John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[glory]

So AA is not a good GM but it's not the owners' fault for employing him for 5+ years? When the company keeps hiring s*** presidents/gms that can't make the playoffs ever maybe it is the owners' fault.

 

AA did not look like a bad GM in 2012. Rogers gave him a ton of money to spend to improve the roster, and he set the franchise back many years with the moves he ended up making. Now he's simply playing out the rest of his contract, as Rogers probably doesn't want to pay Alex to sit at home. If they extend him beyond this season, then yes, blame Rogers. Otherwise, no, they are not the issue.

[Boxcar]

Gibbons did a great job today. Estrada vs. Scherzer and the Jays win? Unreal performance by Gibby.

[L54]

gibbons did a great job today. Estrada vs. Scherzer and the jays win? Unreal performance by gibby.

 

+1 war

[Boxcar]

I'd love to hear the detractor's thoughts on today's game? Estrada beats Scherzer, all the right moves are made, Jays win? Got pretty quiet in here.

[glory]

I'd love to hear the detractor's thoughts on today's game? Estrada beats Scherzer, all the right moves are made, Jays win? Got pretty quiet in here.

 

Well, when I make my usual posts about Gibbons, you tell me to stop. Now you're encouraging it? Make up your damn mind!

[Daniel Labude]

I'd love to hear the detractor's thoughts on today's game? Estrada beats Scherzer, all the right moves are made, Jays win? Got pretty quiet in here.

 

You think the decision to fire him or keep him is based off of one game....wow...just wow

[RealAccountant]

I can't believe that anyone would have any support for this current regime. Whether its AA or Gibby or the Beest its time to start fresh. The core of Bautista EE Dickey Burly Reyes is barely a .500 club.

 

It's time to move on. Its been 6 years. How many GMs get that much time without sniffing the playoffs. Now is the time to trade Bautista and EE for mlb ready assets. Focus on retooling a core of Martin Donaldson Travis Hutch Stroman and build the right way

 

I can't believe the loyalty AA gives to these guys. I would like to see Dan Douquette brought in this off season

[Boxcar]

You think the decision to fire him or keep him is based off of one game....wow...just wow

 

Well, I'd entertain trading Gibby for Trout but I dunno if it's worth it for us. We need a good manager more than anything and Pillar hit two homers today to force all the h8rs to eat crow.

[JFD]

I'd love to hear the detractor's thoughts on today's game? Estrada beats Scherzer, all the right moves are made, Jays win? Got pretty quiet in here.

 

well hallef***inglujah. the Jays won a game!

[Boxcar]

well hallef***inglujah. the Jays won a game!

 

Yeah. They beat the current best pitcher in baseball. That's kind of an important point.

[glory]

You think the decision to fire him or keep him is based off of one game....wow...just wow

 

He is just trolling because he thinks Gibby Haters are basing their hatred on a few losses rather than SEVEN f***ING YEARS of seeing this clown's s***** managing. Seeing him cry after Gibbons is gone will be somewhat entertaining.

[Rusty_Savage]

I'd love to hear the detractor's thoughts on today's game? Estrada beats Scherzer, all the right moves are made, Jays win? Got pretty quiet in here.

 

I get where your going, but the Jays are 24-30 and in fourth place in the worst division in baseball. It may not be all on Gibby but a change is needed. Usually, it's the manager that goes first. Get a fresh face/voice in there to see if they right the ship before they start selling off assets either at the trade deadlineor more likely in the off season.

[Boxcar]

If by making all the right moves includes sending Portabello in hopes that the catcher makes a poor decision,and errant throw,so that Martin can steal home, then ya.

 

Blind squirrel,finds nut,summin,summin.Sun shines on a dogs ass,summin,summin.

 

So, in summation:

 

s*** on Gibbons for doing nothing

s*** on Gibbons for doing something that doesn't work

s*** on Gibbons for doing something that does work because, hey, John Gibbons called it so I couldn't have been the correct decision and he got lucky.

[Boxcar]

I get where your going, but the Jays are 24-30 and in fourth place in the worst division in baseball. It may not be all on Gibby but a change is needed. Usually, it's the manager that goes first. Get a fresh face/voice in there to see if they right the ship before they start selling off assets either at the trade deadlineor more likely in the off season.

 

Worked spectacularly for the Marlins.

[Boxcar]

No, s*** on Gibbons because he has no business managing a big league baseball team. Bobby Valentine would be a better option than this fool.

 

I don't think you really want to go there, but I understand you're cranky and I'll let it go.

[Rusty_Savage]

Worked spectacularly for the Marlins.

 

60% of the time, it works every time.

 

Either way, this team is not good enough to win and Gibbons is probably gone by seasons end at the latest.

[Olerud363]

Well, when I make my usual posts about Gibbons, you tell me to stop. Now you're encouraging it? Make up your damn mind!

