2015 Trade Deadline Targets Thread.

[IronLadle]

You probably should.

 

It's a good thing the Rays didn't with Chris Archer

[Sammy225]

We should trade Sanchez for Chi Chi Rodriguez

 

You want to trade him for a f***ing Old Ass Golfer.

[pickoff22]

It's a good thing the Rays didn't with Chris Archer

 

That's actually an interesting comparison.

[GD]

It's a good thing the Rays didn't with Chris Archer

 

Chris Archer AAA: 3.5 SIERA, 4.2 BB/9, 9.5 K/9

Aaron Sanchez AAA: 3.99 SIERA, 4.46 BB/9, 7.07 K/9

 

TOTALLY COMPARABLE

[saskjayfan]

What about the 300 innings of the minors when his walk rates were 5 per 9?

 

he's 22...his last 4 starts his xfip has trended in the right direction. His last start he threw 40 straight fastballs and still had success. His body as a 17 year was still developing physically in some of those 300 innings. People want Samardzjia and his numbers weren't that hot in the minors and his minor league stats were accumulated from the ages of 21 to 25 with his major league stats as a 24 and 25 year old being hot garbage.

 

There are numerous pitchers who had fantastic careers who didn't have great stats prior to the age of 22. Sanchez finally puts together 3 really solid games in 4 starts and the stat nerds are getting nervous and want to kick him down a notch. I get it..those last few starts weren't improvement, they were luck.

[GD]

That's actually an interesting comparison.

 

Nope, not really. Archer walked fewer guys and struck out WAY more guys.

 

Archer was more Archie Bradley than Aaron Sanchez.

[Jimcanuck]

Nope, not really. Archer walked fewer guys and struck out WAY more guys.

 

Archer was more Archie Bradley than Aaron Sanchez.

 

Not true.

 

At 20 yrs old: Archer (A ball) 8.27 K/9, 6.55 BB/9, Sanchez (A ball) 9.66 K/9, 5.08 BB/9

At 21 yrs old: Archer (A ball) 9.83 K/9, 5.45 BB/9, Sanchez (A+ ball) 7.82 K/9, 4.17 BB/9

 

Sanchez actually better.

[pickoff22]

Not true.

 

At 20 yrs old: Archer (A ball) 8.27 K/9, 6.55 BB/9, Sanchez (A ball) 9.66 K/9, 5.08 BB/9

At 21 yrs old: Archer (A ball) 9.83 K/9, 5.45 BB/9, Sanchez (A+ ball) 7.82 K/9, 4.17 BB/9

 

Sanchez actually better.

 

Not sure I would put all of Archer's minor league stats as worse than all of Sanchez', but it is an interesting comp in the sense that Sanchez has always been criticized for his walk rate and Archer's was horrendous. Combine that with the fact that Archer has improved it (while Sanchez hasn't had as much time to do so yet) and it certainly does show that it's possible for Sanchez to silence the critics in the longrun.

[Rusty_Savage]

With buehrle and dickey' contracts up at the end of the year (gives us $31m to work with) should we not get a 4/5 starter by the deadline so we don't give up too much and go big in the offseason? I know it doesn't help now but this offense will still be around next year too

 

Martin's contract will fill the void left by Buehrle.

[GD]

Not sure I would put all of Archer's minor league stats as worse than all of Sanchez', but it is an interesting comp in the sense that Sanchez has always been criticized for his walk rate and Archer's was horrendous. Combine that with the fact that Archer has improved it (while Sanchez hasn't had as much time to do so yet) and it certainly does show that it's possible for Sanchez to silence the critics in the longrun.

 

Archer struck out batters at advanced levels. Sanchez didn't. If Sanchez was striking guys out we'd be thrilled.

[pickoff22]

Archer struck out batters at advanced levels. Sanchez didn't. If Sanchez was striking guys out we'd be thrilled.

 

I get that. But lower his walk rate by as much Archer did while holding everything else constant, and you've got yourself a good pitcher.

[Jimcanuck]

Archer struck out batters at advanced levels. Sanchez didn't. If Sanchez was striking guys out we'd be thrilled.

 

There is no clear separation between the two when age taken into account.

[RealAccountant]

Problem with fIP is that all batted balls are treated the same way. so a line drive and weak grounder have the same impact

 

For me this is a fatal mistake in the stat.

[TheHurl]

Cubs were also telling Archer to stop throwing the slider so much. The Rays got him and encouraged the slider as much as possible. Recently he said that they had to show him how successful it was to convince him to stop shaking it off. Changes in the pitching type, style, something new, that's all most have said Sanchez needs to do to step up closer to his true potential. This org is not going to change Sanchez to something new though.

[IronLadle]

Once Sanchez started challenging hitters he looked like a completely different pitcher, the stuff is there.

[Frenchsoup]

Cubs were also telling Archer to stop throwing the slider so much. The Rays got him and encouraged the slider as much as possible. Recently he said that they had to show him how successful it was to convince him to stop shaking it off. Changes in the pitching type, style, something new, that's all most have said Sanchez needs to do to step up closer to his true potential. This org is not going to change Sanchez to something new though.

 

This is exactly why Sanchez should have been in AAA, to work on that slider and change.

[Captain Adama]

he's 22...his last 4 starts his xfip has trended in the right direction. His last start he threw 40 straight fastballs and still had success. His body as a 17 year was still developing physically in some of those 300 innings. People want Samardzjia and his numbers weren't that hot in the minors and his minor league stats were accumulated from the ages of 21 to 25 with his major league stats as a 24 and 25 year old being hot garbage.

 

There are numerous pitchers who had fantastic careers who didn't have great stats prior to the age of 22. Sanchez finally puts together 3 really solid games in 4 starts and the stat nerds are getting nervous and want to kick him down a notch. I get it..those last few starts weren't improvement, they were luck.

