Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[Brownie19]

Yep

 

I wonder why they are babying him so much. I really hope it's not because they think he's going to break.

[Orgfiller]

I wonder why they are babying him so much. I really hope it's not because they think he's going to break.

 

If you've seen the recent string of pitcher injuries, then it makes sense to baby a young arm like him. But also he's a pitcher and has gotten injured before, those are the most likely to break again.

[Sorrow]

I wonder why they are babying him so much. I really hope it's not because they think he's going to break.

 

I know some people are going to say inning limits increases are BS but there's probably merit to it. I can't find it but there was a podcast with Gausman done in January I think and he even mentioned that the innings increase Manoah did from 2021->2022 was something like 67 innings + playoffs and it was greater than a 50% increase in innings which was always the hard and fast rule. Gausman mentioned that Manoah was basically unable to throw until almost January and struggled with weight training because of shoulder fatigue and soreness all winter. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's still recovering from that it contributed to a small tear somewhere in his shoulder that hasn't been found so far in imaging.

 

Tiedeman has probably a 75 pitch limit, if he is effective and in the zone that's probably enough pitches to get through five innings but if he's striking out 7+ guys in 3-4 innings but it's taking 6+ pitches an at bat he's not really being overly efficient with the pitch count. If the goal is to let Tiedeman throw as late as possible into to the season it makes sense to limit his pitch counts early in the season and once the warmer weather hits increase it a bit.

[Krylian]

I wonder why they are babying him so much. I really hope it's not because they think he's going to break.

 

I can't see any other reason for it.

 

If you're trying to develop a starting pitcher, that starting pitcher needs to be able to throw 100 pitches effectively. Not just from an arm strength and stamina standpoint, but managing the stamina. Knowing when to back off and when to give it a little extra, so he's able to throw 100-110 pitches and not run out of gas at 80 because of too much emptying the tank that happened in the 3rd and 4th innings. There's an art to that, and Tiedemann hasn't had an opportunity to work on that part. It's not like he's in A+...he's already in AAA. Clearly they think he's close.

[Brownie19]

I can't see any other reason for it.

 

If you're trying to develop a starting pitcher, that starting pitcher needs to be able to throw 100 pitches effectively. Not just from an arm strength and stamina standpoint, but managing the stamina. Knowing when to back off and when to give it a little extra, so he's able to throw 100-110 pitches and not run out of gas at 80 because of too much emptying the tank that happened in the 3rd and 4th innings. There's an art to that, and Tiedemann hasn't had an opportunity to work on that part. It's not like he's in A+...he's already in AAA. Clearly they think he's close.

 

This is certainly the old school way of looking at it. I don't follow it closely enough, but I doubt you see many successful organizations running their top arms out there for 100+ pitches in AA/AAA.

[Laika]

I know some people are going to say inning limits increases are BS but there's probably merit to it. I can't find it but there was a podcast with Gausman done in January I think and he even mentioned that the innings increase Manoah did from 2021->2022 was something like 67 innings + playoffs and it was greater than a 50% increase in innings which was always the hard and fast rule. Gausman mentioned that Manoah was basically unable to throw until almost January and struggled with weight training because of shoulder fatigue and soreness all winter. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's still recovering from that it contributed to a small tear somewhere in his shoulder that hasn't been found so far in imaging.

 

Tiedeman has probably a 75 pitch limit, if he is effective and in the zone that's probably enough pitches to get through five innings but if he's striking out 7+ guys in 3-4 innings but it's taking 6+ pitches an at bat he's not really being overly efficient with the pitch count. If the goal is to let Tiedeman throw as late as possible into to the season it makes sense to limit his pitch counts early in the season and once the warmer weather hits increase it a bit.

 

We might see them break RT in as a 3 IP reliever later in 2024, to follow a guy like Bowden Francis.

Try to get 4 IP from Francis then 3 IP from Tiedemann.

 

It would basically be the Yusei Kikuchi experience. 3 IP, 60 pitches, 5+ Ks and some walks, hopefully no real damage because the stuff is dominant. Difference is Kikuchi is a vet with a mature arm so he can last for 90 pitches and 5 innings most nights.

[Brownie19]

I know some people are going to say inning limits increases are BS but there's probably merit to it. I can't find it but there was a podcast with Gausman done in January I think and he even mentioned that the innings increase Manoah did from 2021->2022 was something like 67 innings + playoffs and it was greater than a 50% increase in innings which was always the hard and fast rule. Gausman mentioned that Manoah was basically unable to throw until almost January and struggled with weight training because of shoulder fatigue and soreness all winter. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's still recovering from that it contributed to a small tear somewhere in his shoulder that hasn't been found so far in imaging.

 

Tiedeman has probably a 75 pitch limit, if he is effective and in the zone that's probably enough pitches to get through five innings but if he's striking out 7+ guys in 3-4 innings but it's taking 6+ pitches an at bat he's not really being overly efficient with the pitch count. If the goal is to let Tiedeman throw as late as possible into to the season it makes sense to limit his pitch counts early in the season and once the warmer weather hits increase it a bit.

 

I think that's fair. That type of philosophy was all the rage back in the mid 2010's. It is interesting that you rarely hear that anymore. We always debated if the Nats should have shutdown Strasburg or not, with lots saying they shouldn't have, you have to go for it, etc. Well that could be exactly what we did with Manoah and we are now paying the price for that approach. Of course Strasburg broke down anyway, so maybe Manoah would have too - or maybe he wouldn't have!

[Krylian]

This is certainly the old school way of looking at it. I don't follow it closely enough, but I doubt you see many successful organizations running their top arms out there for 100+ pitches in AA/AAA.

