Awful Carrasco Trade Ideas Thread

[Atothe]

Not Salazar, Carrasco. Cleveland would hang up.

 

 

[Mod note: This thread was curated because identical Carrasco-Pillar concepts were being discussed in every thread.]

Edited November 10, 2015 by NorthOf49

[Dr. Dinger]

AFAIK, Salazar was never discussed. Carrasco was discussed, and the asking price was Stroman +. Edited November 10, 2015 by NorthOf49

[Grant77]

AFAIK, Salazar was never discussed. Carrasco was discussed, and the asking price was Stroman +.

 

Maybe it's just me, but is an anagram really necessary for a 12 letter phrase? Sometimes they make things harder to read, not easier.

[TilsonBritoFan]

BTW I meant Carrasco not Salazar in my OP. My bad, I get the two mixed up

[THANOS]

1st of all it was for Carrasco not Salazar.

 

It was reported that a package of Hoffman, Norris, and Pompey for Carrasco was nearly accepted. Because it was mid-season, and Cleveland was still very much in it, they decided to ask for Stroman+ instead.

 

At the time, Norris was a fringe major league pitcher, with tons of upside, having a poor MLB/AAA season from both a results and stuff standpoint.

 

Hoffman was our best pitching prospect and just returning from Tommy John, and may have been a couple years away from contributing still.

 

Pompey was our best hitting prospect at the time and had been demoted to AA, but had sorted out his plate approach and looked to be on the rise again.

 

Since then, Norris and Hoffman are gone, and Pompey has, in all likelihood, increased his value.

 

Given that it is now in the off-season, and Cleveland missed the post-season, I would offer this package.

 

 

 

Toronto gets:

 

- Carlos Carrasco

 

 

Cleveland gets:

 

- Aaron Sanchez (Similar value to Norris at this point if AA can sell his starting potential to them. Maybe they could convert him into a strikeout pitcher instead of trying for contact predominately)

 

- Connor Greene and Sean Reid-Foley (lower value than Hoffman as individuals but loads of potential as starting prospects and could create more value combined. Both are strikeout prospects which Cleveland covets.)

 

- Kevin Pillar (major league proven CF with elite defense coming off a 4+ WAR season. AA could sell high on Pillar and get more value than he would get from Pompey. Cleveland really needs defense so that may put more value in Pillar than a defensive heavy team would.)

 

I think this would be heavily considered by Cleveland and shouldn't be brushed aside as quickly as it will be. AA has gotten more for much less in the past, a la the Donaldson trade, and Carrasco was a very mediocre reliever with average peripherals in early 2014 and doesn't have a long track record of dominance. He's also 28 years old as a pitcher and could begin his decline in a few years.

[THANOS]

I don't take most of the posts in this thread seriously...until I recall what the Jays gave up for Donaldson then I recognize that anything is possible.

 

Exactly and Donaldson was coming off two straight seasons where he combined to contribute over 14 WAR. The only players ahead of him were Mike Trout and Andrew McCutchen. Both of them won an MVP in one of those years.

 

Carrasco, on the other hand, debuted in 2009 and produced only 1.2 WAR over the next 4 seasons with poor peripherals. He will be 29 years old by the start of the 2016 season. It is only recently, beginning mid-2014, that he became an elite starting pitcher.

 

I don't know why people in this thread are dismissing some of the proposals here considering the information above that we are privy to and the fact that AA is a ninja and always seems to get more for less in trades.

 

I honestly believe Sanchez, Pillar, Reid-Foley, and Greene could get it done, and wouldn't be laughable like many members here would suggest. Carrasco was worth 4.8 WAR this year while Pillar, alone, was worth 4.3 WAR. Sanchez was worth 0.3 WAR in minimal innings as a reliever. The trade would be pretty much even, with plenty of potential value on Cleveland's end if Reid-Foley and/or Greene pan out.

Edited October 13, 2015 by THANOS

[GD]

They turned down Hoffman, Norris and Alford. Come on now

[THANOS]

They turned down Hoffman, Norris and Alford. Come on now

 

It was reported that it was "nearly" accepted. The only reason it would have been rejected after that was because Cleveland wanted to compete in 2015 and asked for Stroman instead because his ceiling was higher.

 

Now, the 2015 regular season is over and Carrasco will be 29 entering the 2016 season, so his price could be going down even more. With the reasoning I presented above, I don't see how my offer would be laughable as some here would suggest.

