Who says no?

[TilsonBritoFan]

They turned down Hoffman, Norris and Alford. Come on now

 

They were in the WC race though. Now we have Shapiro. Might change things

 

Heck maybe Shapiro wouldn't do it because he was in negotions to come to Toronto and knew it would look bad if he traded his best pitcher there?

 

Either way I think the Jays will try for him again this year.

[TilsonBritoFan]

One more thing:

 

Would you guys rather have KP or Dalton going forward? (Who would you rather give up in a trade)

 

I'm torn really. I wonder if it would make more sense to trade KP at his peak value now...is he worth more than Dalton? Probably to some teams anyways. I'd imagine some teams would value Dalton higher.

 

DP was the much higher pedigree prospect. He hasn't exactly "failed" yet. I don't think he needs anymore minor league seasoning. I think he has a higher ceiling than KP.

 

I think I'd have no problem dealing KP, Sanchez, and another good prospect (SRF or Pentecost) for Salazar. I'd also do Dalton if they wanted him instead of KP though. I imagine you guys would mostly be on board judging by responses in this thread,

[Spanky99]

They were in the WC race though. Now we have Shapiro. Might change things

 

Heck maybe Shapiro wouldn't do it because he was in negotions to come to Toronto and knew it would look bad if he traded his best pitcher there?

 

Either way I think the Jays will try for him again this year.

 

Thing is, we don't have those type of assets anymore. Sorry, just saw your follow up post. It'll still take more than that.

 

Edit: You posted Salazar again, lol.

[John_Havok]

I guess Pillar for Salazar would be fair but man, I've grown to love KP. It's possible that he's at the zenith of his value right now though I suppose. Still, I don't like trading above average regulars up the middle.

 

An outfield next year of Pillar, Pompey and Revere wold be sexy defensively. Though it's a pipe dream because Bautista will still have his arm carry him into people thinking he's an overall good defender and remain out there.

[Grant77]

One more thing:

 

Would you guys rather have KP or Dalton going forward? (Who would you rather give up in a trade)

 

I'm torn really. I wonder if it would make more sense to trade KP at his peak value now...is he worth more than Dalton? Probably to some teams anyways. I'd imagine some teams would value Dalton higher.

 

DP was the much higher pedigree prospect. He hasn't exactly "failed" yet. I don't think he needs anymore minor league seasoning. I think he has a higher ceiling than KP.

 

I think I'd have no problem dealing KP, Sanchez, and another good prospect (SRF or Pentecost) for Salazar. I'd also do Dalton if they wanted him instead of KP though. I imagine you guys would mostly be on board judging by responses in this thread,

 

I'd rather deal Revere + for a Tyson Ross type and roll with what we have in the outfield. Trading away whatever prospect depth we have left is setting us up for a long rebuild. We could have a long string of contention built around Donaldson, Tulo, Martin, Stroman, Osuna, Sanchez, and Travis if we play our cards right.

[John_Havok]

I'd rather deal Revere + for a Tyson Ross type and roll with what we have in the outfield. Trading away whatever prospect depth we have left is setting us up for a long rebuild. We could have a long string of contention built around Donaldson, Tulo, Martin, Stroman, Osuna, Sanchez, and Travis if we play our cards right.

 

Agreed. Pompey in LF over Revere doesn't really represent much of a difference in the overall team unless he is a complete bust and the Jays will need arms. Revere could be this offseason's Lind.

[fatcowxlive]

I'd rather deal Revere + for a Tyson Ross type and roll with what we have in the outfield. Trading away whatever prospect depth we have left is setting us up for a long rebuild. We could have a long string of contention built around Donaldson, Tulo, Martin, Stroman, Osuna, Sanchez, and Travis if we play our cards right.

 

Yup, playing our cards right will probably mean Bautista or/and EE gone this off season for younger players. Time to start the revolving door of getting old All-Stars out and new future All-Stars in

[THANOS]

I'd rather deal Revere + for a Tyson Ross type and roll with what we have in the outfield. Trading away whatever prospect depth we have left is setting us up for a long rebuild. We could have a long string of contention built around Donaldson, Tulo, Martin, Stroman, Osuna, Sanchez, and Travis if we play our cards right.

