Should the Jays shake up the pen?

[BigCecil]

I don't care about leaving Osuna as saves collector. Not every manager (I'd actually say most don't) have a strict 8th inning guy, 7th inning guy. That's all I want, if you have 4 lefties up, Cecil warm, don't put in Sanchez just because he's da eighth inning guy.

 

Agree. The Jays were indicating that they were considering Sanchez and Osuna the new Ward and Henke 8/9 guys. I think even Gibby now realizes this pipe dream is not materializing.

[Brownie19]

Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet - but do we think Gibby is smart enough to demote Sanchez from the 8th inning role....or is he going to cost us playoff games?

 

Personally - I worry it's the later because he's stupid.

[CHRIS]

Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet - but do we think Gibby is smart enough to demote Sanchez from the 8th inning role....or is he going to cost us playoff games?

 

I do think he's smart enough. His leash last night was pretty short with Cecil ready to go when needed. Big change right there from a couple of weeks ago. I can't see Sanchez getting into another important 8th inning spot for a while now.

[Krylian]

Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet - but do we think Gibby is smart enough to demote Sanchez from the 8th inning role....or is he going to cost us playoff games?

 

Personally - I worry it's the later because he's stupid.

 

He pulled Cecil out of the closers role when things weren't working out. He bailed on Delabar when the command issues didn't improve. I think a week ago, Gibby leaves Sanchez in for more than 2 batters...he had a quicker hook with him than he has in the past...and I don't think Sanchez is long for the 8th inning.

[intentional wok]

This had better be the last straw with Sanchez and I hope Gibbons realizes precisely how much of his ass was saved by Cecil coming in and blowing the doors off the Yankees.

 

Like, it could have gone south so easily. Cecil had to be exactly as amazing as he was to claw the team out of that. He even had luck on his side with an arguably BS strikeout on Gardner.

[Krylian]

The whole Blue Jays organization has been married to Sanchez for years, though. This is a delicate situation.

 

And Cecil's been around even longer.

 

Sanchez is only 23. There's nothing delicate about it. This is his first full season in the majors. If he can't perform in high leverage situations (especially at this time of year) then you move someone in that can. Donaldson and Price have already said it better (about getting it done, and trying doesn't mean anything)).

 

The hook came quicker last night that I've ever seen for Sanchez. My guess is Sanchez's next outing will be to face one right-handed hitter. Nothing more. Hopefully build his confidence back up slowly.

[thatoneguy]

The whole Blue Jays organization has been married to Sanchez for years, though. This is a delicate situation.

 

Wish this relationship was going towards the god of thunder instead.

[Wolf]

Wish this relationship was going towards the god of thunder instead.

 

From what i read aftre the Dickey trade, the Mets asked for Sanchez first. But the Jays didn't want to give him up lol. The Mets then asked for Syndergaard. The rest is history.

 

Don't know what the Jays saw in Sanchez that they didn't see in Syndergaard early on in their career.

[Krylian]

From what i read aftre the Dickey trade, the Mets asked for Sanchez first. But the Jays didn't want to give him up lol. The Mets then asked for Syndergaard. The rest is history.

 

Don't know what the Jays saw in Sanchez that they didn't see in Syndergaard early on in their career.

 

More movement on the fastball. More advanced breaking ball.

[KingKat]

From what i read aftre the Dickey trade, the Mets asked for Sanchez first. But the Jays didn't want to give him up lol. The Mets then asked for Syndergaard. The rest is history.

 

Don't know what the Jays saw in Sanchez that they didn't see in Syndergaard early on in their career.

 

In Great Expectations, it's written that AA asked the Mets who they wanted and they chose Syndergaard. There's no mention that Sanchez even came up.

[o2cui2i]

On vacation and not keeping up as much as I'd like, but I'd like to see Lowe as the setup guy.

[Boxcar]

Not sure if anyone has asked this question yet - but do we think Gibby is smart enough to demote Sanchez from the 8th inning role....or is he going to cost us playoff games?

 

Personally - I worry it's the later because he's stupid.

 

Ned Yost continuing to use Holland to close is worse IMO. To make yourself feel better, just remember that Gibbons is just as dumb as every other manager in charge of a playoff team.

[burlingtonbandit]

The whole Blue Jays organization has been married to Sanchez for years, though. This is a delicate situation.

 

If that were the case he would still be a Starter right now. By demoting him to the pen I think their stance on him changed. Gibby in the postgame mentioned that you want guys that can limit contact late in the game (referring to Cecil) so I think he's leaning towards more cecil and lowe late in the game.

[burlingtonbandit]

Forum members will be happy

 

[Sammy225]

Ned Yost continuing to use Holland to close is worse IMO. To make yourself feel better, just remember that Gibbons is just as dumb as every other manager in charge of a playoff team.

 

Its like Managers almost have little to no effect on where a team finishes......

[Krylian]

Its like Managers almost have little to no effect on where a team finishes......

 

 

Blasphemy

[Brownie19]

Agree. The Jays were indicating that they were considering Sanchez and Osuna the new Ward and Henke 8/9 guys. I think even Gibby now realizes this pipe dream is not materializing.

