Best offense in baseball, last place in the AL East

[flafson]

He's had success in the past.

 

He was leading the league in home runs allowed when he was a starter last year, i'm pretty sure Rogers Center is the wrong place for him to start.

[BigCecil]

He's had success in the past.

 

I haven't looked it up yet but heard Brewers broadcast that said his numbers as a reliever 2014 were dramatically better than as a starter.

[Smokey]

Do you think the Cards GM and the Dodgers GM are terrible too because Wainwright and Ryu/McCarthy got hurt?

 

LMAO

 

So now we're comparing the Cards and the Dodgers GM's to a guy who hasn't been able to assemble a competitive roster in 6 years??? GTFO

 

Storman

Hutch

Dickey

Buehrle

Norris/Sanchez/Estrada

 

That's the rotation AA put together. Care to tell me which rotations in baseball you consider to be good enough? Which ones didn't rely on unproven arms or aging veterans? Which ones had ample depth to deal with major injuries to their best pitchers? I'd love to see your list.

 

Trust me, you wouldn't. The fact is that there are plenty of team with better rotations than that. Stroman is the only star in that rotation and he's far from a proven front-line starter considering the 130 total MLB innings under his belt. Besides, Alex told us that his goal was not just to contend, but put together a team "that can get to the World Series and win it, and then sustain it year-in and year-out"... Does that look like a rotation that's going to win any championships to you???

[KingKat]

He was leading the league in home runs allowed when he was a starter last year, i'm pretty sure Rogers Center is the wrong place for him to start.

 

I'm well aware of that and no he's not an ideal fit for the Rogers Centre but he still can be effective overall and provide an improvement. It's ridiculous given how bad the pitching has been to look at Estrada's warts and reject him outright. Estrada has had very good stretches as a starter and he can have them again even with his flyball tendencies. Will he give up more homeruns that you'd like? Probably. Is he a perfect pitcher? No but at this point perfect is too much to ask for. If he can just keep them in the game for six innings, that's a godsend.

[Brownie19]

No because they have other good arms and we don't lol. Stroman has started how many games? Has not got through an entire season, the rest are average to below average. That is hardly a good rotation. Again would require for everythign to go right, which it rarely does.

 

The Cards have Wacha, Lynn besides wainwright.....either of those are better then anyone in our rotation. You're not exactly making your point well.

 

The dodgers have kershaw and Greinke.....did you even think before posting? Those teams have exactly what i am talking about, depth in the rotation.

 

I love how you downplay Stroman because he's never gotten through a full season - and then throw out how Wacha is great and is better than anyone in our rotation.

 

The Dodgers have Scott Baker and Carlos Frías in their rotation right now. Is that the type of depth you're talking about? Listing 2 great pitchers and then referring to them as "depth" makes me wonder if you know what the definition of depth is...

[Brownie19]

 

Trust me, you wouldn't. QUOTE]

 

Actually - I would. I didn't say they had the best rotation in baseball. But a top 5-8 rotation in the AL would make us a playoff team. I don't think it's unrealistic to have projected that kind of result with the rotation pre-stroman injury.

[Brownie19]

He was leading the league in home runs allowed when he was a starter last year, i'm pretty sure Rogers Center is the wrong place for him to start.

 

It's not like he was pitching in Petco last year....Brewer's stadium is a launching pad too.

[IBTrini]

I have a feeling that the Jays are going to be good this year, and that the pitching will recover from this horrid start.

No because they have other good arms and we don't lol. Stroman has started how many games? Has not got through an entire season, the rest are average to below average. That is hardly a good rotation. Again would require for everythign to go right, which it rarely does.

Hmmmmmm, is it uncomfortable straddling that fence all the time? On the one hand you are attacking Anthopoulos for his lack of SP depth yet somehow you think this same horrid rotation will recover and the team will do well?

 

Also, Stroman was a huge loss so the depth automatically got thinned out even more. It like thinking you should blame Anthopoulos for not having a "Bautista" or an "Encarnacion" type person sitting around as depth. If your strong type individual goes down it will most probably affect the team negatively cuz replacement players are never going to give you the production of your elite players. I am not saying I was happy with the way the rotation was set up initially but it was really bad luck to lose Stroman for the entire season. The Jays offense looks good but the loss of Bautista or Encarnacion will have a negative trickle down effect. Maybe not as noticeable as the starting rotation cuz it doesn't contain as many high calibre players as the offense has.

[ScientificReason]

I love how you downplay Stroman because he's never gotten through a full season - and then throw out how Wacha is great and is better than anyone in our rotation.

 

The Dodgers have Scott Baker and Carlos Frías in their rotation right now. Is that the type of depth you're talking about? Listing 2 great pitchers and then referring to them as "depth" makes me wonder if you know what the definition of depth is...