 

I'd be down for that. Tyson Ross is great and would fit right in imo.

[L54]

Great response!

 

These are very fair points but one thing you didn't mention is that Carrasco will be 29 entering the 2016 season and was only worth anything significant the past two years. From 2009-2013 Carrasco only provided 1.2 WAR as a mediocre reliever with poor peripherals.

 

I think, entering this off-season, Carrasco's value will only drop, given his age, and lack of track record as an elite arm.

 

Pillar's true value may be lower than this year, but Sanchez' could be much higher if successfully transitioned into a starter (his last few starts before injury were promising from a WHIP point of view), which he will be next season. If Cleveland's pitching coaches could transition him into a strikeout starter, which they have done countless other times, his FIP/xFIP could dip exponentially. This could end with Sanchez contributing 2-3 potential WAR in 2016. This would make the deal fair even with Pillar's value dipping to the 2.5 range like you suggested.

 

Now add in the potential value that Greene and Reid-Foley could give them in the future, and it's a huge potential win for Cleveland.

 

Pillar will be 27 next year coming off of what will most likely be the best year of his career. His two biggest assets- defense and baserunning really can't be expected to improve next year. He had a great year, but will most likely end up being a bit of an outlier.

 

Carrasco essentially silenced all the skeptics this year by breaking out in a huge way- making 30 starts, increasing his K% and SwStr% blah blah. The argument that he was s***** before while pumping Pillar's tires isn't really fair because Pillar was pretty s***** too. The difference is Carrasco repeated his success and I don't think many if any MLB orgs would expect Pillar to do the same.

 

If Sanchez was a guy they coveted enough as a reclamation project to attempt to transition him to starting again, a deal would've probably got done in July. My guess is Cleveland sees the same player many of us see- a guy with one good pitch, lacking a secondary one with troubles throwing strikes for more than one inning. It's fun to speculate what Sanchez could be, but I doubt the Indians are interested in getting lottery tickets back for Carrasco.

 

As for Greene and SRF they're nice pieces, but not really the blue chippers that return a top of the rotation arm. They could very well make big strides next year and become coveted arms (SRF lowering those walks, Greene striking out more polished hitters). Basically, there would be a lot of teams that would offer more than what is being discussed.

[L54]

Yup, playing our cards right will probably mean Bautista or/and EE gone this off season for younger players. Time to start the revolving door of getting old All-Stars out and new future All-Stars in

 

Why on earth would Bautista and/or Edwin be gone this year? That's a fireable offense if it happens.

[Jimcanuck]

If Sanchez was a guy they coveted enough as a reclamation project to attempt to transition him to starting again, a deal would've probably got done in July. My guess is Cleveland sees the same player many of us see- a guy with one good pitch, lacking a secondary one with troubles throwing strikes for more than one inning. It's fun to speculate what Sanchez could be, but I doubt the Indians are interested in getting lottery tickets back for Carrasco.

 

lol wut?

[Jimcanuck]

Why on earth would Bautista and/or Edwin be gone this year? That's a fireable offense if it happens.

 

No it's not.

[Laika]

Puig for Carrasco

 

Who says no?

 

Puig! He's made for LA

[Jimcanuck]

He's so great that there's absolutely no chance that the Padres would consider this.

 

The Blue Jays don't have any great trade chips right now. They traded the "prospect depth they have left" at midseason. I like Alford and Conner Greene but you can't land multiple good players with what the team currently has on the farm.

 

Pompey and Travis are quite valuable trade chips.

[L54]

Puig! He's made for LA

 

Could you imagine that ego in Ohio?

[L54]

lol wut?

 

rec·la·ma·tion (rĕk′lə-mā′shən)

n.

1. The act or process of reclaiming.

2. A restoration, as to productivity, usefulness, or morality.

[Laika]

If the Indians put Carrasco on the trade market it will be a bidding war. I doubt Pillar, Sanchez, Greene wins that war.

