Reactionary bad playoff thread dumping site

[Effit]

I actually had to google what TLDR stood for.

[Trouba95]

Yeah, not letting Pompey run with 0 outs was Gibby being way too conservative. PLAY TO WIN!!! All the teams I cheer for play to not lose. Take a gamble once in a while.

[drveets]

i'm getting a lot of grief down here being surrounded by pirate fans because i've always had my jays hat on, but i don't think anyone in their right mind thinks texas is the better team. however, they have been much better at the fundamentals and that is a crying shame at this point in the season. they are doing the little things better that were (or at least should have been) addressed in florida in early march. and you guys will know this much better than me; but don't edwin and jose have expiring contracts? so, my question is what are the odds of keeping this team together?

[Candy Maldonado]

lol wut is going here?

[EMK19]

back when we won our titles we had great base runners at the top of both world series teams. we obviously had henderson; that goes without saying, but alomar and white were both great base runners as well. my point is, in the post season you have to be able to get guys down to second base (especially with no outs) and we haven't done that. the teams in 92 and 93 did that with consistency and that is why we won. and i'm not even sure what to say about price, who is now 0-6 in the post season. it actually disgusts me when we pushed all in with him, and he went out and performed like he did? an ace is supposed to be an ace, and as far as those who think he should go on 3 days rest i say no way. stick with the original game plan and go with dickey. to perform like he did after resting for 11 days is an embarrassment and i actually think set the tone for this entire series if we don't end up pulling it out. and i have to be honest; i'm not exactly optimistic at this point. today we didn't play to win we played to try and not lose and that never works. and another issue i have is tulo; he has been totally non-existent. i know he might have a bit of rust, but are you serious what is he now 1-10 in two games? i hate to say this, but it is the truth. we deserve to be down 2-0 and it's shocking for me because i thought this team (and still think) is the best team in baseball.

 

Actually, in our 92/93 playoff runs, I can barely remember any moments where we actually manufactured runs with our speed. We just straight up outhit our opponents/got a key homer for most of the games we won, especially in 1993.

 

I take that 0-6 stuff in the post season thing with a grain of salt as the his past playoffs records don't have much to do with this series in particular. Facing different squads and he was a different pitcher back then. Price had a bad start in game 1, yes, but that has little if anything to do with his past playoff experience, he just had a bad game (as he did vs. Tampa). If anything, if you want to talk his performance in pressure situations, I think a lot of people forget that play-in game he won in a complete game against the Rangers a few years ago because it technically wasn't a playoff game, but in reality that was no different in comparison to something like a wild card game.

[TheHurl]

lol wut is going here?

 

Murica

[drveets]

really emk? henderson and alomar turned singles into doubles with their base running quite frequently. alomar used to always dangle his right arm (one of the most underrated base runners ever). we manufactured runs when we had to and this team simply cannot play small ball, even if the situation requires it. but, i put that on gibbons not the players. in my opinion a pinch runner has one duty, to run. not just stand there that was one of the most idiotic coaching displays i've ever seen.

[TheHurl]

Actually, in our 92/93 playoff runs, I can barely remember any moments where we actually manufactured runs with our speed. We just straight up outhit our opponents/got a key homer for most of the games we won, especially in 1993.

 

I take that 0-6 stuff in the post season thing with a grain of salt as the his past playoffs records don't have much to do with this series in particular. Facing different squads and he was a different pitcher back then. Price had a bad start in game 1, yes, but that has little if anything to do with his past playoff experience, he just had a bad game (as he did vs. Tampa). If anything, if you want to talk his performance in pressure situations, I think a lot of people forget that play-in game he won in a complete game against the Rangers a few years ago because it technically wasn't a playoff game, but in reality that was no different in comparison to something like a wild card game.

 

In 93 Jays scored 71 runs in the 12 playoff games (which includes getting shutout and scoring just 1 run in another). Cito's managing is so brilliant that they manufactured 7 runs a game.

[drveets]

i don't think anyone is saying manufacture 7 a game; but maybe 1 or 2?