[THANOS]

Thing is, we don't have those type of assets anymore. Sorry, just saw your follow up post. It'll still take more than that.

 

Edit: You posted Salazar again, lol.

 

Read my responses, it could very well be done.

[L54]

I honestly believe Sanchez, Pillar, Reid-Foley, and Greene could get it done, and wouldn't be laughable like many members here would suggest. Carrasco was worth 4.8 WAR this year while Pillar, alone, was worth 4.3 WAR. Sanchez was worth 0.3 WAR in minimal innings as a reliever. The trade would be pretty much even, with plenty of potential value on Cleveland's end if Reid-Foley and/or Greene pan out.

 

The problem with this scenario is that a progressive front office like Cleveland isn't going to view Pillar as a true talent 4 WAR center fielder moving forward, probably closer to 2-2.5 WAR. That type of player can't (won't) be the best MLB established piece for a guy like Carrasco. Pillar would have been a great guy to sell high on if this team had finished in 3rd place, but I think this team is better served holding onto him with the uncertainty in CF after him. Elite defenders up the middle are the building blocks of elite team defenses.

[THANOS]

The problem with this scenario is that a progressive front office like Cleveland isn't going to view Pillar as a true talent 4 WAR center fielder moving forward, probably closer to 2-2.5 WAR. That type of player can't (won't) be the best MLB established piece for a guy like Carrasco. Pillar would have been a great guy to sell high on if this team had finished in 3rd place, but I think this team is better served holding onto him with the uncertainty in CF after him. Elite defenders up the middle are the building blocks of elite team defenses.

 

Great response!

 

These are very fair points but one thing you didn't mention is that Carrasco will be 29 entering the 2016 season and was only worth anything significant the past two years. From 2009-2013 Carrasco only provided 1.2 WAR as a mediocre reliever with poor peripherals.

 

I think, entering this off-season, Carrasco's value will only drop, given his age, and lack of track record as an elite arm.

 

Pillar's true value may be lower than this year, but Sanchez' could be much higher if successfully transitioned into a starter (his last few starts before injury were promising from a WHIP point of view), which he will be next season. If Cleveland's pitching coaches could transition him into a strikeout starter, which they have done countless other times, his FIP/xFIP could dip exponentially. This could end with Sanchez contributing 2-3 potential WAR in 2016. This would make the deal fair even with Pillar's value dipping to the 2.5 range like you suggested.

 

Now add in the potential value that Greene and Reid-Foley could give them in the future, and it's a huge potential win for Cleveland.

[Jimcanuck]

Great response!

 

These are very fair points but one thing you didn't mention is that Carrasco will be 29 entering the 2016 season and was only worth anything significant the past two years. From 2009-2013 Carrasco only provided 1.2 WAR as a mediocre reliever with poor peripherals.

 

I think, entering this off-season, Carrasco's value will only drop, given his age, and lack of track record as an elite arm.

 

Pillar's true value may be lower than this year, but Sanchez' could be much higher if successfully transitioned into a starter (his last few starts before injury were promising from a WHIP point of view), which he will be next season. If Cleveland's pitching coaches could transition him into a strikeout starter, which they have done countless other times, his FIP/xFIP could dip exponentially. This could end with Sanchez contributing 2-3 potential WAR in 2016. This would make the deal fair even with Pillar's value dipping to the 2.5 range like you suggested.

 

Now add in the potential value that Greene and Reid-Foley could give them in the future, and it's a huge potential win for Cleveland.

 

If the Indians put Carrasco on the trade market it will be a bidding war. I doubt Pillar, Sanchez, Greene wins that war.

 

I see the Jays matching up better with the Mets in a deal for a starter, anyway.

[L54]

Puig for Carrasco

 

Who says no?

[gruber92]

If EE gets dealt I just can't see it being to an NL club where he was to play the field everyday.

 

True.. Maybe Cleveland for Carrasco might be a real possibility, but it has to be done over the winter.

[BTS]

True.. Maybe Cleveland for Carrasco might be a real possibility, but it has to be done over the winter.

 

Carrasco is a lot more valuable than Edwin. It isn't even close.

[reedjohnsonfan]

How has this thread gone 7 pages? The Jays don't have enough to get Carrasco or Salazar... I thought this was pretty obvious.

