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General Jays Discussion 2015

TheHurl

By TheHurl
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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nextyear Draft Eligible

nextyear

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Thanks for the lesson. I guess I'll look at WAR, RBI, wOBA, and BB%.

 

No problem :D. I am sure that you are already aware of all the fascinating stats available at fangraphs. There are so many stats at fangraphs that anyone who is interested can really delve into a players offensive and defensive abilities. For example, I really like the Inside Edge Fielding section - http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3531&position=SS . Hopefully in the future, defense will be just as well quantified as offense.

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spats Draft Eligible

spats

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Posted
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Check out the Reyes story on CBS Sports. Doesn't want to play on a losing team..I'm sure that will endear him to management and teammates. So glad we got rid of that guy.
burlingtonbandit New Hampshire Fisher Cats

burlingtonbandit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Let me reduce that so that only relevant stats are showing:

 

fWAR

Trout = 6.8

DOnaldson = 7.1

 

Not at all. If you want to know who the most valuable is you have to look at Win Probability added. WAR says a Homerun in a 10-0 game is worth the same as a HR in a 4-3 game which it isn't if you are trying to know who helped the team win the most.

Jonzo First Round Pick

Jonzo

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Somebody with some seriously amazing photo editing skills just posted this on the Jays subreddit:

 

 

dmwnv4N.jpg

 

Is that the train from Brampton to Union Station?

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Not at all. If you want to know who the most valuable is you have to look at Win Probability added. WAR says a Homerun in a 10-0 game is worth the same as a HR in a 4-3 game which it isn't if you are trying to know who helped the team win the most.

 

I don't believe in crediting a player for favourable sequencing.

Sorrow Draft Eligible

Sorrow

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Why is an Indian train packed with Middle Eastern people?

 

Depending on where you are in India the dress isn't very different than most of the middle east. I've spent between Jordan and India about 6 months in the regions over the last 4-5 years.

burlingtonbandit New Hampshire Fisher Cats

burlingtonbandit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I don't believe in crediting a player for favourable sequencing.

 

You don't think a player deserves more credit for hitting a walk off HR than hitting a HR in the 7th inning to make his team go up 11-0?

TwistedLogic Cooperstown

TwistedLogic

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
You don't think a player deserves more credit for hitting a walk off HR than hitting a HR in the 7th inning to make his team go up 11-0?

 

No. Why should he get or lose credit based on whether the rest of his team was great or s*** that day? He delivered the best outcome he could, through the elements he could control. The rest doesn't matter.

burlingtonbandit New Hampshire Fisher Cats

burlingtonbandit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
No. Why should he get or lose credit based on whether the rest of his team was great or s*** that day? He delivered the best outcome he could, through the elements he could control. The rest doesn't matter.

 

Because he should deserve more credit based on the fact that outcome determines the game. He will surely be facing a much better pitcher in that situation while in a blowout he could be facing some scrub from the minors. 1 of those hits is a lot more difficult and should be rewarded higher.

 

Especially when we are talking about the Most VALUABLE player award. A player has more value if he is helping his team win more games. This isn't an award for most outstanding player.

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
You don't think a player deserves more credit for hitting a walk off HR than hitting a HR in the 7th inning to make his team go up 11-0?

 

No.

TwistedLogic Cooperstown

TwistedLogic

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Player A hit a solo home run in a game tied 7-7 in the top of the 12th. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player A represented the winning run.

 

Player B hit a solo home run in a game where his team was leading 7-0 in the 8th. His pitchers went on to allow 6 earned runs in the following half of the inning, but managed to hold the lead the rest of the way. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player B represented the winning run.

 

Why did one home run matter more than the other?

 

A run is a run is a run. Until the day comes where the umpires allow the leading team to bat in the bottom of the 9th, there is no such thing as a redundant run.

BigBounceyBlueBalls FCL Blue Jays

BigBounceyBlueBalls

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Player A hit a solo home run in a game tied 7-7 in the top of the 12th. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player A represented the winning run.

 

Player B hit a solo home run in a game where his team was leading 7-0 in the 8th. His pitchers went on to allow 6 earned runs in the following half of the inning, but managed to hold the lead the rest of the way. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player B represented the winning run.

 

Why did one home run matter more than the other?

 

A run is a run is a run. Until the day comes where the umpires allow the leading team to bat in the bottom of the 9th, there is no such thing as a redundant run.

 

Not True a run is run are not all the same, nore are all hits just hits, Other wise people would not keep stats on game tying or winning hits and runs!

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Player A hit a solo home run in a game tied 7-7 in the top of the 12th. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player A represented the winning run.

 

Player B hit a solo home run in a game where his team was leading 7-0 in the 8th. His pitchers went on to allow 6 earned runs in the following half of the inning, but managed to hold the lead the rest of the way. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player B represented the winning run.

 

Why did one home run matter more than the other?

 

A run is a run is a run. Until the day comes where the umpires allow the leading team to bat in the bottom of the 9th, there is no such thing as a redundant run.

 

Perfectly put.

L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Not True a run is run are not all the same, nore are all hits just hits, Other wise people would not keep stats on game tying or winning hits and runs!

 

Perfectly put.

L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Don't be salty cause I bested you in the FHRC.

 

Lol I'm not salty?

 

What is the FHRC? Kids these days.

GD MVP

GD

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Lol I'm not salty?

 

What is the FHRC? Kids these days.

 

http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/77999607aideh_sm.jpg

 

give me John Jaso

L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/77999607aideh_sm.jpg

 

give me John Jaso

 

I actually chose sugar and spice and everything nice.

burlingtonbandit New Hampshire Fisher Cats

burlingtonbandit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Player A hit a solo home run in a game tied 7-7 in the top of the 12th. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player A represented the winning run.

 

Player B hit a solo home run in a game where his team was leading 7-0 in the 8th. His pitchers went on to allow 6 earned runs in the following half of the inning, but managed to hold the lead the rest of the way. His team went on to win 8-7, and Player B represented the winning run.

 

Why did one home run matter more than the other?

 

A run is a run is a run. Until the day comes where the umpires allow the leading team to bat in the bottom of the 9th, there is no such thing as a redundant run.

 

Sure but a 3 run HR by Josh Donaldson to win the game in the Bot 9th off David Robertson adds more value than a Danny Valencia HR off a position player in the bot 8th in a 10 run game. One of those events adds more value to their team and the degree of difficulty is much much more difficult.

Mac Outlaw College Ball

Mac Outlaw

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Player A hits a game winning home run, his team wins 8-7.

Player A's teammate, Player B, drove in the first six runs of the game.

Somehow Player A's contribution was more "valuable" than Player B's just because it was high leverage and clutch?

I don't think so.

Maahfaace FCL Blue Jays

Maahfaace

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Player A hits a game winning home run, his team wins 8-7.

Player A's teammate, Player B, drove in the first six runs of the game.

Somehow Player A's contribution was more "valuable" than Player B's just because it was high leverage and clutch?

I don't think so.

 

That not really what he was saying

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