 

I see the Jays matching up better with the Mets in a deal for a starter, anyway.

 

I wonder if they would just give Niese away to anyone who will take on the contract. A groundball guy like him could benefit from the slow turf + Blue Jays very good IF defense.

[Trouba95]

Yup, playing our cards right will probably mean Bautista or/and EE gone this off season for younger players. Time to start the revolving door of getting old All-Stars out and new future All-Stars in

 

Fatcow is posting on the regular again!!!

[L54]

No it's not.

 

You're right Jim. Go find 150 wRC+ FA hitters who will come to Toronto for less than $10M on a one year deal.

 

I bet we could get Crush Davis for like $7M.

[Grant77]

Yup, playing our cards right will probably mean Bautista or/and EE gone this off season for younger players. Time to start the revolving door of getting old All-Stars out and new future All-Stars in

 

I'm not certain that trading them is necessary or the correct move. There aren't huge payroll constraints if we let Price go and we have the flexibility to transfer Jose to 1B sometime in the next couple of years. As long as we keep that big five (Donaldson, Tulo, E-Rex, JB, Martin) then we're a contender in my eyes. Add in Travis, KP and a developed Pompey/Alford and you're looking at a pretty dynamic offense.

[Laika]

He's so great that there's absolutely no chance that the Padres would consider this.

 

The Blue Jays don't have any great trade chips right now. They traded the "prospect depth they have left" at midseason. I like Alford and Conner Greene but you can't land multiple good players with what the team currently has on the farm.

 

The offseason plan should basically be to buy low on a couple of SP like Shark / Ian Kennedy, and then call it a day. Maybe try to do the much talked about Revere for a SP deal, but it might not be out there. Do these little things and then hope the team competes again in 2016 while the farm matures.

 

They could also justify just trading Revere for whatever (cheap/good swing man like Zach McAllister?) mostly to save some payroll. I believe in Pompey and Saunders. Good Canadian boys.

 

I guess they could explore trading Goins or Travis if the value is there... but I still don't believe in Goins.

[Jimcanuck]

You're right Jim. Go find 150 wRC+ FA hitters who will come to Toronto for less than $10M on a one year deal.

 

I bet we could get Crush Davis for like $7M.

 

There would be nothing wrong with moving EE for a blue chip prospect in high A (ie. a better prospect than Alford) and one or two lesser prospects.

[Jimcanuck]

rec·la·ma·tion (rĕk′lə-mā′shən)

n.

1. The act or process of reclaiming.

2. A restoration, as to productivity, usefulness, or morality.

 

Sanchez hasn't been productive? You haven't been watching the games.

[L54]

Sanchez hasn't been productive? You haven't been watching the games.

 

My post was obviously in reference to transitioning back to starting. You haven't been reading the posts.

[TilsonBritoFan]

Joey and EE are deadline trade chips if we aren't in contention... If we are we keep obviously.

 

Agree about revere id rather trade him but he's worth jack....

 

Move Joey to 1b, Pompey in lf Saunders in rf

[L54]

You're right Jim. Go find 150 wRC+ FA hitters who will come to Toronto for less than $10M on a one year deal.

 

I bet we could get Crush Davis for like $7M.

 

Jim? Comments?

[Jimcanuck]

Jim? Comments?

 

My comment was that trading EE or JB is not a fireable offense. Jays cannot sign both Bautista and EE after 2016. 1 yr, $10M for a 4WAR guy like EE would fetch a very good return. Jays farm is sparse.

 

The best run orgs in baseball move their assets before they lose them for nothing.

[GD]

1 yr, $10M for a 4WAR guy like EE

 

+ value of the comp pick

[GeorgiaPeach]

With Jose & Edwin being 10/5 guys. What's the chance either of them waive that to be dealt from a team/lineup as loaded as they're in?

[Jimcanuck]

My post was obviously in reference to transitioning back to starting. You haven't been reading the posts.

 

His first year as a starter and other than the walk rate, he put up quite good numbers. Wildness in young pitchers is quite common. It's silly to call a 23 yr old with the Sanchez' potential a reclamation project.