[L54]

The Indians could just pay him in 2017 and keep Carrasco if they really wanted Edwin.

[GD]

I think the most likely pitcher for Cleveland to trade is actually Corey Kluber.

 

I think Cleveland's management is dumb enough to put some stock in his horrible Won-Loss record. Plus he's age 29. His contract isn't bad but it's a lot more expensive than the other young guns.

 

Idk why Cleveland's FO seems like the type to put stock into W/L to you, but I would probably trade for Kluber before Carrasco or Salazar.

[RealAccountant]

How many people here would trade Donaldson for Carrasco and Salazer

[Frenchsoup]

No it isn't.

 

Donaldson starting to make money. Carrasco and Salazar are both pretty awesome with a ton of upside, I'd do it.

[Frenchsoup]

Carrasco and Salazar combined for 7.9 WAR while Donaldson had 8.7. But why keep an elite position player when you can trade him for two starting pitchers with histories of major injuries? Any time you can trade one elite asset for two lesser, riskier assets, you do it.

 

I think your underestimating how much money Donaldson will get in arb. Carrasco you have 5 years of cheap control. Salazar you have 3-4 years of control, that is a lot of control over two frontline pitchers. You will also have money to replace Donald at 3rd base. Anyways this will never happen lol.

[Frenchsoup]

The issue is its 2 pitchers who could blow out their arm and then you are left with paying them money for nothing. Control doesn't matter for pitchers in the same way it does for position players.

 

Well you obviously have to believe in there mechanics/ability to stay healthy. Carrasco has been a bit injury prone, some of it bad luck(hit in the head last year). Salazar has been fine though. It's a risky trade from both sides, which is why it wouldn't happen.

[fireballW]

Shapiro is an idiot. If he was any smart at all he would have made the Carrasco trade to the Jays.

 

But honestly, Carrasco seems primed to be a stud and Shapiro was shopping him as if he didn't even know. We really trust this guy more than AA? Sure Shapiro might make a few less mistakes but he also hits less home runs.

[Angrioter]

Jays get: Lindor and Carrasco

 

Indians get: Edwin, Pompey, Hutchison, s***

[thatoneguy]

I feared Cleveland would win the wild card this year, then ride their rotation to the World Series....I hope Shapiro had something to do with that rotation and can build us one just like it in one off season, we will win 100 games.

 

Pull Salazar or Carrasco away from his old team would be a prim and proper start.

[baubau]

Pull Salazar or Carrasco away from his old team would be a prim and proper start.

 

Pft. He'll get EE for Quintana and Dickey + Revere for Ross from Padres. #ibelieveinShapro... And may have played Mlb 14 too many times today.

[abola2121]

I'm seriously hoping he uses his influence to pry away Carrasco for cheap.

[THANOS]

Can't see that making the Jays better. You save maybe 10 million for having Desmond assuming he would even sign here. And then you would have to have a 2 Win upgrade in the rotation to justify moving Tulo.

 

I would do it if Tulo + salary relief gets us Carlos Carrasco. Then if we sign Desmond, we improve overall.

[THANOS]

I think Shapiro is much more likely to trade Revere. I liked what Revere brought to the table though. I wonder even if Shapiro would have the balls to trade him or Pillar purely for prospects.

 

I could see Shapiro trade Revere just for prospects but definitely not Pillar. If Pillar is traded it will be as part of a package to land a cheap and controllable elite pitcher like Carrasco/Salazar/Martinez/Quintana/etc.

[THANOS]

Say Pillar is roughly a 3 WAR player for the next 5 years in which he gets paid something like 6-10-14 in arbitration. ( Numbers probably will be off but for argument's sake using round numbers)

 

So you are getting around 15 Wins for 30 Million. At 8 million/WAR that is a $110 Million asset. Even if the numbers are off a little who is giving up a $100 million asset for Pillar? Thats why I can't see him getting traded IMO and because he fills a hole on the team.

 

I think it depends on the team need. Cleveland, for instance, has a strong need for DRS in the outfield, so Pillar would carry more value to them than other teams.

 

I just read an interesting article on jaysjournal about potential trade proposals to acquire Carrasco/Salazar, and, although they undervalued them, they made an interesting point about us taking on the $17.5M contract of Chris Johnson as well, to lower the cost of the deal. I think taking on Johnson's 2-yr deal which projects to be $9M/yr of dead money could actually help us land Carrasco for cheaper.