[labadee]

Hey guys, i was just trolling around yall's board and thought I'd leave a thread here, maybe we could talk some baseball. Just thought I'd leave some of my opinions of what yall have been talking about the past couple days

 

1) Yall came in way too cocky. I dont know if the team wrote us off, but yall definitely wrote us off and yall were wrong to do that. Besides yall, we were the hottest team in the AL the second half, and just because we didnt go on the ungodly stretch yall went on doesnt mean we werent a dangerous opponent. All yall talking trash about how we were the worst playoff team and were just some kind of stepping stone on yalls path to world series glory shouldve known the playoffs are a fickle mistress, and karma is a bitch.

 

2) Chill with the "fix is in" s***. It makes yall look petty af. MLB would love for the blue jays storyline to come through, yall were the biggest story of the second half and have tons of people rooting for you around the country. Was rougned out? Probably. Was it definitive enough to overturn? I dont know. The guy who's job it is to make that decision thought it wasn't, and these guys, especially the guys working these games, are pretty damn good at their job, contrary to popular belief. And the home plate umpire was just bad all night, there was no definitive strike zone, we just lucked out finding a couple more of those hot spots than yall.

 

3) As good as yall were during the regular season, yall havent played well this series at all imo. Stroman is yalls biggest (and rly only) bright spot, besides him yalls pitching has been average at best (bullpen did well today to keep yall in it for a while), the defense has looked confused at times, the offense has gone awol in the biggest moments, and, like yall say, gibbons needs to go. What i find to be yalls biggest problem is you arent manufacturing the tough runs you need to win playoff games like this. Yalls runs have come off bombs or errors, for the most part. When those arent coming yall are almost helpless. We won because we have guys like odor, like elvis, like delino, guys who get on, get over, and get s*** done. We havent raked this series, we lost one of our best hitters and hamilton looks like hes about out of gas, but weve gotten what we needed when we needed it. Yall have the big bats but nobody whos really doing the dirty work right now. Pillar and goins can be those guys but even if they start hitting when yalls vaunted 2-5 hitters go 2-22 its a moot point

 

4) This series isnt over. The Ballpark in Arlington isnt what it used to be but bats can still heat up down here in Texas. And if yalls bats heat up there isnt a team in the league that has an answer for it. Fwiw i see rangers in 4 as of right now but i wouldnt be surprised if yall can get it back to toronto, and from there anything happens.

 

 

Don't mean to troll, just saying what I've seen the past two days

 

I really stopped reading after the first sentence of your first point. No one wrote off the Rangers, most of the regulars (not the bandwagon fans that joined in Oct 2015) said this would be the hardest matchup. Every team goes into the playoffs cocky, why shouldn't the jays? Best record in the second half, best offence, and i think best team pitching wise as well. Ask any team in the playoffs if they'll win the world series, they'll all say they're the best team. Making it to the playoffs out of 162 games is hard to do (we've tried for 22 years!).

[EMK19]

i don't think anyone is saying manufacture 7 a game; but maybe 1 or 2?

 

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that there is a time and place for manufacturing runs and utilizing your speed. I'm just saying it really didn't have too much of an effect on things in how the 92/93 teams generally won their games. And I don't think our team this year has been particularly all that bad at either, our steal rates are very decent and we lead the league in sacrifice flies IIRC.

 

What would you have done differently with our situations today then, for example?

[Trouba95]

You've become sassy, Trouba. I think I like it.

 

I've changed for the betterment of BJMB.

[drveets]

pompey not stealing by far and away. that decision just might have cost us the entire series. at that point who cares if he gets thrown out at least you took a risk. it's obvious gibbons had the mentality that every batter was one swing away from hitting a hr anyway, but that approach obviously didn't work.

[EMK19]

pompey not stealing by far and away. that decision just might have cost us the entire series. at that point who cares if he gets thrown out at least you took a risk. it's obvious gibbons had the mentality that every batter was one swing away from hitting a hr anyway, but that approach obviously didn't work.

 

But he did end up stealing the base. Two bases actually. I'm guessing you mean him not stealing during the Martin at bat? It probably would have made more sense to attempt to steal during his at bat, yes, but it's hard to say from our point of view what really happened there; for all we know maybe Pompey wasn't comfortable in stealing at that particular point, he had just come on and had to read the pitcher's move/timing, and Tolleson did throw over to him a lot. The fact that he did steal two bases later suggests to me that he was indeed reading his move and timing during that Martin at bat. I know stealing can look pretty easy to some, but it's honestly not an easy art.

