Ace worth the money - Price or perhaps Greinke?

[G-Snarls]

FWIW Jim Bowden thinks that prices for ace caliber pitchers will stay sky high, but that the price for second tier guys is going to drop due to unfavorable risk/reward and some bad deals from the past couple of years.

[BigCecil]

FWIW Jim Bowden thinks that prices for ace caliber pitchers will stay sky high, but that the price for second tier guys is going to drop due to unfavorable risk/reward and some bad deals from the past couple of years.

 

That actually makes sense after seeing deals for 2nd tier guys like Jiminez and Arroyo look so questionable in hindsight.

[G-Snarls]

That actually makes sense after seeing deals for 2nd tier guys like Jiminez and Arroyo look so questionable in hindsight.

 

Those are probably the deals he was suggesting on the radio, he just didn't name any names

 

OTOH Grienke and Scherzer have been worth every penny (so far)

[MusicaEsLivida]

Price is a perfect fit. logical choice

[polar bear]

too lazy to check the back threads, but was there any poster who hated the Reyes contract at the time of the Marlins trade?

 

I wonder if people will feel the same about Tulowitzki in about 2-3 years time

 

All depends how you feel about him now,right?.

[art_vandelay275]

IMO that is a distinct possibility. In reading the Rox pre/early season "concerns" about Tulo, there were some discussion about whether he'd be open to switching positions. Tulo's response was something like I'd rater retire than switch. The quote I remembered was "This is the way I'm wired". The only difference that someone had already mentioned is that speed is not a big factor in Tulo's game. Also Tulo has the power/slugging component in his game although we haven't seen much of it in a Jays uniform. Looking at how Jose and Eddy can still get around on 98/99 mph fastballs says that power doesn't necessarily decline with age although I wonder how much of that is just it's just because it is Jose and Eddy

 

too lazy to check the back threads, but was there any poster who hated the Reyes contract at the time of the Marlins trade?

 

I wonder if people will feel the same about Tulowitzki in about 2-3 years time

[art_vandelay275]

It's an interesting discussion whether we want a strong rotation with strong 2nd tier guys throughout the rotation or actually an ace. One thought is that if you are contending, you want/need an ace. It's a big mystery to me on what's going to happen after '16 when Jose/Eddy are FAs. There are so many questions - Will Jose and Eddy both still be elite? Can Jays afford both? If they only extend Jose, will there be a chemistry problem as it seems that Eddy and Jose are extremely close. I know we'll still have JD, Tulo and Martin but to me, these 2 guys, hitting back to back are something special...

 

To me, I think we have one more year to go for it all which seems to mean it'd be ideal to have a true ace. After that, I don't really know. Maybe instead of back loading the contract, we front load it so that we have to make a trade, it'll be more palatable for other teams? I really don't know

 

 

I'd target two 2nd tier guys like Anderson, Chen, Kennedy, Latos, Leake, and Kazmir instead.

 

Stro

Leake

Chen

Hutch

Osuna/Dirty/etc..

 

I really like anderson, but super scared of his durability. Love the GB%.

Kennedy will be a steal for someone in a good pitchers park.

 

A very solid rotation with tons of upside.

 

I love Price but I think with our offence two of these guys will be better value. Close AAV but like 3 years less term

[BigCecil]

Those are probably the deals he was suggesting on the radio, he just didn't name any names

 

OTOH Grienke and Scherzer have been worth every penny (so far)

 

Its an interesting debate. Remember the days when we had Clemens and then Roy Halladay? All we had then was an ace...and Delgado it seemed. That was pre wild card in a stacked AL East, but we just couldn't get over that hump.

 

An ace is awesome as it gives you a better chance to win every 5th day but a strong position player can help you win every day. If we tie too much up in Price, as example, something has to give unless we develop more young talent than we have in decades.

 

Target Tier 2 guys and pray Stro becomes a #1.

Edited September 14, 2015 by BigCecil

[Jayday]

"Trout is a perfect example of the speed decrease (although his bat is so damned good, it more than makes up for it)."

 

 

Trout is very young.. his speed wouldn't have decreased because of age, if in fact it did decrease, which i see no evidence of .

Also players with speed that have had no injuries or excessive weight gain have maintained close to 90% of their speed into the mid thirties.

[L54]

Mike Trout steals by year:

 

2012- 49

2013-33

2014-16

2015-10

 

BSR:

2012- 14.1

2013- 7.8

2014- 6.5

2015- 2.2

 

Now obviously I don't know if Mike Trout's 60 yd dash time has decreased since 2012, and these two stats don't really give that much of an insight into pure speed. But if presented with the numbers above, I would be able to make a well educated guess that he has indeed gotten slower. To question whether or not it has decreased at all is a little extreme.

 

I don't know for sure, but speed likely peaks around 22-24 for most athletes.

 

Sad to think that we have probably already seen the best years of Mike Trout's career

[Professional Hitter]

It's an interesting discussion whether we want a strong rotation with strong 2nd tier guys throughout the rotation or actually an ace. One thought is that if you are contending, you want/need an ace. It's a big mystery to me on what's going to happen after '16 when Jose/Eddy are FAs. There are so many questions - Will Jose and Eddy both still be elite? Can Jays afford both? If they only extend Jose, will there be a chemistry problem as it seems that Eddy and Jose are extremely close. I know we'll still have JD, Tulo and Martin but to me, these 2 guys, hitting back to back are something special...

 

To me, I think we have one more year to go for it all which seems to mean it'd be ideal to have a true ace. After that, I don't really know. Maybe instead of back loading the contract, we front load it so that we have to make a trade, it'll be more palatable for other teams? I really don't know

 

I feel like if the Jays are going to extend JB they're going to need EE's DH position to do it. He has 1 more year if RF as a regular max before he becomes a serious liability.

[art_vandelay275]

You bring up a good point about the position defensively. That further complicates the whether to extend, how long, extend both question...

 

I am just telling myself to enjoy this team this and next year. I don't think we necessarily will be bad after that (or at least I am hoping) but it will be a different team.

 

I feel like if the Jays are going to extend JB they're going to need EE's DH position to do it. He has 1 more year if RF as a regular max before he becomes a serious liability.

[art_vandelay275]

You know after last year based on the brief glimpses of Sanchez and Norris, I expected them to step up big time this year. I was thinking that Sanchez can even be a #2 - purely based on how electric his stuff was. Seeing Sanchez early season struggles as a starter this year, I realized what exceptional talent you need to be (beyond just stuff) for an early-20, 1/2 yr kid to become an ace of a staff.

 

Given this, I sure hope Stro does well but I am tempering my expectation for him to become the #1. OTOH, he proved me wrong big time based on his Sat outing so maybe if anyone can do it, it may be him

 

 

...

 

Target Tier 2 guys and pray Stro becomes a #1.