 

he wants to hear what you think of Gibbons after a win where he made the right moves you idiot.

 

Also - he left Estrada in to hit and pitch the 6th, and then Hendricks in to hit in the 8th, so they could pitch the next inning... this was genious because he didn't have to overwork Osuna.

 

Gibby is the guy!

[RealAccountant]

he wants to hear what you think of Gibbons after a win where he made the right moves you idiot.

 

Also - he left Estrada in to hit and pitch the 6th, and then Hendricks in to hit in the 8th, so they could pitch the next inning... this was genious because he didn't have to overwork Osuna.

 

Gibby is the guy!

 

The proud The Few to get to 500 wins with a losing record

[Olerud363]

He is just trolling because he thinks Gibby Haters are basing their hatred on a few losses rather than SEVEN f***ING YEARS of seeing this clown's s***** managing. Seeing him cry after Gibbons is gone will be somewhat entertaining.

 

I've rarely see a post that said --

 

"Gibbons made a trivial small move tonight that went wrong... but that is neither here nor there... I would like to evaluate his performance on 7 years of work using manager stats I collected..."

 

it is more often "f*** gibbons for whatever small moves led to the last few losses..."

[Boxcar]

"I hated Gibbons from the start, so I am unfairly biased towards anything he does because I am not a real fan. I have no ability to analyze things so I choose to blame things I don't understand on Gibbons because I desperately need a scapegoat."

[glory]

he wants to hear what you think of Gibbons after a win where he made the right moves you idiot.

 

Also - he left Estrada in to hit and pitch the 6th, and then Hendricks in to hit in the 8th, so they could pitch the next inning... this was genious because he didn't have to overwork Osuna.

 

Gibby is the guy!

 

LOL. You guys are so f***ing stupid, it's comical.

 

Do you think Pillar and Goins are bad hitters? Fine, but then whenever they do well offensively in a single game, you should say how great they did.

 

Give me a damn break. Track record means more than a single game. Any manager will make a good move here or there. It's consistently making good moves that makes a manager good.

 

Insane. Absolutely f'n insane. s*** on Gaston and Farrell, but verbally fellate Gibbons despite him being worse than both. You guys don't deserve to see a winning team.

[RealAccountant]

LOL. You guys are so f***ing stupid, it's comical.

 

Do you think Pillar and Goins are bad hitters? Fine, but then whenever they do well offensively in a single game, you should say how great they did.

 

Give me a damn break. Track record means more than a single game. Any manager will make a good move here or there. It's consistently making good moves that makes a manager good.

 

Insane. Absolutely f'n insane. s*** on Gaston and Farrell, but verbally fellate Gibbons despite him being worse than both. You guys don't deserve to see a winning team.

 

Its amazing that there is no recognition for two ex bluejays managers who have taken a team from opening day to the world series. Yet the guy who has managed almost a thousand games without managing a meaningful one is constantly defended.

[Olerud363]

LOL. You guys are so f***ing stupid, it's comical.

 

Do you think Pillar and Goins are bad hitters? Fine, but then whenever they do well offensively in a single game, you should say how great they did.

 

Give me a damn break. Track record means more than a single game. Any manager will make a good move here or there. It's consistently making good moves that makes a manager good.

 

Insane. Absolutely f'n insane. s*** on Gaston and Farrell, but verbally fellate Gibbons despite him being worse than both. You guys don't deserve to see a winning team.

 

You realize that if Gaston was managing the team the lineup would be something like - Reyes, Pillar, Bautista, EE, Donaldson, night in, night out.

 

In 93 - Gaston got 3 - .400 + on base percentage players -- think about that... top 3 batting averages in the league --

 

Olerud and Molitor/Alomar were often hitting 5th and 6h - I s*** you not --

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR199310230.shtml

 

We won right!! Touch them all joe... no big deal... right??

 

The problem is that upper management Beeston mainly, has that image of 'touch em all Joe' in their head, and has a mistaken impression of what wins baseball games...

 

If the next president of the team also has that flaw... we are screwed for another 10 years.

 

Gibbons seems to recognize who the best players are... Josh Donaldson hitting second indicates that Gibbons at least has an elementary understanding of what wins games... if he gets fired for a guy that doesn't "get it" it not only is a bad sign for the rest of the season... but it is a bad sign for the general direction of the franchise for the next decade...

 

If the next president doesn't "get it"... well the kids on the board will have to wait until there 30 for victory...

[Olerud363]

And just to give you the context... after Henderson came and was deservedly given the lead off spot, Olerud (.470 on base) and Molitor/Alomar (.400 on base) had to hit 5th/6th to make sure White (.330 or so) and Carter (.300) got their "respect" and were allowed to hit high in the lineup.

