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Krylian

By Krylian
in Blue Jays Minor League Talk

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Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
The only comparable level of prospect that has been traded away that immediately comes to mind is Noah Synergaard. One guy that ended up having a fantastic career Jeff Kent was traded away years ago, but I have no idea how highly he was thought of as a prospect at the time of the trade.

 

Okay yeah, Syndergaard would be close and d’Arnaud in context was better I guess.

 

Good illustration though - hard to even imagine Toronto trading Groshans in a deal like that with this young team. They’ll just let Groshans develop and then join the fold. There’s no “window” here and even if there is it’s like six years wide

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max silver FCL Blue Jays

max silver

Old-Timey Member
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Okay yeah, Syndergaard would be close and d’Arnaud in context was better I guess.

 

Good illustration though - hard to even imagine Toronto trading Groshans in a deal like that with this young team. They’ll just let Groshans develop and then join the fold. There’s no “window” here and even if there is it’s like six years wide

 

Totally agree here, Groshans is the type of guy who should be close to untouchable. Perhaps a swap for an elite outfield prospect or young outfielder with control could make sense given the lack of impact outfielders in the organization, but Groshans looks like a future star so there needs to be elite talent coming back in any trade with him involved.

Carlos Danger Dunedin Blue Jays

Carlos Danger

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The only comparable level of prospect that has been traded away that immediately comes to mind is Noah Synergaard. One guy that ended up having a fantastic career Jeff Kent was traded away years ago, but I have no idea how highly he was thought of as a prospect at the time of the trade.

 

Jeff Kent was recognized as very very talented, in the short time he played for the Jays at the MLB level it was obvious. However, they had Roberto Alomar and needed a SP and Cone was a stud. They (Gillick) pulled the trigger and they won the WS. I have stated repeatedly I don't think Shatkins does that... They are all about sustainability which is good, but sometimes you have to look at the overall objective and pull the trigger.

TheHurl Toronto Blue Jays

TheHurl

Site Manager
Posted
Posted

 

23 (although the list wasn't out when the trade was made). 17 the year before.

 

Top 100 Rankings

Ranked Baseball Americas #36 prospect after the 2010 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #81 prospect after the 2009 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #17 prospect after the 2011 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #23 prospect after the 2012 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #38 prospect after the 2013 season

Spanky__99 FCL Blue Jays

Spanky__99

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
23 (although the list wasn't out when the trade was made). 17 the year before.

 

Top 100 Rankings

Ranked Baseball Americas #36 prospect after the 2010 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #81 prospect after the 2009 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #17 prospect after the 2011 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #23 prospect after the 2012 season

Ranked Baseball Americas #38 prospect after the 2013 season

 

That link shows different #17 in '12. Yur dumn.

Jimcanuck Buffalo Bisons

Jimcanuck

Old-Timey Member
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Groshans is the type of asset the Jays should be targeting, not trading away. IMO.

 

Groshans is at SS currently, but is projected to move to 3B or even corner OF. Thinking he might be blocked as a reason to trade him is premature and wrong, regardless.

Carlos Danger Dunedin Blue Jays

Carlos Danger

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Groshans is the type of asset the Jays should be targeting, not trading away. IMO.

 

Groshans is at SS currently, but is projected to move to 3B or even corner OF. Thinking he might be blocked as a reason to trade him is premature and wrong, regardless.

 

Why is Groshans at 3B and 3B only on Fantrax?? I don't get it?

Jimcanuck Buffalo Bisons

Jimcanuck

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Why is Groshans at 3B and 3B only on Fantrax?? I don't get it?

 

Probably because that is where Fantrax projects him to be when he gets promoted. But it can change.

glory Vancouver Canadians

glory

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Yeah I don't see Shatkins trading Groshans. The more sensible approach when the team does decide to trade prospects would be to move excess/expendable ones. Groshans is potentially a core piece, not an expendable piece. I would think the Jays will eventually trade from the catching depth, and there will be fringe top 100 prospects that the team could move in a year or two when the win curve justifies it.
gruber92 Buffalo Bisons

gruber92

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Every GM of every team would always say that they may use the farm to improve the team by trade.

 

There's a difference between using the farm to trade for talent and trading an elite prospect like Groshans. Correct me if I'm wrong but trading Groshans right now would maybe be Toronto trading the best prospect they've ever dealt in their history (in context, not looking back)???

 

Michael Young?

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

 

Not the worst idea - sign the skinny Guerrero. "why can't you look like this, hmmm?"

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Okay so prospects traded by Toronto who were ranked in the top ~50 in context are just Syndergaard, d'Arnaud, and probably Steve Karsay.

 

The first 2 were in one of the worst if not the worst trade in Blue Jays history, and Karsay was for Rickey Henderson in an eventually successful World Series push.

The Cats Ass Buffalo Bisons

The Cats Ass

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Okay so prospects traded by Toronto who were ranked in the top ~50 in context are just Syndergaard, d'Arnaud, and probably Steve Karsay.

 

The first 2 were in one of the worst if not the worst trade in Blue Jays history, and Karsay was for Rickey Henderson in an eventually successful World Series push.

 

If we're talking top 50 what about Jeff Hoffman, Daniel Norris, and Franklin Barreto? Norris was up there, but not sure if he was still considered a prospect when traded. Hoffman might have just barely cracked 50 around the time. And not sure where Barreto ranked at the time of the trade, remember him being in the top 50 for a few years.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
If we're talking top 50 what about Jeff Hoffman, Daniel Norris, and Franklin Barreto? Norris was up there, but not sure if he was still considered a prospect when traded. Hoffman might have just barely cracked 50 around the time. And not sure where Barreto ranked at the time of the trade, remember him being in the top 50 for a few years.

 

Okay, I guess Norris counts. I don't think Jeff was quite there. Barreto was a backend top 100 prospect with helium when the trade happened.

Olerud363 FCL Blue Jays

Olerud363

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Okay so prospects traded by Toronto who were ranked in the top ~50 in context are just Syndergaard, d'Arnaud, and probably Steve Karsay.

 

The first 2 were in one of the worst if not the worst trade in Blue Jays history, and Karsay was for Rickey Henderson in an eventually successful World Series push.

 

Olerud wasn't signed to a long term contract at the time, but in trading him for Person, the Jays lost 30 career WAR...

 

You could argue that the Olerud trade was by far the worst of all time, if you reasonably assume you could of extended him a couple of years, if you treated him half decent.

 

Olerud was 20+ WAR ahead of Carter, Canseco, Willie Greene and David Segue between 97 and 99.

 

You could argue that the Olerud trade/lack of extension/commitment to Joe Carter cost 2 playoff spots in 98 and 99.

Beans First Round Pick

Beans

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I'm still waiting to hear from you, man?

No, more like this:

 

"Boss/Chief/Big guy, DM me please.

 

Greetings"

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