Ryan Goins Can Stick?

[Governator]

That was an experiment the Tigers did because of positional need. If I had worked out, they wouldn't have needed to make the Gose trade. It didn't and that's for the best.

 

Good point.

[Krylian]

Wasn't Detroit's plans to make him an outfielder because of Kinsler? I'm not sure how he did there.

 

For Kinsler, I get it. For Goins? No.

[Sammy225]

Put him on the market and see what you can get for him. I think Travis bat is more sustainable and his defense is still pretty good. It will all depend if he can sustain what he has done since the AS break. I mean even Pillar had a month outbreak in him then regressed to his ways. No reason to think Goins is any different.

[Governator]

For Kinsler, I get it. For Goins? No.

 

I agree, regardless we've always had injuries to our mid infield, he'll get plenty of time.

[Krylian]

Put him on the market and see what you can get for him. I think Travis bat is more sustainable and his defense is still pretty good. It will all depend if he can sustain what he has done since the AS break. I mean even Pillar had a month outbreak in him then regressed to his ways. No reason to think Goins is any different.

 

Keep them both. When have we ever not had infield injuries. I've had just about enough of Kawasaki getting called up cause there are no better options. There are now better options.

[theblujay]

After 100s of pages of "debate" with the omniscient beings of this board it looks like our small minority was right.

 

So one huge I told you so to all the Goins doubters. Players can actually improve!!!!

[Sorrow]

I agree, regardless we've always had injuries to our mid infield, he'll get plenty of time.

 

It's going to be important to have Goins on the bench next year to make sure Tulo and Travis both get time off their feet. A conversion to a dirt infield helps but a game at DH or a game on the bench is still much better. I'm more concerned about or OF next year than I am the IF.

[Boxcar]

Why can't we enjoy Ryan Goins' breakout as a very good bench option without getting carried away? Seriously, I am thrilled at these developments, but someone suggested trading Tulowitzki to accommodate Ryan Goins? Is this real life?

[KingKat]

Keep them both. When have we ever not had infield injuries. I've had just about enough of Kawasaki getting called up cause there are no better options. There are now better options.

 

Agreed. I don't think the return on Goins would surpass what he's worth to the team as a depth option. Now if someone wants to make Goins their starter and offers you a lot then sure take it but I don't think that's terribly likely. Teams will be hesitant to drastically change their evaluation on a guy just based on one half season. Ten years ago, Clint Barmes had a 886 OPS through the first half for the Rockies. It didn't really change the kind of player he is.

[HERPDERP]

Why can't we enjoy Ryan Goins' breakout as a very good bench option without getting carried away? Seriously, I am thrilled at these developments, but someone suggested trading Tulowitzki to accommodate Ryan Goins? Is this real life?

 

That's absurd.

 

My love for Goins maxes out in that he can stick on the 25-man roster on a MLB team.

 

He's also someone that can fill in admirably as a starter because his defense is that good.

[Spanky99]

Holy f***!

[Krylian]

It's going to be important to have Goins on the bench next year to make sure Tulo and Travis both get time off their feet. A conversion to a dirt infield helps but a game at DH or a game on the bench is still much better. I'm more concerned about or OF next year than I am the IF.

 

I'm most concerned about our pitching.

 

Price is a FA

Buehrle is a FA

Estrada is a FA

 

There's a chance all three could be gone.

 

That option on Dickey will almost assuredly get picked up for just that reason (losing everyone else).

 

Stroman

Hutch

Dickey

????

Sanchez back in the rotation?

 

Will need to add at least 2 ML starters and there is no one in the minors that's really an option. Conner Greene took huge strides this season but to hope for anything from him in 2016 means you're in trouble.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Krylian

[Maahfaace]

offensive players get paid more than defensive players on the open market. dumn

 

Goins hits arbitration way before Travis meaning goins will be making more Monaaaaay way sooner....so dumn

[Maahfaace]

Why can't we enjoy Ryan Goins' breakout as a very good bench option without getting carried away? Seriously, I am thrilled at these developments, but someone suggested trading Tulowitzki to accommodate Ryan Goins? Is this real life?

 

This board is hilarious, when pillar had a hot month people were freaking out he could be a 5 war player.....

[Spanky99]

Goins hits arbitration way before Travis meaning goins will be making more Monaaaaay way sooner....so dumn

 

I'm inclined to say, I'm sure GD knows this.

[Maahfaace]

I'm inclined to say, I'm sure GD knows this.

 

Didnt seem like it when he said goins is cheaper

[Spanky99]

Didnt seem like it when he said goins is cheaper

 

This thread is in jest, to a MIF, who can stick.

[Spanky99]

Y'all been trolled.

[Maahfaace]

This thread is in jest, to a MIF, who can stick.

 

Spanks go read again....everything he's written says otherwise.....to early in the day for sauce glasses

[Spanky99]

Spanks go read again....everything he's written says otherwise.....to early in the day for sauce glasses

 

Read my above post.

[Maahfaace]

Read my above post.

 

Some serious trolling if that's the case....

[Spanky99]

Some serious trolling if that's the case....

 

Tit for tat, as I recall.