 

I never downplayed stroman, it is a fact he has never pitched a full season. The stats speak volumes look at the dodgers and and cards rotations. even with one injury they have had good pitching, ours is in shambles...You said dodgers, they have grenke and Kershaw..so what exactly was your point? All you did was prove mine.

[ScientificReason]

Hmmmmmm, is it uncomfortable straddling that fence all the time? On the one hand you are attacking Anthopoulos for his lack of SP depth yet somehow you think this same horrid rotation will recover and the team will do well?

 

Also, Stroman was a huge loss so the depth automatically got thinned out even more. It like thinking you should blame Anthopoulos for not having a "Bautista" or an "Encarnacion" type person sitting around as depth. If your strong type individual goes down it will most probably affect the team negatively cuz replacement players are never going to give you the production of your elite players. I am not saying I was happy with the way the rotation was set up initially but it was really bad luck to lose Stroman for the entire season. The Jays offense looks good but the loss of Bautista or Encarnacion will have a negative trickle down effect. Maybe not as noticeable as the starting rotation cuz it doesn't contain as many high calibre players as the offense has.

 

You quoted 2 different people...........

[IBTrini]

There is no way this pitching staff can be fixed from within.

I agree with this however the alternative will be to trade (hopefully from the farm only) and not anyone important on the current roster. If this happens there will be such an outcry it will be most amusing (and frustrating at the same time) to see the reactions. Anthopoulos is not a magician so he will not be getting any top quality arm for nothing or for spare parts. Also, saying it would have been cheaper in the offseason rather than now is also being a bit naive - it will have cost a lot then as well. Let's see if he does anything going forward without the constant put-downs cuz that job isn't as easy as it looks.

[IBTrini]

You quoted 2 different people...........

Sorry, my fault. I really thought it was the same individual. I apologise.

[Smokey]

Actually - I would. I didn't say they had the best rotation in baseball. But a top 5-8 rotation in the AL would make us a playoff team. I don't think it's unrealistic to have projected that kind of result with the rotation pre-stroman injury.

 

Possibly. I actually think this team still has a decent chance at the playoffs with the offense carrying them most of the way. The problem however with the way this team's built is that they're not able to put up many runs once they're going up against the other teams best pitchers like David Price and the pitching won't be able to keep us in those close games. So even if they somehow manage to make it into the playoffs, they're still nothing but pretenders with a rotation like that.

[Brownie19]

I never downplayed stroman, it is a fact he has never pitched a full season. The stats speak volumes look at the dodgers and and cards rotations. even with one injury they have had good pitching, ours is in shambles...You said dodgers, they have grenke and Kershaw..so what exactly was your point? All you did was prove mine.

 

I'm amazing how you don't even get my point...

 

How many full season's has Wacha pitched?

[Brownie19]

Possibly. I actually think this team still has a decent chance at the playoffs with the offense carrying them most of the way. The problem however with the way this team's built is that they're not able to put up many runs once they're going up against the other teams best pitchers like David Price and the pitching won't be able to keep us in those close games. So even if they somehow manage to make it into the playoffs, they're still nothing but pretenders with a rotation like that.

 

While you're crafting your list of better rotations, why don't you learn me on that teams that ARE built to put up runs when they're up against the other teams best pitchers like David Price.

[Brownie19]

Sorry, my fault. I really thought it was the same individual. I apologise.

 

Aren't they the same person?

[Smokey]

While you're crafting your list of better rotations,

 

 

Why the f*** would I craft you a list when you've already admitted that they belong in the middle of the pack??

 

why don't you learn me on that teams that ARE built to put up runs when they're up against the other teams best pitchers like David Price.

 

The point clearly flew over your head... Playoff games are generally tight and low scoring and this team will be behind the eight ball every time they go up against an elite pitcher.

[Governator]

This team has lead the league several times in runs scored over the past decade but pitching has always done them in. Same s*** different season, especially with Stroman out of the picture. I know he wouldn't be the Saviour but the outlook would at least be different.

 

Anyway that's a non-story now. We're stuck banking on a a 40yr old knuckleballer and a 36 yr old slowball pitcher to go 7 innings / game. They are underachieving no doubt but their careers are dwindling down. Buehrle can't get away with missing spots throwing 83mph fastballs as there's not a team in baseball that can't tee him up right now. Same thing with Dickey, if he can't control the knuckleball it's another walk walk dinger on his 80mph fastball.

 

The only good thing right now is that things can't be any worse than it is, we're 2 games below .500 and Estrada can't possibly pitch fewer innings than Norris did.

[Brownie19]

Why the f*** would I craft you a list when you've already admitted that they belong in the middle of the pack??

 

 

 

The point clearly flew over your head... Playoff games are generally tight and low scoring and this team will be behind the eight ball every time they go up against an elite pitcher.

 

I just want to record which rotations you think are better than the one AA constructed this year (prior to the Stro injury).