 

Was that the actual Blue Jays? or the moronic duo of Pat and Buck?

[HERPDERP]

Forum members will be happy

 

 

this is why we should never listen to Gibby quotes. It was just two nights ago he said he had full faith in Sanchez. And of course now he backs off. Which I agree with, but its annoying that he speaks definitively but pulls a 180 quickly.

[jaysfan2014]

Ned Yost continuing to use Holland to close is worse IMO. To make yourself feel better, just remember that Gibbons is just as dumb as every other manager in charge of a playoff team.

 

And if Yost continues this, he's going to cost KC top seed in the AL.. hope they like playing the Rangers (3-4 vs. them), or the Astros (2-4). Don't see the Royals getting out of the ALDS...

[AdamGreenwood]

The problem is that we have an idiot manager who thinks it's more important to have your setup guy pitch the 8th inning, and your closer to pitch the 9th inning, than try to get a preferred left/right matchup.

[AdamGreenwood]

this is why we should never listen to Gibby quotes. It was just two nights ago he said he had full faith in Sanchez. And of course now he backs off. Which I agree with, but its annoying that he speaks definitively but pulls a 180 quickly.

 

You always do everything you can to show confidence in your players, until have to make a move.

The last thing you want is a pitcher worried about one more bad pitch equalling a demotion,

On the flip side, if you're always saying everything is great and then demoting people, players never really know when they're safe, because they know you're full of s***, when you try to deliver reassurances.

[Brownie19]

From what i read aftre the Dickey trade, the Mets asked for Sanchez first. But the Jays didn't want to give him up lol. The Mets then asked for Syndergaard. The rest is history.

 

Don't know what the Jays saw in Sanchez that they didn't see in Syndergaard early on in their career.

 

I think I told the board this awhile ago, but I went to a Christmas party back in 2011 and AA was there. He asked everyone to guess who his favourite prospect in the entire organization was....nobody guessed it was Sanchez, who was coming off some brutal results in rookie and A- ball...

 

As noted above, the Jays have been married to him for a long time. If only his command/control caught up with the pure stuff he has.

[Brownie19]

Ned Yost continuing to use Holland to close is worse IMO. To make yourself feel better, just remember that Gibbons is just as dumb as every other manager in charge of a playoff team.

 

Holland has been pretty bad this year. Joe Blanton's been nearly as valuable - Ryan Madsen has been!

[burlingtonbandit]

this is why we should never listen to Gibby quotes. It was just two nights ago he said he had full faith in Sanchez. And of course now he backs off. Which I agree with, but its annoying that he speaks definitively but pulls a 180 quickly.

 

I think you have to think of it from the Team's perspective as well. Obviously as a manager you are going to back your guys 100% because you want your players to have confidence that you support them. If Gibby says "Well Sanchez is going to get yanked if he keeps pitching like this" only bad things will come from that.

[burlingtonbandit]

The problem is that we have an idiot manager who thinks it's more important to have your setup guy pitch the 8th inning, and your closer to pitch the 9th inning, than try to get a preferred left/right matchup.

 

I'd disagree on that. Gibby always seemed intent on playing the matchups in the beginning of the season. It was only until the pen was garbage was that he came out with these "roles"

[Krylian]

I think you have to think of it from the Team's perspective as well. Obviously as a manager you are going to back your guys 100% because you want your players to have confidence that you support them. If Gibby says "Well Sanchez is going to get yanked if he keeps pitching like this" only bad things will come from that.

 

It's true. But many fans don't get that. They want everyone to be a robot and don't want to hear about the touchy feely side of anything. Just give me FIP and to hell with anything else.

[L54]

Hendriks is better than Osuna and is having a better season.

 

Hendriks

Osuna / Cecil

Lowe / Loup

Hawkins / Sanchez

 

Obviously this isn't going to happen.

[EMK19]

What irony tonight that the two guys that we all have been pushing for as high leverage guys put us behind (Hendriks, Lowe). I still support these two for high leverage situations though, they're still the best choices, both just made fatal mistakes in location today.

 

I really wonder what's going on with Hawkins at this point, I was very surprised to not see him out there today at all at any point in the game... not even warming up as a matter of fact... makes me wonder if he might have re aggravated something during his bullpen warmup last night, or just a case of being extremely careful with him.

[FrozenRopes]

Baseball is ups and downs. Gibby will have to go with the hot hand in the post season. Right now Stevie Wonder might as well pick.

[Krylian]

What irony tonight that the two guys that we all have been pushing for as high leverage guys put us behind (Hendriks, Lowe). I still support these two for high leverage situations though, they're still the best choices, both just made fatal mistakes in location today.

 

I really wonder what's going on with Hawkins at this point, I was very surprised to not see him out there today at all at any point in the game... not even warming up as a matter of fact... makes me wonder if he might have re aggravated something during his bullpen warmup last night, or just a case of being extremely careful with him.

 

The irony is lost on the Sanchez haters.