Sooo... when is it appropriate for AA to announce his deal with the Marlins?

[BTS]

More to the point, nobody is better with a smaller payroll. If you can succeed with a small payroll, that's great, but you can always do more with a bigger payroll and the same methodology.

 

Yes. People arguing otherwise is consistently annoying.

[fireballW]

More to the point, nobody is better with a smaller payroll. If you can succeed with a small payroll, that's great, but you can always do more with a bigger payroll and the same methodology.

 

I guess that is your opinion. Like Shapiro is saying though, there is more chance to take risks with a larger payroll. Riskier moves lead to the more possibilities of bad looking moves. There just really seems to be a human element that a lot of posters here don't see eye to eye with me on. Honestly, I'd think it is a pretty easy concept that certain GMs would end up doing a lot dumber things with more money. With an 80 million dollar budget instead of 130 I'd say AA probably would have done most things the same but not made the Marlins or Mets trades. The Donaldson deal didn't even set us back much money. Maybe as BTS points out he'd have trouble filling out the roster, but I think most of our lineup would be set. Of course the butterfly effect could have changed a lot, but for the most part you'd have seen all the good points and none of the weaknesses.

 

Also on the human element, again I think people are underestimating how much harder it would be to get those bench players to Toronto. Any good ones that are only going to make a few million will have their choice of a few teams and likely not choose Canada. This again seems like something that people here will just brush off, but probably has a big effect on filling up a bench. Doesn't excuse it all though admittedly.

[Inklink]

So was I... expected him to reply though... lol

 

Hnnnngggg

 

-inklink99

[fireballW]

Yes. People arguing otherwise is consistently annoying.

 

It's equally as annoying for us that you guys can't understand that people might make different decisions when they have a wad to blow. It's actually really shocking that as much as some people here know about baseball stats, the are equally as clueless about how basic logic or elements of human personalities.

[fireballW]

If only they didn't trade half the pieces from the Jays.

 

Which they wouldn't have with an 80 million dollar payroll. Hence you would all think that AA was an even better GM than you currently do if payroll never jumped and Beeston said payroll wasn't there when he went for the Marlins trade. Considering his moves and which ones would have been feasible on an 80 million budget our team could be

 

DH - EE

C - D'Arnaud

1B - Smoak / Collabello

2B - Travis

3B - Donaldson

SS - Blank / goins

LF - Pompey

CF - Pillar

RF - Bautista

BN - Saunders

BN - Marisnick (he'd like be in the oufield but I'm putting him here)

 

P - Stroman

P - Syndergaard

P - Sanchez

P - Osuna

P - Hoffman

Cecil, Castro and a whole host of other potential guys.

 

Yeah yeah this is hypothetical but it is also a very realistic take on what our team could potentially look like IF we had a smaller budget. AA is not even close to the only GM who would trade off more prospects for higher priced, MLB ready players when given a higher budget. As usual though, we have the same old posters talking in absolutes. 100% this is how it would be and there is no chance it could be any other way.

[BTS]

It's equally as annoying for us that you guys can't understand that people might make different decisions when they have a wad to blow. It's actually really shocking that as much as some people here know about baseball stats, the are equally as clueless about how basic logic or elements of human personalities.

 

I remember when people said that about Friedman, then he crushed it last year in LA. If you have smart people making decisions, they're not going to turn into mouth-breathing idiots when given more resources to work with. They'll take more risks, and the failures will be bigger (see: Brandon McCarthy signing, maybe), but there's no reason to think they'll just abandon the skills that made them effective on a smaller budget.

[Brownie19]

I remember when people said that about Friedman, then he crushed it last year in LA. If you have smart people making decisions, they're not going to turn into mouth-breathing idiots when given more resources to work with. They'll take more risks, and the failures will be bigger (see: Brandon McCarthy signing, maybe), but there's no reason to think they'll just abandon the skills that made them effective on a smaller budget.

 

What's Friedman done that I should be raving about again? Traded Kemp for Grandel, traded for Alex Wood, signed Anderson, McCarthy and Howie Kendrick. Did I miss something interesting?

[Terminator]

I don't see AA take a job with the Marlins. AA is clearly very particular about the "fit" and I don't see him fitting in with Loria.

[Governator]

I don't see AA take a job with the Marlins. AA is clearly very particular about the "fit" and I don't see him fitting in with Loria.

 

What if that fit paid him twice as much money over the same term?

[Terminator]

What's Friedman done that I should be raving about again? Traded Kemp for Grandel, traded for Alex Wood, signed Anderson, McCarthy and Howie Kendrick. Did I miss something interesting?

 

His moves were fine and he's a very good GM, maybe the best.

