The Bullpen

[GD]

My example was a bit off. They didn't get an extra year of control on Hutch by keeping him down in 2013, but they did keep him from being super 2. Off the DL in early August 2013 but kept on optional assignment the rest of that year and he ended up just short of the super 2 service time cutoff. If they had called him back up in Sept 2013 he would've accrued more service time and been in arb1 this season.

 

Illustrates the same point though.

 

Yeah, it's still a good point. Gives a new perspective on the service time thing. Let's not hope they get injured now though lol

[Deadpool]

Yeah, it's still a good point. Gives a new perspective on the service time thing. Let's not hope they get injured now though lol

 

My concern isn't really about service time, so much as it is about the impact on their development as starters.

[Jimcanuck]

remember AA is holding Navvy in reserve, to be traded when there is a BP need

 

or a trade of prospects for a SP with Sanchez going to BP

[bronson44]

My concern isn't really about service time, so much as it is about the impact on their development as starters.

 

Who's to say this isn't a better way to develop starters? Wet their feet in short bursts out of the bullpen for a while then send them down to stretch out and bring them back to an environment that's not as overwhelming. It worked with Stroman.

[abola2121]

At least we know now who's getting sent down when Saunders returns.

[RIPEXPOS]

It is what we thought it was... An Achilles heal.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Whoa whoa chickia ! Let's see the starters go 6-7 innings deep in games before we cast despair on the pen! Chillax people!

[Governator]

So what realistic options do the Jays have to make an improvement to the pen?

 

If we're sticking with internal options, I sort of think swapping Hendriks with Sanchez is the right move, even if you're encouraged by Sanchez' last start.

 

Hendriks xFIP is sitting at 1.89, his K/9 is at an unsustainable 12.27 but he's clearly turning a page and getting big leaguers out, finally. I believe that's been his biggest hurdle, confidence on the mound.

 

I would also send Castro down to AAA and bring up Delabar who seems to have stopped giving up walks of late and go with a closer by committee for now until Sanchez becomes stud like again.

 

Would you cry if we lost Hoffman for Pabelbon? What if he makes the difference of winning this season or not? What if they signed Rafael Soriano to help stop some bleeding? It's not our money afterall and apparently we have a little bit still?

[Brownie19]

So what realistic options do the Jays have to make an improvement to the pen?

 

If we're sticking with internal options, I sort of think swapping Hendriks with Sanchez is the right move, even if you're encouraged by Sanchez' last start.

 

Hendriks xFIP is sitting at 1.89, his K/9 is at an unsustainable 12.27 but he's clearly turning a page and getting big leaguers out, finally. I believe that's been his biggest hurdle, confidence on the mound.

 

I would also send Castro down to AAA and bring up Delabar who seems to have stopped giving up walks of late and go with a closer by committee for now until Sanchez becomes stud like again.

 

Would you cry if we lost Hoffman for Pabelbon? What if he makes the difference of winning this season or not? What if they signed Rafael Soriano to help stop some bleeding? It's not our money afterall and apparently we have a little bit still?

 

I'd be happy with all of those suggests (although Castro likely should go to AA?) except giving up Hoffman for Papelbon......that's just not a good idea at all. I really like what I've seen out of Hendriks. Either give him a spot in the rotation or get him into some higher leverage situations.

[Angrioter]

Cecil to Castro

"I don’t like people telling me it’s all right, because it’s not all right, I’m not going to go hug or anything like that, but after (Monday) night’s game I went up to him in the locker-room, gave him a pat on the shoulder, and I said, ‘You all right man, you all right?’" said Cecil. "He kind of looked at me, kind of put his head back down, and I grabbed his chin and said, ‘Hey, head up. Keep your head up.’ He understood what I was saying. …

 

"He’s got unbelievable stuff, for a young guy he doesn’t see that, all he sees is results and I was the same way when I was younger. Now, if I have a bad game, the game’s over, it rolls off my back, I’ve got to be ready to go out the next day. For him, I’m sure he’s still dwelling about his last couple of outings. That’s a learning process that comes with time. He’s going to be good, for sure."

