCecil]

If Stroman puts together a 3-4 Win season this year then he likely will cost another $20+ Million. What more information do you need, really? You should know what kind of pitcher Marcus Stroman is by now.

 

I may be missing something here. Have a large number of MLB pitchers been signed to long extensions after 160 IP? Is this a thing?

[THANOS]

If Stroman puts together a 3-4 Win season this year then he likely will cost another $20+ Million. What more information do you need, really? You should know what kind of pitcher Marcus Stroman is by now.

 

Or better yet, the kind of pitcher he can be. His entire minors career paints the picture of a 10K/9, 2.2BB/9, <3FIP potential. I think you do the extension this off-season for sure.

 

I would imagine Atkins will have all his best development coaches explaining his thought process to Stroman/Sanchez/Osuna that pitching to contact is not a good philosophy.

[burlingtonbandit]

I may be missing something here. Have a large number of MLB pitchers been signed to long extensions after 160 IP? Is this a thing?

 

Well Stroman will be a Super 2 and will already be in his first year of arb. next season so the IP is a bit misleading since he missed almost all of last season. Archer and Holland are the first 2 pitchers that come to mind in terms of around the same service time. Matt Moore signed really early but I think that wasn't even after a full season.

 

I just think the earlier you sign him the more money you save especially with the way pitcher contracts are going.