Matt Boyd stud thread

[Boxcar]

you called him "one of the worst pitchers in baseball" a few posts ago. sort of sounds like you might be giving up on him.

 

What he is currently and what he could be in the future are obviously two different things. How is that not obvious?

[Boxcar]

there are some guys who do just enough to drive hitters absolutely nuts. Maddux was another one. didn't throw hard, but by changing speeds and making the hitter uncomfortable he made it to the hall of fame, throwing about the same style as MB, but GM was a little more accurate and could carve up hitters.

 

And even though Maddux didn't strike out guys like Johnson or Martinez, I'd easily pick him for my all time top 5 rotation.

[Daniel Labude]

Halladay got sent down to A ball to rebuild his entire deliver. he wasn't the Halladay that he later become until he was broken down and started over.

 

Didnt Sanchez do that when he got to AAA last year...reulted in better control the last 2 season....and beyond?

[saskjayfan]

MB is an exception to most of those rules. there are not many outliers in the numbers, but he is one of them

 

yeah..there's no way a kid who throws as hard and with as much movement as Sanchez does could be an outlier. He has a 60% ground ball rate when the league average is 44%..hmm...that does seem materially different. He has an 18% line drive rate when the league average is 21%....that again does seem like a good thing.

 

Those stats scream outlier and doesn't fit within the norm and he hasn't finished developing. Sanchez isn't today what he will be 2 months or 2 years from now. You have to believe in evolution and not assume god made the world in 7 days to understand Sanchez.

 

People like who think Sanchez "MAY" have a future as a very good starter realize he needs to improve areas of his game. We just scoff at the nerds like boxcar who think is garbage and incapable of improving . As if Boxcar could ever explain what Sanchez would have to do to improve his changeup.

 

I'm not near as arrogant as Sanchez' detractors. I'm not convinced he will be great, but he does some unique things that are undeniable. I'm just not convinced he will be crap

[JFD]

What he is currently and what he could be in the future are obviously two different things. How is that not obvious?

 

how is he going to become not "the worst pitcher in baseball" if they don't give him rope to improve?

[Boxcar]

yeah..there's no way a kid who throws as hard and with as much movement as Sanchez does could be an outlier. He has a 60% ground ball rate when the league average is 44%..hmm...that does seem materially different. He has an 18% line drive rate when the league average is 21%....that again does seem like a good thing.

 

Those stats scream outlier and doesn't fit within the norm and he hasn't finished developing. Sanchez isn't today what he will be 2 months or 2 years from now. You have to believe in evolution and not assume god made the world in 7 days to understand Sanchez.

 

People like who think Sanchez "MAY" have a future as a very good starter realize he needs to improve areas of his game. We just scoff at the nerds like boxcar who think is garbage and incapable of improving . As if Boxcar could ever explain what Sanchez would have to do to improve his changeup.

 

I'm not near as arrogant as Sanchez' detractors. I'm not convinced he will be great, but he does some unique things that are undeniable. I'm just not convinced he will be crap

 

Currently he is garbage. Or to be more objective, not very good and in fact pretty bad.

 

I've made no claims that he will always be bad, just that I'd rather trade him than bank on it.

[Boxcar]

how is he going to become not "the worst pitcher in baseball" if they don't give him rope to improve?

 

There's this magical place called AAA.

[FrozenRopes]

Sanchez and Norris will both be great starters or relievers, but not with these clowns steering the bus.

 

Boyd does not have MLB stuff. He needs to 'Buerhle Up'

[JFD]

There's this magical place called AAA.

 

so you'd rather him in AAA over a guy that throws 91mph meatballs and hanging curve balls on a regular basis? why does Sanchez have to go to AAA to improve? he is keeping his head above water in the majors. what would you want him work on in AAA that he can't do in the majors?

[nmrch]

There's this magical place called AAA.

 

Some battles cannot be won my friend, there is literally no argument or set of arguments you can come up with that will change the minds of people who think this highly of Sanchez.

[Macsattack]

Gone a little off topic from the two demotions. When the bullpen tosses 9IP there is going to be some collateral damage. Really the only option is to demote your most expendable assets and call up some fresh arms its a long season and the team needs to be put in the best position to win tomorrow. If a mistake were made with Boyd it was the call-up to begin with. Most AAA rosters are positioned with your Depth pieces to fill in for injuries and the jays have some AAA guys with MLB experience in Wolf, Francis, and Doubront. Make no mistake guys like these aren't going to dazzle if they can give you six innings with 3 or 4 runs allowed that might be considered success but they have enough experience to give you 5 innings without imploding which put the team as a whole in a more favorable position.

[saskjayfan]

Currently he is garbage. Or to be more objective, not very good and in fact pretty bad.

 

I've made no claims that he will always be bad, just that I'd rather trade him than bank on it.

 

His last start he through 40 straight fastballs and the opposition could not hit him. We're not talking Bartolo colon fastballs a guy who has incredible command lives on the edges...we're talking about basically aiming for the middle of the plate and letting the natural movement carry him through innings. I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's not a lot of starters who can throw the same pitch 40 times in a row and have success. Even his last 4 starts his xfip has been decent. Is this improvement? Maybe. I wouldn't call his body of work over the last 4 starts garbage even if I was just looking at the stats and hadn't seen him pitch.

[Macsattack]

His last start he through 40 straight fastballs and the opposition could not hit him. We're not talking Bartolo colon fastballs a guy who has incredible command lives on the edges...we're talking about basically aiming for the middle of the plate and letting the natural movement carry him through innings. I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's not a lot of starters who can throw the same pitch 40 times in a row and have success. Even his last 4 starts his xfip has been decent. Is this improvement? Maybe. I wouldn't call his body of work over the last 4 starts garbage even if I was just looking at the stats and hadn't seen him pitch.