 

Also - what elite pitcher took KC to the final last year?

[NorthOf49]

I just want to record which rotations you think are better than the one AA constructed this year (prior to the Stro injury).

 

Also - what elite pitcher took KC to the final last year?

James Shields! The Royals rotation was pretty good last year and was helped greatly by their defence.

[Brownie19]

James Shields! The Royals rotation was pretty good last year and was helped greatly by their defence.

 

Correct North - Shields and his 6.12 playoff ERA...

 

The Royals rotation was Shields, Ventura, Guthrie, Vargas and Danny Duffy (who didn't start in the playoffs). Stroman was better than Shields last year, Ventura and Duffy were rookies, Vargas is a soft tossing lefty and Guthrie is a declining vet...

[Smokey]

The Royals had an elite BP and they had everything go their way during an extremely unlikely hot streak that saw them win 8 straight playoff games and they still couldn't win it all because of their inferior starting pitching vs The Giants. Great example by the way, almost as good as the "Cards GM and the Dodgers GM" comp.

[Nox]

The Jays rotation went from (True talent WARz):

 

3.5

2

2

2

0

 

to

 

2

2

2

0

0

 

It was slightly below average before Stroman's injury to f***ing heinous. Subbing replacement level shitplugs in does not constitute depth in any way. The roster construction has been an abomination in AA's tenure.

 

Where did the team's "depth go"?

 

The Marlins and Mets deals obviously. Useful depth guys were shipped off and $ that could have been used to acquire a reasonable #4 starter or two was set on fire.

 

That fall was about as bad a period a GM running a Toronto sports team has ever had.

[HERPDERP]

The Jays rotation went from (True talent WARz):

 

3.5

2

2

2

0

 

to

 

2

2

2

0

0

 

It was slightly below average before Stroman's injury to f***ing heinous. Subbing replacement level shitplugs in does not constitute depth in any way. The roster construction has been an abomination in AA's tenure.

 

Where did the team's "depth go"?

 

The Marlins and Mets deals obviously. Useful depth guys were shipped off and $ that could have been used to acquire a reasonable #4 starter or two was set on fire.

 

That fall was about as bad a period a GM running a Toronto sports team has ever had.

 

I can get behind keeping Alvarez and him having a spot in the rotation, but Sanchez/Norris are pretty much in the same boat as Syndergaard in that they are unproven and Syndergaard can be just as bad as Norris.

[Nox]

I can get behind keeping Alvarez and him having a spot in the rotation, but Sanchez/Norris are pretty much in the same boat as Syndergaard in that they are unproven and Syndergaard can be just as bad as Norris.

 

Descalfini is the type of guy good teams plug into the back of their rotation when better guys (Stroman) get hurt.

[GD]

Buehrle 2

Dickey 2

Estrada 1

Boyd 1

???Norrispls 0 (assuming 0 since i just want anyone other than Sanchez)

 

Probably the best outlook rn.

[Brownie19]

The Jays rotation went from (True talent WARz):

 

3.5

2

2

2

0

 

to

 

2

2

2

0

0

 

It was slightly below average before Stroman's injury to f***ing heinous. Subbing replacement level shitplugs in does not constitute depth in any way. The roster construction has been an abomination in AA's tenure.

 

Where did the team's "depth go"?

 

The Marlins and Mets deals obviously. Useful depth guys were shipped off and $ that could have been used to acquire a reasonable #4 starter or two was set on fire.

 

That fall was about as bad a period a GM running a Toronto sports team has ever had.

 

What team doesn't have that happen when their best pitcher gets hurt???

[Zaun of the Dead]

Nobody thought pitching would be this bad

 

EVERYONE thought the pitching would be this bad. Our pitching has been straight garbage for god knows how long now and literally every offseason we say PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING and every f***ing offseason AA / Beeston are like naaaaaah we good.

[Nox]

What team doesn't have that happen when their best pitcher gets hurt???

 

All teams obviously get worse when their best pitcher gets hurt.

 

Most teams have someone who, while not a superstar, can produce above replacement level innings when needed. The Jays do not have that.

[Brownie19]

All teams obviously get worse when their best pitcher gets hurt.

 

Most teams have someone who, while not a superstar, can produce above replacement level innings when needed. The Jays do not have that.

 

Most teams don't have 2 WAR guys sitting around waiting for injuries. That simply isn't true (outside of Washington). Typically they have a vet who's been good in the past who cant quite crack the rotation, or they have a young prospect who's almost ready to make the jump to the majors. The Jays have Estrada's put up 1.7 WAR in 2013 and 3.2 in 2012 and they have Norris and Sanchez who fit the bill as the top prospects who are almost ready (theoretically).

 

The Dodgers spent a zillion dollars on payroll this year and they are using Scott Baker. They Jays are no different that the VAST majority of MLB teams.