 

That said, his skill set is completely overrated and he's hailed as some sort of genius when in reality there are thousands of people out there who could do a similar job to him by diving in to advanced statistics like he has done. There might be people on this board who could do it.

 

Where Friedman rises to the top is because ownership around baseball is bad. The Phillies suck because of Ruben Amaro no doubt, but they also suck because their ownership hired him. Having good ownership is more important than having a good GM. Think about it this way - the Rays can overcome the loss of Friedman but could they overcome the loss of Sternberg? I'm not sure that they could. If the Rays had a bad owner not only would they be consistent cellar dwellers they would likely leave Tampa or just fold altogether. Loria killed the Expos, it wasn't the fault of bad GMs.

 

In summary what I am trying to say is that Beane, Theo, Friedman, etc. are all very smart guys but their skills aren't that exclusive or special.

[Terminator]

What if that fit paid him twice as much money over the same term?

 

I'm sure it's possible he'd take the job. I don't know how much money influences him. Sounded like he had a pretty sweet deal with the Jays lined up since it included that option but he turned it down.

[saskjayfan]

I remember when people said that about Friedman, then he crushed it last year in LA. If you have smart people making decisions, they're not going to turn into mouth-breathing idiots when given more resources to work with. They'll take more risks, and the failures will be bigger (see: Brandon McCarthy signing, maybe), but there's no reason to think they'll just abandon the skills that made them effective on a smaller budget.

 

how much did Friedman crush it with the Dee Gordon trade?

[Governator]

I'm sure it's possible he'd take the job. I don't know how much money influences him. Sounded like he had a pretty sweet deal with the Jays lined up since it included that option but he turned it down.

 

Making a lot of money, living in Miami while paying no income tax to manage a baseball team sounds appealing to most Canadians. Not to mention he should have some payroll flexibility to do his job from the get go.

[BTS]

how much did Friedman crush it with the Dee Gordon trade?

 

Remains to be seen, but that will probably end well for him.

[Ehjays]

I don't see AA take a job with the Marlins. AA is clearly very particular about the "fit" and I don't see him fitting in with Loria.

 

I hope he does take that job. Then we can rape his farm system in Miami for an aging player he's always liked.

[L54]

If AA had landed Carrasco, would everyone still be calling for his head for selfishly "emptying" the farm for his and Beeston's final hurrah?

[Frenchsoup]

If AA had landed Carrasco, would everyone still be calling for his head for selfishly "emptying" the farm for his and Beeston's final hurrah?

 

I would really like to see the outline of that deal. To see which prospects of ours, Shapiro overvalued.

[Dr. Dinger]

I would really like to see the outline of that deal. To see which prospects of ours, Shapiro overvalued.

 

Stroman+ was the asking price on Carrasco.

[Frenchsoup]

Stroman+ was the asking price on Carrasco.

 

Well that's stupid by Shapiro.

[Frenchsoup]

Stroman+ was the asking price on Carrasco.

 

Where did u see that? It doesn't make any sense.

[Dr. Dinger]

Where did u see that? It doesn't make any sense.

 

I was told by a source. Feel free to believe it or not.

[BTS]

Well that's stupid by Shapiro.

 

How can you say that without knowing the +? Obviously Stroman for Carrasco would be a heist for Cleveland, but with enough added it could swing the other way.

[Frenchsoup]

How can you say that without knowing the +? Obviously Stroman for Carrasco would be a heist for Cleveland, but with enough added it could swing the other way.

 

Cleveland wanted the plus.

[burlingtonbandit]

Stroman+ was the asking price on Carrasco.

 

I thought it was reported it was Hoffman, Pompey, Alford?

[The Cats Ass]

Well that's stupid by Shapiro.

 

Or he was testing to see how desperate AA was. Stroman was out for the year and AA was looking for a starter to make a run and save his job at that time.

[Frenchsoup]

I thought it was reported it was Hoffman, Pompey, Alford?

 

This makes sense.

[BTS]

Cleveland wanted the plus.

 

Of course. Why was that stupid?

[Dr. Dinger]

How can you say that without knowing the +? Obviously Stroman for Carrasco would be a heist for Cleveland, but with enough added it could swing the other way.

 

I like Stroman, but Carrasco is a much more proven commodity. Hard to call that a heist when we know Carrasco is an ace, while Stroman merely has that upside.

[L54]

My point was more intended to illustrate that AA didn't necessarily look for a rental from the beginning. If he had been able to land someone with some years of control the perception of his trade deadline would be different.

 

Purely hypothetical obviously, but to think he just said f*** it lets get all the rentals seems a little extreme.

[Dr. Dinger]

I thought it was reported it was Hoffman, Pompey, Alford?

 

I'm only repeating what I was told by someone whom I believe would have more knowledge of the situation than the rest of us.