[crmr]

I really stopped reading after the first sentence of your first point. No one wrote off the Rangers, most of the regulars (not the bandwagon fans that joined in Oct 2015) said this would be the hardest matchup. Every team goes into the playoffs cocky, why shouldn't the jays? Best record in the second half, best offence, and i think best team pitching wise as well. Ask any team in the playoffs if they'll win the world series, they'll all say they're the best team. Making it to the playoffs out of 162 games is hard to do (we've tried for 22 years!).

 

 

My favourite thing about this forum is when all the forum vets say something and it turns out to be wrong, they blame the 'casuals'...

 

Plenty of what you would describe as regulars definitely were happy with our opponent being Texas for the exact reason you stated: they thought it was the easiest team. Go look in the other threads

[drveets]

yes emk during the martin at bat. it would have changed the whole dynamic with a guy on second and no outs.

[jays_fever]

My favourite thing about this forum is when all the forum vets say something and it turns out to be wrong, they blame the 'casuals'...

 

Plenty of what you would describe as regulars definitely were happy with our opponent being Texas for the exact reason you stated: they thought it was the easiest team. Go look in the other threads

 

Texas is still the worst playoff team, 2 games doesnt change that..

 

A lot of people also stated that even if we played the Philies it would only be around a 65-70% chance we would actually win. Im not sure who these people are that said Texas would be a cakewalk yet random accounts keep posting that.

 

Stating Texas is the easiest match up for the Jays doesnt = Texas is a guaranteed or easy win.

[nextyear]

As it turns out, throwing away a couple games late in the season could very well be the difference between going deep in the playoffs and not. What is really important is what team the Blue Jays played first; playing the wild card winner (Houston) seems like it would have been better for the Blue Jays.

 

If the Blue Jays had of used some regulars for part of the 2nd game of the doubleheader in Baltimore and not have celebrated and been hungover for the 4th game in Baltimore then they might have won 1 of the 2 throw away games. If Buehrle hadn't been used in the final game...

 

Gibbons referred to fans who thought that first place overall were "bozos in fantasy" land; unfortunately it might turn out that the bozos in fantasy land were right. Having players hungover during a game was unprofessional and showed that management wasn't ready to guide the team into the playoffs.

 

Watching the first 2 games against Texas shows how jittery the Blue Jay players have been. It would have been better to play a weaker opponent and to have gotten their feet wet first before the next round against a tougher opponent.

[Krylian]

If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas.

[BigCecil]

If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas.

 

Yup. I don't see any connection between not making them play in mud and torential rain....the party...and these first 2 playoff games. None. You can quibble about 11 days rest for Price and whether that helps creatures of habit/routine or not. But he might have sucked on normal rest too like he did the start before this one.

[nextyear]

Yup. I don't see any connection between not making them play in mud and torential rain....the party...and these first 2 playoff games. None. You can quibble about 11 days rest for Price and whether that helps creatures of habit/routine or not. But he might have sucked on normal rest too like he did the start before this one.

 

So you are saying there is no difference between playing the Texas Rangers, who were just as hot in the 2nd half of the season as the Blue Jays, and the Houston Astros who were not?

 

Was there really torrential rain in the 2nd game of the double hitter in Baltimore?

[BigCecil]

So you are saying there is no difference between playing the Texas Rangers, who were just as hot in the 2nd half of the season as the Blue Jays, and the Houston Astros who were not?

 

Was there really torrential rain in the 2nd game of the double hitter in Baltimore?

 

We played a double header because of torrential rain the day before. There is no way we don't rest regulars that day after clinching. The next day was horrible weather. Hou or Tex are both dangerous. We didn't lose to their ace in the first game. We lost to pussnuts again. We will never know. KC is in tough with Hou. We would have been too. You don't know if we beat HOU or not. You are assuming we would for the purposes of a hindsight argument. Hot good teams cool and cool good teams get hot. You just dont know when.

[500LevelSTH]

Going to have to beat someone in the playoffs. If if if if if lol

 

If martin hits 5th in game 1 he doubles and blows the game open... If if if if...