[KingKat]

Cecil to Castro

"I don’t like people telling me it’s all right, because it’s not all right, I’m not going to go hug or anything like that, but after (Monday) night’s game I went up to him in the locker-room, gave him a pat on the shoulder, and I said, ‘You all right man, you all right?’" said Cecil. "He kind of looked at me, kind of put his head back down, and I grabbed his chin and said, ‘Hey, head up. Keep your head up.’ He understood what I was saying. …

 

"He’s got unbelievable stuff, for a young guy he doesn’t see that, all he sees is results and I was the same way when I was younger. Now, if I have a bad game, the game’s over, it rolls off my back, I’ve got to be ready to go out the next day. For him, I’m sure he’s still dwelling about his last couple of outings. That’s a learning process that comes with time. He’s going to be good, for sure."

 

Wow Cecil really sounds like a class act.

[TDotttt2005]

But...but...Wilner says the pen will be ok.

[HERPDERP]

So what realistic options do the Jays have to make an improvement to the pen?

 

If we're sticking with internal options, I sort of think swapping Hendriks with Sanchez is the right move, even if you're encouraged by Sanchez' last start.

 

Hendriks xFIP is sitting at 1.89, his K/9 is at an unsustainable 12.27 but he's clearly turning a page and getting big leaguers out, finally. I believe that's been his biggest hurdle, confidence on the mound.

 

I would also send Castro down to AAA and bring up Delabar who seems to have stopped giving up walks of late and go with a closer by committee for now until Sanchez becomes stud like again.

 

Would you cry if we lost Hoffman for Pabelbon? What if he makes the difference of winning this season or not? What if they signed Rafael Soriano to help stop some bleeding? It's not our money afterall and apparently we have a little bit still?

 

Hoffman for Papelbon is such a lop sided deal. I would never do that.

[Governator]

Hoffman for Papelbon is such a lop sided deal. I would never do that.

 

Well likely not straight up, it was just hypothetical trade that I'm assuming Phillies are asking for in return. In desperate times and job security on the line maybe AA does something like that. Not saying I would.

[Laika]

Well likely not straight up, it was just hypothetical trade that I'm assuming Phillies are asking for in return. In desperate times and job security on the line maybe AA does something like that. Not saying I would.

 

Philly would give Papelbon to any team that would take his contract, lol.

[bendera3]

Philly would give Papelbon to any team that would take his contract, lol.

 

Unless the Phillies pay for all of Papelbon they aren't getting anything for him. If they pay 75% they might get like a C prospect for him.

[Laika]

Unless the Phillies pay for all of Papelbon they aren't getting anything for him. If they pay 75% they might get like a C prospect for him.

 

I might roll your statement back a little bit but you're pretty much right. It's the vesting option for 2016 that's the killer. He gets $13M guaranteed if he finishes 48 games this year.

 

Some team might be wiling to pay around $15M total for him, but that's with giving up nothing, essentially his FA value (comp Balfour, K-Rod, and Romo). So at a minimum I think Philly needs to eat about $11M (including what they've already paid him this year) to get rid of him, and that's just to save money, so they wouldn't get any players back.

[KingKat]

So maybe, just maybe, Delabar is not a team player. Maybe he's not the kind of guy who pats Miguel Castro on the back despite losing a job to him. Heck maybe for all we know, he's a huge s*** head and a terrible clubhouse guy and the Jays just plain don't want him on the team. I could live with that assessment. I mean it's not like I'm around him and would know any different but being toxic (if that's the issue) is not an excuse for wasting an effective, healthy, veteran reliever in Buffalo. If you're not going to use him than just trade him away already. Lots of teams could use him. The return on him might not be amazing but it's better than punishing both him and the team by blue balling him like this.

[Angrioter]

So maybe, just maybe, Delabar is not a team player. Maybe he's not the kind of guy who pats Miguel Castro on the back despite losing a job to him. Heck maybe for all we know, he's a huge s*** head and a terrible clubhouse guy and the Jays just plain don't want him on the team. I could live with that assessment. I mean it's not like I'm around him and would know any different but being toxic (if that's the issue) is not an excuse for wasting an effective, healthy, veteran reliever in Buffalo. If you're not going to use him than just trade him away already. Lots of teams could use him. The return on him might not be amazing but it's better than punishing both him and the team by blue balling him like this.