 

Gaston won despite himself... Out of Gaston/Gillick/Beeston... only Gillick has won else where... in fact only Gillick has won again... and only Gillick was even given a job elsewhere (in fact 3 of them, and he won at all of them).

 

The choice of manager indicates how functional upper management is/will be. If gibby is sacraficed I think it's a bad sign for the long term direction of the franchise.

[glory]

You realize that if Gaston was managing the team the lineup would be something like - Reyes, Pillar, Bautista, EE, Donaldson, night in, night out.

 

In 93 - Gaston got 3 - .400 + on base percentage players -- think about that... top 3 batting averages in the league --

 

Olerud and Molitor/Alomar were often hitting 5th and 6h - I s*** you not --

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR199310230.shtml

 

We won right!! Touch them all joe... no big deal... right??

 

The problem is that upper management Beeston mainly, has that image of 'touch em all Joe' in their head, and has a mistaken impression of what wins baseball games...

 

If the next president of the team also has that flaw... we are screwed for another 10 years.

 

Gibbons seems to recognize who the best players are... Josh Donaldson hitting second indicates that Gibbons at least has an elementary understanding of what wins games... if he gets fired for a guy that doesn't "get it" it not only is a bad sign for the rest of the season... but it is a bad sign for the general direction of the franchise for the next decade...

 

If the next president doesn't "get it"... well the kids on the board will have to wait until there 30 for victory...

 

Gibbons stopped being able to use a bullpen this season (his best reliever in Cecil never pitches because he's being saved for the 9th). He does not value defense based on his lineup construction year to year (DH's in the outfield, 1B at 3B, Edwin in LF, etc). He's rigid enough to value personal bias over putting the best lineup on the field (benching Rasmus last September, using Navarro at DH, using Castro everyday out of the pen when he can't get AAA hitters out yet, etc). He puts Reyes at lead off every single game, just like Gaston liked keeping guys in certain spots.

 

What exactly is so smart about Gibbons? What does he do that others before him were inadequate at? Gibbons gets a free ride for no reason. His team's consistently underperform and he does nothing that no other s***** manager couldn't do. Has any player come out and credit Gibbons for their careers, like Bautista did with Cito? Did players take the next step with Gibbons managing due to any tangible coaching? A robot could do what Gibbons does, and probably better.

[glory]

Its amazing that there is no recognition for two ex bluejays managers who have taken a team from opening day to the world series. Yet the guy who has managed almost a thousand games without managing a meaningful one is constantly defended.

 

It's not even the rings argument for me. I thought Gaston was a fine manager in 2008-10, and I thought Farrell was pretty bad, but both guys were bashed like crazy, while a guy like Gibbons with far less success despite far more to work with (much higher payrolls, more talent, worse division, more playoff spots, etc) is heralded as a genius. It's ridiculous.

[pickoff22]

It's not even the rings argument for me. I thought Gaston was a fine manager in 2008-10, and I thought Farrell was pretty bad, but both guys were bashed like crazy, while a guy like Gibbons with far less success despite far more to work with (much higher payrolls, more talent, worse division, more playoff spots, etc) is heralded as a genius. It's ridiculous.

 

I don't think anyone is saying he's a genius. There are better managers in the game of baseball and there are worse managers as well. People defend him against the argument that he's the main reason why the Jays have struggled in recent times. His haters are passionately against him and you constantly see people irrationally criticizing certain decisions, thus people call those people out. I'm not sure anyone is passionately "for" Gibby, but there are a lot of people who rant about him being terrible when that's just not the case. I would bet 90% of those who occasionally defend him would have no problem with him being replaced if a suitable candidate was found, but they also know it's not going to solve all of this team's problems.

[Boxcar]

Great post. Might have even been good enough to get through glory's thick skull (I won't hold my breath, though.)

[Olerud363]

I don't think anyone is saying he's a genius. There are better managers in the game of baseball and there are worse managers as well. People defend him against the argument that he's the main reason why the Jays have struggled in recent times. His haters are passionately against him and you constantly see people irrationally criticizing certain decisions, thus people call those people out. I'm not sure anyone is passionately "for" Gibby, but there are a lot of people who rant about him being terrible when that's just not the case. I would bet 90% of those who occasionally defend him would have no problem with him being replaced if a suitable candidate was found, but they also know it's not going to solve all of this team's problems.

 

Exactly my sentiments. If he is going to be fired I actually would want him to be fired right now... over lunch... today... replaced by a reasonable candidate, so that the new guy has 4 months to work with.

 

I just don't want him replaced by a dinasour who will set the franchise back a couple of years.

[CHRIS]

I just don't want him replaced by a dinasour who will set the franchise back a couple of years.

 

There are financial considerations as well. If we hire Dusty Baker, the toothpick budget goes through the roof, and we have no money to add a reliever at the deadline.