 

I don't think 100+ pitches every start is the way to go...but I want to see him getting to 90 with some regularity. Maybe that'll happen over the next few weeks but I'm just saying we haven't see any sort of stamina development happening at all. I'll be curious to see how his season plays out.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure that RT is being babied. His development has been interrupted by repeated arm issues. He hasn't had an extended period without an arm issue in order to build up to 5+ innings / outing.

[Krylian]

Not sure that RT is being babied. His development has been interrupted by repeated arm issues. He hasn't had an extended period without an arm issue in order to build up to 5+ innings / outing.

 

...and that's fair. If that's the case I think we should all be mildly concerned. He's still extremely young, so let's wait and see, but if this pattern continues (as it did for Pearson), his future may be in the pen. Again, it's still real early...but I don't think we can ignore it.

[Laika]

...and that's fair. If that's the case I think we should all be mildly concerned. He's still extremely young, so let's wait and see, but if this pattern continues (as it did for Pearson), his future may be in the pen. Again, it's still real early...but I don't think we can ignore it.

 

I don't think anybody is ignoring it.

 

Seems like all the fans who post here have mild expectations of RT. It would be NICE if he's a frontline SP but I don't get the sense that anybody is expecting that.

[Krylian]

I don't think anybody is ignoring it.

 

Seems like all the fans who post here have mild expectations of RT. It would be NICE if he's a frontline SP but I don't get the sense that anybody is expecting that.

 

I think you're downplaying it. I think a lot of people here have much higher than "mild" expectations for RT.

[Laika]

I think you're downplaying it. I think a lot of people here have much higher than "mild" expectations for RT.

 

Name one person

 

He's a pitching prospect. Most people get it.

[Sorrow]

I'm very high RT. He has front of the rotation potential but I'm also aware that there's no such thing as a pitching prospect.

[Laika]

I'm very high RT. He has front of the rotation potential but I'm also aware that there's no such thing as a pitching prospect.

 

Even when they do make the majors and pitch like an Ace their elbows fall off half the time. See Eury Perez, countless others.

 

No point getting excited

[Terminator]

 

Addison Barger is off to a great start.

 

3B/RF that bats left would be a sweet player to have on the big league roster.

[Brownie19]

Even when they do make the majors and pitch like an Ace their elbows fall off half the time. See Eury Perez, countless others.

 

No point getting excited

 

This is fair, but it's still very difficult as a fan to not get excited about a guy who's been labelled as one of the best LH starting pitching prospects in baseball. Everyone wants that home grown ace. Unfortunately, I think the probability of that happening is like 5% now.

[glory]

 

Addison Barger is off to a great start.

 

3B/RF that bats left would be a sweet player to have on the big league roster.

 

The good news is the team is still playing him at 3B in the minors, so if they haven't given up on him in that spot, then he could be a viable 3B option sometime during the season if the team finally realizes that giving 600 PA to IKF probably isn't the best idea. A LHB with pop at 3B would be nice. Just have to hope the defense there is at least average, though he can play 3B occasionally, some OF, etc.

[mphenhef]

I'm very high RT. He has front of the rotation potential but I'm also aware that there's no such thing as a pitching prospect.

 

The only pitching prospect in baseball I'd be willing to gamble on performance wise is Skenes and even then you never know what injury risk there is.

[Spanky__99]

I wonder why they are babying him so much. I really hope it's not because they think he's going to break.

 

Cold weather most likely.

[Daniel Labude]

Feels like low to mid 30s F again in Buffalo, Jays really need to move to a warm weather for the AAA and AA teams

[Eat My Shatkins]

Ugh, Manoah suxxxxx

[Eat My Shatkins]

Manager challenged a ball call at the top of the zone that would have made the count 2-0 and it was overturned, made the count 1-1. Manoah then went on to strike out that batter and the next.

 

Good challenge, turned the inning around.

[Spanky__99]

Ugh, Manoah suxxxxx

 

2 infield singles a SB and 2 K's isn't bad?

[Daniel Labude]

Very good 1st inning for Manoah. Fastball had good velo and movement. Slider had a few very good ones with 2 plane movement like he used to. He was 2-2 on his pitch challenges

 

Weak single to SS then SB

 

Wood weak ground out to Manoah

 

Weak chopper to Manoah that he tried to bare hand, R scored

 

Passed ball on Jansen

 

Strikeout

 

Strikeout

[Eat My Shatkins]

2 infield singles a SB and 2 K's isn't bad?

 

Yep, wasn't a great inning and could have been much worse but that challenge turned it around. But certainly not bad.

 

His control was terrible too at that point with 20 pitches, only 11 strikes and lots of pitches that weren't even close.

[Daniel Labude]

Manoah hung 2 sliders for singles in the 2nd. Fastball again looked good for the most part minus a few high balls. Got 2 line outs and another K

[gruber92]

Very good 1st inning for Manoah. Fastball had good velo and movement. Slider had a few very good ones with 2 plane movement like he used to. He was 2-2 on his pitch challenges

 

Weak single to SS then SB

 

Wood weak ground out to Manoah

 

Weak chopper to Manoah that he tried to bare hand, R scored

 

Passed ball on Jansen

 

Strikeout

 

Strikeout

 

What happened in the second? He was hit hard and lucky the line drives were right at defenders. He's done, forget about him.

[Daniel Labude]

What happened in the second? He was hit hard and lucky the line drives were right at defenders. He's done, forget about him.

 

Fastballs over the plate on the line drives. He looks really focused on throwing strikes with the fastball. A bunch of good location ones, but missed a few over the middle

[Daniel Labude]

Barger walked and Orelvis had a 102.8 mph single to right field. Really impressed with both of them to start this season, especially given the s*** weather. Both hitting the ball hard and making good swing decisions. Barger playing a lot of 3B and Orelvis 2B. Both could be upgrades to the big league team. I think that is the Jays plan at some point this season