 

If the jays make one play in the first of game 2 they likely win... Ifi if if if

 

Ifs are for people who make excuses. This team doesnt make excuses, why should its fans. They are playing to there level and experience. Series is not over until someone wins three games.

 

Sometimes you have to lose before you win... Same as the Jays of 85-93. Same as the Rangers of the last few years.

[500LevelSTH]

Its obvious he is about 85% at the plate and in pain when he tries to power. Hitting him in the 5-hole just because he is Tulo is a mistake. Hes was brutal at plate before getting hurt and making the adjustment to AL pitching. Rangers can see he is lacking, its plain as day. Tulo in 7 spot was the right spot. While his defense has been stellar, his bat is not.

 

Revere

JD

joey

Edwin

Martin

Bello

Tulo

Pillar

Goins

 

Martins numbers and performance not great this series. But he has hit the ball at times, something Tulo really isnt capable of right now based on the evidence and the eye test... 0-10 with a couple nice def plays, not a big advantage over Goins TBH.

 

I went to both ALDS games, and then watched them back again when we got home. Its painful to watch him hit at 85% - healthy the one ball he took for a ride would have been a homer. If im the rangers i defo want to face him over Martin or Bello. Martin is a doubles threat, and Bello 300+ PA sample size is crazy strong right now.

 

Theres an honest and legit argument that Tulo should have not returned until a possible alcs appearance. Team has enough hitting and defence to go the Goins at SS and Clifton at 2B until hes ready.

 

Not trying to be a revisionist, i actually mentioned this to the wife during the baltimore series when it was obvious he was rushed back to get some games in. Tulo cannot get to where he needs by playing every day. Beltre is an interesting comparison. Rangers soaked it up, probably could have pushed him to play or even PH yeaterday. He was taking swings in the cage during game 2, but Texas rode it out and let depth carry the day.

 

When this is over, whenever that is, the truth of the severity of the pain and limitations hes playing through will come out.

 

Anyways...even if he didnt play, Jays would be in no worse a situation, amd he would be another day closer to being an impact at the plate as a PH or starter another day.

 

Let the flamming begin

[EMK19]

I do think it's telling how they were intentionally walking EE to face Tulo... I'm sure Tulo's rarely faced that situation when he was with the Rockies. Wonder if they would have done the same if it was Martin instead. Obviously I still want him in the lineup though for his defence even if he's not 100% at the plate.

[Stangstag]

I do think it's telling how they were intentionally walking EE to face Tulo... I'm sure Tulo's rarely faced that situation when he was with the Rockies. Wonder if they would have done the same if it was Martin instead. Obviously I still want him in the lineup though for his defence even if he's not 100% at the plate.

 

They would have done the same with Martin or Belo hitting behind Eddy.

[vdubmvp]

lol wut is going here?

 

I like your old avatar better.

[500LevelSTH]

They would have done the same with Martin or Belo hitting behind Eddy.

 

Bello this season:

Late/close games: .345 / .471 babip

Within 1 run: .301 / .386 babip

[Followthelight]

This team came into the playoffs unprepared, unfocused. This team is playing below it's talent level and is mentally weak. All they have done is whine about the umpires, Donaldson's episode yesterday was cringe-worthy, I love JD but come on keep your composure. Look at texas, they came in focused, and never let the ump take them out of the game. They came to play and are staying within the game. Their manager is also making Gibbons look like a fool. Those hit and runs in game 1 gave them 2 runs. The Jays approach at the plate has been selfish, refusing to take walks, swinging out of the zone up 2-0, 3-1, and even 3-0 in counts, just stupid selfish baseball.

 

Instead of all the crying about replays, Umpires, how about look in the mirror for an offense that has gotten indisciplined and shrunk under playoff pressure, swinging at pitches way out of the zone over and over, throwing the ball around costing you 2 runs in the first inning. Pretty disappointed how this team has reacted to some adversity and playoff pressure, pretty embarassing really. Blame yourselves for what has been a massive choke job, that's what this is, this team is too talented to play their 2 worst games since the all-start break. Stop crying and act like you been there.

 

Other teams fanbases are laughing at the Jays and how they have acted, and I don't blame then, lack of professionalism on the team.

[Ziggyy108]

Was there really not any other thread you could have found to voice your displeasure ....