 

I don't think so -- minute 6:20-->

[Laika]

So maybe, just maybe, Delabar is not a team player. Maybe he's not the kind of guy who pats Miguel Castro on the back despite losing a job to him. Heck maybe for all we know, he's a huge s*** head and a terrible clubhouse guy and the Jays just plain don't want him on the team. I could live with that assessment. I mean it's not like I'm around him and would know any different but being toxic (if that's the issue) is not an excuse for wasting an effective, healthy, veteran reliever in Buffalo. If you're not going to use him than just trade him away already. Lots of teams could use him. The return on him might not be amazing but it's better than punishing both him and the team by blue balling him like this.

 

It's about talent. Delabar was a sack of s*** in 2014 and until his K rate is up around 10+ per 9 innings in Buffalo, he's probably still that sack of s***.

[KingKat]

It's about talent. Delabar was a sack of s*** in 2014 and until his K rate is up around 10+ per 9 innings in Buffalo, he's probably still that sack of s***.

 

Could be. I certainly wasn't sold on him going into spring training but reportedly he wasn't told to work on anything in AAA and that's what raises an eyebrow for me. He looked good in spring training. If the team still wasn't sold on him then why not tell him what they want him to work on? Seems counter-productive not to say anything.

[Dick_Pole]

One bad game at Fenway and people are resurrecting this thread and thinking about trades for Papelbon. Any bullpen issues can be solved with internal options at this point. Let's focus on getting the starters out of the 6th inning and under 5 FIP before crucifying the bullpen. Unless Papelbon plans on converting back to a starter bringing him to Toronto will not remotely plug the leak that's been plaguing this team.

[Laika]

Could be. I certainly wasn't sold on him going into spring training but reportedly he wasn't told to work on anything in AAA and that's what raises an eyebrow for me. He looked good in spring training. If the team still wasn't sold on him then why not tell him what they want him to work on? Seems counter-productive not to say anything.

 

I dunno, maybe it's just hard to euphemism up "uhhh.... be better and throw really hard again, plz".

[Laika]

One bad game at Fenway and people are resurrecting this thread and thinking about trades for Papelbon. Any bullpen issues can be solved with internal options at this point. Let's focus on getting the starters out of the 6th inning and under 5 FIP before crucifying the bullpen. Unless Papelbon plans on converting back to a starter bringing him to Toronto will not remotely plug the leak that's been plaguing this team.

 

100%

 

The bullpen is fine IMO. Osuna, Castro, Cecil, Loup, Hendriks, Estrada should be solid as a group. No concerns with any of them so far.

 

All of the SP have essentially been replacement level or worse, lol.

[Angrioter]

Of the starters, Hutch has the best SIERA at 4.48 followed by Norris at 4.83. Buehrle best xFIP at 4.49 followed by Sanchez at 4.52.

 

That mean, Esmil could be an upgrade right now.

[reedjohnsonfan]

100%

 

The bullpen is fine IMO. Osuna, Castro, Cecil, Loup, Hendriks, Estrada should be solid as a group. No concerns with any of them so far.

 

All of the SP have essentially been replacement level or worse, lol.

 

Dickey has a DRA of 3.83, and Hutch's is 3.86. Not bad at all.

[jaysfan2014]

As for the Papelbon rumors, Boston media is doing the same thing, as their bullpen is as bad or worse than the Jays.

[Governator]

I don't think so -- minute 6:20-->

 

Thanks for the reminder. Really a great video.

[KingKat]

I dunno, maybe it's just hard to euphemism up "uhhh.... be better and throw really hard again, plz".

 

It's true that there's only so much you can do to protect these egos. He was clearly under the impression that he could flat out win the job in spring training but it's not necessarily the team's fault that he thought that.

[BTS]

Dickey has a DRA of 3.83, and Hutch's is 3.86. Not bad at all.

 

What the hell is DRA?