[fatcowxlive]

Hey Fatcow....good to see you again!

 

Thanks dude! I try to come by as often as I can lol

 

Why can't we enjoy Ryan Goins' breakout as a very good bench option without getting carried away? Seriously, I am thrilled at these developments, but someone suggested trading Tulowitzki to accommodate Ryan Goins? Is this real life?

 

Word. Also a debate about Goins vs. Travis? Really? He's progressed from being AAA material to a good bench option in the majors, that's about it

[HERPDERP]

As of this hour, Ryan Goins is still trending

 

#hypeisreal

[KingKat]

Ryan Goins 2014 wOBA: .212

Ryan Goins 2015 wOBA: .299

Ryan Goins projected wOBA rest of season: .271

 

Under .300 is still bad but it's not hole in the lineup bad and that's a huge stride.

[metafour]

This. Pillar was torrid in July too, but then rolled back to what he actually is as a hitter. There was all this talk about reducing his leg kick being the reason etc....like Goins tweak of leaving bat on shoulder we are discussing now.

 

You're thinking of Pillar in June, but the two really aren't that comparable. None of Pillar's peripherals changed during that hot streak, in fact he actually posted his LOWEST walk-rate of the season during that month, and his third highest strikeout rate. The conclusion? He was doing the exact same thing he always does, which confirms that he was simply "hot" and/or benefiting from luck.

 

This Goins thing is different because his BB% post All-Star break has been elite; going from 5.7% to 16.5%, which shows obvious improvement at the plate. What are the implications? The significantly higher walk rate means that he's seeing more pitches per at-bat (thus increasing the likelihood of seeing a hittable/poor pitch), and it also means that he's being more selective at the plate, which will naturally indicate that when he does swing, its at more hittable pitches because he's doing a better job dictating the course of the at-bat. All of these factors realistically contribute as a possible explanation for why he is hitting significantly better, apart from it simply being a fluke hot-streak.

 

I'm not suggesting that this is something that will continue long-term, but plate discipline isn't exactly something that you can "luck". It also isn't a skill that is generally seen as teachable, which is why Goins is going to be a very interesting case to follow in the future. Mechanical changes to a swing can however "unlock" plate discipline. His 16.5% BB rate post All-Star break is 5th highest league wide, so he's not just been "good", he's been very good at drawing walks.

[Orgfiller]

When will you admit that Goins is a good offensive player, average at worse, given his position?

 

Lol average at worst? I love what he's doing but there's not nearly enough of a sample to suggest that Goins' ceiling is anything higher than an 80 wRC+.

[Dick_Pole]

In most concerned about our pitching.

 

Price is a FA

Buehrle is a FA

Estrada is a FA

 

There's a chance all three could be gone.

 

That option on Dickey will almost assuredly get picked up for just that reason (losing everyone else).

 

Stroman

Hutch

Dickey

????

Sanchez back in the rotation?

 

Will need to add at least 2 ML starters and there is no one in the minors that's really an option. Conner Greene took huge strides this season but to hope for anything from him in 2016 means you're in trouble.

 

A deep FA market coming up for starters this off-season and next year's slogan is going to be:

 

"Toronto, the place where you can rack up 30 wins just by showing up every 5 days. See Drew Hutchison"

 

I don't think the Jays will have big problems filling out the rotation especially with the front office stability.

 

I am 99% certain the team can get Estrada or an Estrada-like pitcher based on the above slogan. A solid #5/swingman type.

 

Osuna will likely be promoted to the rotation.

 

Price, we all know he is a rental. Buehrle, offer the QO and hope he at least doesn't retire if he doesn't re-sign. Hell, if he cares about winning maybe he will come back since the 2016 Jays have as good a chance as anyone with a steady rotation that he could contribute towards.

[GD]

When will you admit that Goins is a good offensive player, average at worse, given his position?

 

Oh for f***'s sake please don't do this. Just let everyone enjoy his coming into usefulness without being stupid, and snobby about said stupidity.

 

I'm inclined to say, I'm sure GD knows this.

 

Lol you'd be a great drug sniffing dog.

[93 Jays]

A good scenario would be Goins continuing this pace to the end of the season. Then he can be shopped in a thin MIF market in hopes of getting back a useful piece. If no such trade exists, you keep him and hope he continues to be a worthwhile depth player at a position that the Jays have struggled to fill.

 

I think a good comparison to Goins for the older fans around is Manny Lee. Good glove, frustrating as hell with the bat. But at the time Manny got as much hate by casuals as the so called "advanced stat" crew has given Goins until recently.

 

Why trade him for a useful piece when he IS a useful piece. Pitching and defense win when the chips are down and his defense is stellar. He gets to balls that other players have no chance at and he turns the DP as well as anyone in the game. The team doesn't depend on offense from his position, so the value he gives them on defense is amplified huge. He's a defensive run saver and a momentum killer. ANY offense he gives our team is simply a bonus. On top of that, as others have mentioned, he is a capable SS who can give some days rest at that position without sacrificing defensive integrity.

 

He is a valuable asset. Trading him for another one makes no sense considering the limited return we would get.