 

I wasn't aware that the process of physical development made your command worse.

 

Secondly, you're strawman of "the stats nerds are getting nervous because Sanchez had 4 good starts because it was all luck" uh no, we have to kick people like you down a notch because you're proclaiming that Sanchez has magically found his control, 4 decent starts is good and all, but the fact remains is that his stats still are terrible and he's gotta keep this up to convince lots of people on the board that you can throw out all his minor league experience where he's shown a lack of ability to throw strikes and miss bats.

[reedjohnsonfan]

he's 22...his last 4 starts his xfip has trended in the right direction. His last start he threw 40 straight fastballs and still had success. His body as a 17 year was still developing physically in some of those 300 innings. People want Samardzjia and his numbers weren't that hot in the minors and his minor league stats were accumulated from the ages of 21 to 25 with his major league stats as a 24 and 25 year old being hot garbage.

 

There are numerous pitchers who had fantastic careers who didn't have great stats prior to the age of 22. Sanchez finally puts together 3 really solid games in 4 starts and the stat nerds are getting nervous and want to kick him down a notch. I get it..those last few starts weren't improvement, they were luck.

 

I am not in the stat nerd camp since some stats get misused, but that being said I'm not sure what you're arguing here. You're saying we shouldn't want Samardzija because his numbers weren't that good in the minors? Nobody cares about that, he's a much better pitcher than Sanchez is right now and the Jays have a window to contend with an obvious need in a starter.

 

Are there idiots who think his last few starts were luck? He's quite clearly pitched better lately but it doesn't mean he's on the same level of a 200 IP reliable pitcher like Samardzija...

[SAAviour]

Latos?

Not the pitcher he used to be, but might be a decent pick up with the Marlins all but done now.

[DuckDuckGose]

I get that. But lower his walk rate by as much Archer did while holding everything else constant, and you've got yourself a good pitcher.

 

If Sanchez maintains his GB rates and walks less batters he can be as successful as Archer w/o the SO #'s. That's a pretty big if but within the realm of possibility.

[DuckDuckGose]

Cubs were also telling Archer to stop throwing the slider so much. The Rays got him and encouraged the slider as much as possible. Recently he said that they had to show him how successful it was to convince him to stop shaking it off. Changes in the pitching type, style, something new, that's all most have said Sanchez needs to do to step up closer to his true potential. This org is not going to change Sanchez to something new though.

 

He's still working on his FB command. It's hard to mix in other pitches when you can't count on your FB for a strike when you need it.

[Jimcanuck]

With the Jays offense do they need to overpay for a high end starter? What about guys like Haren, Cashner, Hughes that could be had for a lot less?

 

E: or Leake from the Reds ~60% GB%

[DuckDuckGose]

Latos?

Not the pitcher he used to be, but might be a decent pick up with the Marlins all but done now.

 

Definitely a good target.

[Hipfan]

Shields and Kimbrel; it's time for the Padres to blow up their off-season experiment as it's clearly not working out and they need to replenish their system.

[L54]

Shields, Quintana, Shark, Kazmir.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Oh man, I'd love Shields. And Kimbrel. Would that cost us EVERY single good propect? Hoffman, Norris, Boyd +? The Jays have really started to draft well, to the point where I have confidence in our org to replenish our farm after such a trade. It'd take 2-3 years but man, we'd have a good shot of playoffs for at least 2 years.

[Dick_Pole]

Can injured players be traded? Stroman is fantastic, which is why the return would be huge. If the Jays are going to be moving top flight talent to win now, can expect an injured Stroman to be in play....

 

What? If AA ever traded Stroman for a rental player he should be immediately tarred and feathered, blindfolded and tied to the back of a train headed for Ellesmere Island. The only conceivable way that Stroman gets traded without AA being sent away is for an equivalent young talent with 3+ years of control coming back the other way imo.

 

I just don't understand your line of thinking. You're dead set on Sanchez improving with marginal evidence, which is fair you're entitled to your opinion. But if you think Sanchez should improve from a guy with an unsustainable K:BB ratio to, say, a decent #3 starter, then you should also be in favour of Stroman improving from a #2 pitcher that he has exhibited so far to the next Pedro Martinez and claim he is absolutely untouchable. Because it is just as likely Stroman will improve from his current performance level as it is Sanchez will improve from his.

[Jimcanuck]

What? If AA ever traded Stroman for a rental player he should be immediately tarred and feathered, blindfolded and tied to the back of a train headed for Ellesmere Island. The only conceivable way that Stroman gets traded without AA being sent away is for an equivalent young talent with 3+ years of control coming back the other way imo.

 

I just don't understand your line of thinking. You're dead set on Sanchez improving with marginal evidence, which is fair you're entitled to your opinion. But if you think Sanchez should improve from a guy with an unsustainable K:BB ratio to, say, a decent #3 starter, then you should also be in favour of Stroman improving from a #2 pitcher that he has exhibited so far to the next Pedro Martinez and claim he is absolutely untouchable. Because it is just as likely Stroman will improve from his current performance level as it is Sanchez will improve from his.

 

Where did i say stroman for a rental? Just pointing out that if the objective is to win now, moving an injured player like Stroman who is unlikely to contribute this year, for the missing pieces would be in play. I didnt advocate for it.

[HERPDERP]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 55s55 seconds ago

Per @JSalisburyCSN, #Phillies’ Hamels says he is open to all teams, including #Blue Jays and #Astros. Jim’s story: http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-open-minded-all-potential-trade-destinations?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter …

[RealAccountant]

^ do we really want him if he already declined a trade here??