Free Agent Pitching

[burlingtonbandit]

Huh? He's had 190+ IP in the past 3 years, 2 of which is in the NL where they get pulled early.

 

Numbers don't lie. He's throw 200 innings once in the last 10 years. I'm not sure you want to rely on a guy who will be pitching in his 43 year old season.

[fatcowxlive]

Numbers don't lie. He's throw 200 innings once in the last 10 years. I'm not sure you want to rely on a guy who will be pitching in his 43 year old season.

 

Well RA is going into 41! RA walks the park and relies on the knuckleball. When that pitch is flat it becomes batting practice. The worst BB/9 put up in the past 4 years by Colon is 1.37 BB/9. He should be fine. I'm more inclined to trust Colon who's had recent and past history of success than RA who's a bang for 200+ IP and a mediocre mid-4 FIP

[burlingtonbandit]

Well RA is going into 41! RA walks the park and relies on the knuckleball. When that pitch is flat it becomes batting practice. The worst BB/9 put up in the past 4 years by Colon is 1.37 BB/9. He should be fine. I'm more inclined to trust Colon who's had recent and past history of success than RA who's a bang for 200+ IP and a mediocre mid-4 FIP

 

Why would you care what his FIP is when he routinely outperforms it?

[burlingtonbandit]

RA Dickey RA9-WAR

 

2014- 2.6

2015-3.6

 

Bartolo Colon

 

2014-0.9

2015-1.2

 

Pretty clear who I would want to have for similar money. Dickey's numbers are coming from the AL East while Colon in the NL East as well.

[Chappy]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to exercise Dickey's option. It's team friendly and given the strength of our offence, he could easily win 15 games next year. Not bad for $12M on a 1 year deal.

[fatcowxlive]

RA Dickey RA9-WAR

 

2014- 2.6

2015-3.6

 

Bartolo Colon

 

2014-0.9

2015-1.2

 

Pretty clear who I would want to have for similar money. Dickey's numbers are coming from the AL East while Colon in the NL East as well.

 

Isn't RA9-WAR skewed in favour of RA Dickey?

 

Dickey fWAR

 

13' - 1.7

14' - 1.7

15' - 2.1

 

Colon fWAR

 

13' - 3.8

14' - 2.8

15' - 2.6

 

We should keep comparisons based on one metric, not skew the metric to something else in favour of a player lol

[BTS]

It definitely makes sense to evaluate Dickey based on RA-9 WAR. He's a knuckleballer who is great defensively. He's probably the biggest DIPS beater in the game.

[burlingtonbandit]

Isn't RA9-WAR skewed in favour of RA Dickey?

 

Dickey fWAR

 

13' - 1.7

14' - 1.7

15' - 2.1

 

Colon fWAR

 

13' - 3.8

14' - 2.8

15' - 2.6

 

We should keep comparisons based on one metric, not skew the metric to something else in favour of a player lol

 

Its been proven that Dickey shouldn't be evaluated using FWAR because he routinely beats FIP year after year. Why evaluate someone on a stat that doesn't show how good they truly are?

 

Clear to me Dickey is the better pitcher which doesn't even include the boost the knuckleball effect gives him.

[burlingtonbandit]

That said I don't want Martin catching Dickey routinely. Hopefully they can find a backup that can catch Dickey and be more useful than Thole.

[Chappy]

We should keep comparisons based on one metric, not skew the metric to something else in favour of a player lol

 

Interesting how this metric heavily favours your argument while ignoring another which helps to identify inefficiencies in your chosen metric.

[GD]

Isn't RA9-WAR skewed in favour of RA Dickey?

 

and fWAR is skewed against Dickey

 

WAR isn't a super stat

[fatcowxlive]

Its been proven that Dickey shouldn't be evaluated using FWAR because he routinely beats FIP year after year. Why evaluate someone on a stat that doesn't show how good they truly are?

 

Clear to me Dickey is the better pitcher which doesn't even include the boost the knuckleball effect gives him.

Interesting how this metric heavily favours your argument while ignoring another which helps to identify inefficiencies in your chosen metric.

and fWAR is skewed against Dickey

 

WAR isn't a super stat

 

How do you evaluate them fairly in this case? If RA-9 favours Dickey more and fWAR is used to evaluate essentially everyone else what's the best way to compare? Dickeys RA-9 vs. Colon's fWAR?

[GD]

If there are legitimate reasons as to why RA9 is more effective than FIP for Dickey, you use RA9... RA9 vs FIP

[fatcowxlive]

If there are legitimate reasons as to why RA9 is more effective than FIP for Dickey, you use RA9... RA9 vs FIP

 

Alright so Dickey vs. Colon:

 

2.4 vs. 3.8

2.6 vs. 2.8

3.6 vs. 2.4

 

Interesting, especially this season Dickey came back. I still think that if Dickey brings great value on the market, trade him and sign Colon.