 

One of the interesting things as we get more data in all pro-sports on the advanced stats side is how do you integrate the eye test in with the numbers. Sinkerballers in baseball would be a really interesting study as part of them being successful is inducing contact(weak contact) which goes against statistical based models favoring maximizing strikeouts. When a strikeout guy is dealing half the guys they face might not even put it in play and on the other hand a groundball guy might generate 75% or more groundball's. There's no right answer as to what is the best and hence why we're 7 pages deep on these tangents.

[SAAviour]

My couch watching trained, yet untrained I'm not a scout eye, saw Matt Boyd pitch 5 days ago and I thought his stuff looked very ordinary.

Today what I believed was confirmed. Should have left him in the minors and traded him. Matt Boyd looks very ordinary...but really wtf do I know.

[ElNik2013]

I like Boyd, but wasn't for calling him up. Norris had a good ERA and was demoted for other reasons. It seems that some here will knock Sanchez even when this has little to do with him. This has happened in other threadz and it's obvious some will hate on the guy. It's the way many come accross.

 

There are definitely some homers who don't see the young guys' problems, but there's definitely some guys who just dislike him.

 

Fact is, that he's well regarded by the main prospect followers. I think he was included recently in some top 25 players under 25 list by one of these sites that follow 'spects.

 

Team just used its entire BP, they definitely had to make some moves to get some arms up, doesn't mean they're giving up on Boyd.

 

Anyway, to each his own.

[flafson]

Can anyone confirm that he wasn't tipping his pitches or anything? To me and pitch track, he was hitting a lot of strikes on the edges, so it seemed really weird the amount of hits he was giving without recording an out.

[GD]

oh yay another jerk off to your spreadsheet debate

 

Gotta love it when like half the board can't actually understand what's being said and debated so they create their own versions of what the people they're arguing with are saying

[glory]

Boyd had to be sent down. He forced the team to destroy its pen for a game and they need fresh arms. Boyd and Redmond were the only options to demote.

 

As I said before, should have called up Norris instead.

[KingKat]

But, it's not just the rookies.

It's also the veterans. A guy gets lit up once, and they send him packing.

 

The Jesse Chavez treatment.

[Smokey]

What the f*** is going on in here? 6 years ago fatty promised us a young power rotation with swing and miss stuff and now 6 years later and 3 years after going all-in and you guys are busy arguing about which crappy prospect deserves a longer leash? Who f***ing cares? Clearly none of them are ready and as far as I've seen, none of them has a particularly high enough ceiling to be worth arguing over. As it stands the team doesn't have one front of the rotation starter, a struggling Hutch, a washed up Dickey and bunch of crap in 4-5 spots. So how does giving a longer leash to anyone suppose to change any of that??

 

ban worthy just so I dont have to read it.

 

Mind if I refer to you as Costanza from now on? Cause I really can't stand ya!

[Atothe]

What the f*** is going on in here? 6 years ago fatty promised us a young power rotation with swing and miss stuff and now 6 years later and 3 years after going all-in and you guys are busy arguing about which crappy prospect deserves a longer leash? Who f***ing cares? Clearly none of them are ready and as far as I've seen, none of them has a particularly high enough ceiling to be worth arguing over. As it stands the team doesn't have one front of the rotation starter, a struggling Hutch, a washed up Dickey and bunch of crap in 4-5 spots. So how does giving a longer leash to anyone suppose to change any of that??

 

 

 

Mind if I refer to you as Costanza from now on? Cause I really can't stand ya!

 

Norris is a crappy prospect?

[Smokey]

Norris is a crappy prospect?

 

Not really but he does have a fairly limited ceiling and was clearly not ready.

 

In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions could get Alex out of this mess. He does have a tendency to overreact to SSS but When it comes to the quality of this rotation, he has bigger problems than that.

[BabbaGanoush]

I'm not going to take the bait o2. I'm being good.

 

Wow you are seriously one of the worst posters I have ever seen.

[King]

Wow you are seriously one of the worst posters I have ever seen.

 

At least he didn't abandon his BBDL team.

[HERPDERP]

Not really but he does have a fairly limited ceiling and was clearly not ready.

 

In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions could get Alex out of this mess. He does have a tendency to overreact to SSS but When it comes to the quality of this rotation, he has bigger problems than that.

 

How does one get ranked #18 in all of baseball and not have a high ceiling?

[Smokey]

How does one get ranked #18 in all of baseball and not have a high ceiling?

 

Not sure, maybe the good looks? Seriously though, I actually think he has a high chance of making the rotation sometime soon but I don't see him as a front of the rotation arm and definitely not someone who should be counted on this season.

[KingKat]

How does one get ranked #18 in all of baseball and not have a high ceiling?

 

A number two upside is more than enough to justify that ranking. Aces don't grow on trees.

[Atothe]

Not sure, maybe the good looks? Seriously though, I actually think he has a high chance of making the rotation sometime soon but I don't see him as a front of the rotation arm and definitely not someone who should be counted on this season.

 

Its one thing to say he won't reach that ceiling but another to say he doesn't have the stuff. He clearly has the stuff

[Smokey]

Its one thing to say he won't reach that ceiling but another to say he doesn't have the stuff. He clearly has the stuff

 

In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions could get Alex out of this mess.

[Atothe]

In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions could get Alex out of this mess.

 

Is that written in stone somewhere?