[RealAccountant]

Colon will get crushed in the ALae

[Orgfiller]

Alright so Dickey vs. Colon:

 

2.4 vs. 3.8

2.6 vs. 2.8

3.6 vs. 2.4

 

Interesting, especially this season Dickey came back. I still think that if Dickey brings great value on the market, trade him and sign Colon.

He doesn't.

[glory]

Sign Kratz and make him Dickey's catcher. I know they tried that in 2014 and ended up going with Thole instead but now that they seem to understand what framing is maybe they'll like Kratz a bit more. Solid backup catcher.

 

But yeah, only bad thing about Dickey is having to accommodate a personal catcher for him or risk hurting Martin by having him catch the knuckleball. Other than that, 220 innings for $11m is fine value.

[fatcowxlive]

He doesn't.

 

All I'm saying is if. I doubt many people would have give Donaldson for Lawrie + but it happened, maybe we can get a solid piece in exchange for Dickey we pull the trigger and get Colon, I don't think the tradeoff would be too big

[Brownie19]

All I'm saying is if. I doubt many people would have give Donaldson for Lawrie + but it happened, maybe we can get a solid piece in exchange for Dickey we pull the trigger and get Colon, I don't think the tradeoff would be too big

 

Honestly - you're suggesting we target a 43 year old, 320 lbs pitcher? Who does that? Please, let's aim higher.

[KingKat]

Sign Kratz and make him Dickey's catcher. I know they tried that in 2014 and ended up going with Thole instead but now that they seem to understand what framing is maybe they'll like Kratz a bit more. Solid backup catcher.

 

But yeah, only bad thing about Dickey is having to accommodate a personal catcher for him or risk hurting Martin by having him catch the knuckleball. Other than that, 220 innings for $11m is fine value.

 

Kratz in an interesting option but the ship may have sailed. He's going to be 36 in 2016. That's awfully old in catcher years.

[fatcowxlive]

Honestly - you're suggesting we target a 43 year old, 320 lbs pitcher? Who does that? Please, let's aim higher.

 

Hey, numbers don't lie, and his numbers are great

[dineke]

All I'm saying is if. I doubt many people would have give Donaldson for Lawrie + but it happened, maybe we can get a solid piece in exchange for Dickey we pull the trigger and get Colon, I don't think the tradeoff would be too big

 

What is this "solid piece" you think DIckey can fetch?

[flafson]

What is this "solid piece" you think DIckey can fetch?

 

A Ryan Goins.

[Brownie19]

Hey, numbers don't lie, and his numbers are great

 

You're right - they don't. Over the past 3 years his WAR has dropped, FIP & ERA have rose. I get he's been productive, but he's 43 and resembles a butterball. Let's aim higher.

[AdamGreenwood]

Guys, we need 3-4 starting pitchers. We're not getting 4 David Price's, so temper your expectations.

With this offense, All we really need is a consistent guy that can pitch 150 innings with a 4.5 ERA/FIP

[burlingtonbandit]

Hey, numbers don't lie, and his numbers are great

 

His numbers aren't "great". If he signed a 1 year 5 million deal I'm all for it but he's going to get more than that and I think there are much better options. He's going to be 43 years old and that body is a ticking time bomb.

[Brownie19]

Guys, we need 3-4 starting pitchers. We're not getting 4 David Price's, so temper your expectations.

With this offense, All we really need is a consistent guy that can pitch 150 innings with a 4.5 ERA/FIP

 

I think Stro, Hutch and Osuna/Sanchez (hopefully Osuna) will be in the rotation and they'll have to get creative on how to limit the innings from Osuna/Sanchez. They need make a decision on Dickey and I suspect he'll be back (not that I love it). I think they have to get 2 starting pitchers which can be relied upon and then they need to re-stock AAA and/or their bullpen with 6th starter depth guys.

 

Personally, I don't see Colon as a fit at all. If we keep Dickey, I think we need someone who's more of a upper tier starter (Price, Shark, etc.) and Colon isn't signing here as our #6 guy. The only way he fits is if they don't pick up Dickey's option and even then, I'm not sure I consider Colon reliable at 43 and 320 lbs.

[Slugger]

I don't know, man. I think if you move Osuna to the rotation you're asking for problems.

[Dr Negative]

Sarmardzija seems like a good signing, hopefully he won't accept a QO from the White Sox. 200+ innings with a 4.1~ FIP.

[Slugger]

Sarmardzija seems like a good signing, hopefully he won't accept a QO from the White Sox. 200+ innings with a 4.1~ FIP.

 

I think they can easily stack this rotation with #3's and hope that Stroman's trajectory continues upwards and he becomes a definitive #1.