Aaron Sanchez Reality Check Thread

[LTR]

If his GB% wasn't so high I'd be concerned by his low k%, but he could be a less extreme version of Henderson Alvarez (w/ a different arm slot etc).

[metafour]

If his GB% wasn't so high I'd be concerned by his low k%, but he could be a less extreme version of Henderson Alvarez (w/ a different arm slot etc).

 

It will come down to control and walk rate or him. Derek Lowe made a career as an above-average starter with low strikeout and swinging strike rates due to his ability to pound the zone with his sinker. Of course, Lowe had much better overall control than Sanchez. Sanchez doesn't need swinging strikes to succeed, he needs to control his pitches.

[Jimcanuck]

It will come down to control and walk rate or him.

 

That's only part of it. He's also 22, plenty of time to add deception to the change up and improve the slider to go with the ++ fastball and + curve.

 

As for control, he's not falling off the mound Drabek. He has a much more controlled delivery and actually quickly gets into position as evidenced by some good defensive plays.

[G-Snarls]

If his GB% wasn't so high I'd be concerned by his low k%, but he could be a less extreme version of Henderson Alvarez (w/ a different arm slot etc).

 

Plus Alvarez learned to strike more out as well. No reason Sachez can't.

[LTR]

Plus Alvarez learned to strike more out as well. No reason Sachez can't.

 

Yeah, but is 5.34/9 really "more", yes technically... but 3.8/9 seems unsustainable, I'd strike-out more pitching under-arm.

[Atothe]

and very few of them come in the main board

 

Should we be sad about this? If you answer yes, mods

[DuckDuckGose]

How many starts does this time frame encompass?

 

4 starts, 28 IP, 17 SO, 8 BB, 9 R, 8 ER, 26 H, 1.2 WHIP, 2.57 ERA, 3.70 xFIP, 4.65 FIP, .275 BABIP

[Deadpool]

If memory serves, North is just a kid. I believe the the others are, as well ... or at least they have the emotional maturity of children (or juvenile bees, as it were). So they are prone to having the entire world figured out, even when they don't understand the bigger picture. Arrogance goes hand in hand with adolescence. At some point they'll realize they were idiots (maybe), but it only comes with time and experience.

 

But Sanchez still sucks eggs.

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/LFlT04CTtrwc/giphy.gif

[tercet]

Anyone wanna take my bet that Sanchez will be a < 0.5 WAR reliever remainder of the year with (30IP Min?).

 

Need escrow bc 99% of you probably won't pay..

[Deadpool]

Anyone wanna take my bet that Sanchez will be a < 0.5 WAR reliever remainder of the year with (30IP Min?).

 

Need escrow bc 99% of you probably won't pay..

 

67 games left in the season? MAYBE 30 relievers put up > 0.5 WAR from here on out. Only an idiot would take that bet.

[RealAccountant]

Elite reliever is Elite

[HERPDERP]

http://i.imgur.com/3ZelT6D.gifv

[reedjohnsonfan]

67 games left in the season? MAYBE 30 relievers put up > 0.5 WAR from here on out. Only an idiot would take that bet.

 

He did do it last year in 33 innings.

 

Still, he'd have to be giving some odds on that one.

[GD]

http://i.imgur.com/3ZelT6D.gifv

 

Oh so he's a good reliever you say?

 

GO FIGURE

[HERPDERP]

Oh so he's a good reliever you say?

 

GO FIGURE

 

he's a good reliever, but I still want him to be a starter. Whats the problem?

[metafour]

[GD]

he's a good reliever, but I still want him to be a starter. Whats the problem?

 

if you want the problem, idk, go read the last 72 pages instead of randomly necroing a mercifully dead thread?

 

mods?

[Daniel Labude]

he's a good reliever, but I still want him to be a starter. Whats the problem?

 

Better than Hutch...too bad Hutch doesn't have the stuff to be a reliever and we could switch the 2

[HERPDERP]

if you want the problem, idk, go read the last 72 pages instead of randomly necroing a mercifully dead thread?

 

mods?

 

A lot of whining about Sanchez was early on in the season. He gradually got better in his past 6-7 starts and ended with an 8 inning performance before getting that lat injury.

[GD]

ok.

[93 Jays]

I wonder why so many people feel this need to be "the authority" on who will become what and when. Sound like a busload of children really.

 

There are a lot of people on here who know baseball ten time better than I do, I can admit that. I have my opinions on players as do others. I just don't understand the need to belittle others. Just flat out put them on ignore as I have. Put me on ignore if you think I'm an idiot. Sometimes I am. But one thing I refuse to do is be one of these doomsday fans who attack a player or the team as soon as they have a bad outing. But same thing, ignore those people if you feel they're not worth talking to or not on the same level you are. The fact that some posters continue to attack these people on a daily basis speaks volumes about the people who think they're so much better than those they belittle.

 

Back on topic. Hutch will be fine. His problem is actually quite similar to that of sanchez. Command. The difference being Sanchez is wild outside of the zone resulting in walks. Hutch is missing his spots but instead of walks, we end up with fat meatballs out over the plate that end up hurting him. People forget that Hutch is just a kid and still learning himself. When he learns to keep the ball out of the middle of the plate, he will be just fine. When he gets the ball in on both righties and lefties, he doesn't get hit hard. He's young, he's missing his spots and getting frustrated. But don't give up on him because he's still 3 years out of his prime and really only has a year and a half experience altogether.

 

Just like Sanchez, he shows flashes of brilliance and we should be happy to have them BOTH on our team. When Sanchez overcomes that mental block that causes him to come out of his delivery and lose his release point, he will make a very good front end starter IMO. But at this time, it is completely obvious to me that his value best suited to help this team is in the pen. Why f*** with an 8th and 9th inning that are solid now, that was a problem big time for us before? My two cents

[Jimcanuck]

I wonder why so many people feel this need to be "the authority" on who will become what and when. Sound like a busload of children really.

 

There are a lot of people on here who know baseball ten time better than I do, I can admit that. I have my opinions on players as do others. I just don't understand the need to belittle others. Just flat out put them on ignore as I have. Put me on ignore if you think I'm an idiot. Sometimes I am. But one thing I refuse to do is be one of these doomsday fans who attack a player or the team as soon as they have a bad outing. But same thing, ignore those people if you feel they're not worth talking to or not on the same level you are. The fact that some posters continue to attack these people on a daily basis speaks volumes about the people who think they're so much better than those they belittle.

 

Back on topic. Hutch will be fine. His problem is actually quite similar to that of sanchez. Command. The difference being Sanchez is wild outside of the zone resulting in walks. Hutch is missing his spots but instead of walks, we end up with fat meatballs out over the plate that end up hurting him. People forget that Hutch is just a kid and still learning himself. When he learns to keep the ball out of the middle of the plate, he will be just fine. When he gets the ball in on both righties and lefties, he doesn't get hit hard. He's young, he's missing his spots and getting frustrated. But don't give up on him because he's still 3 years out of his prime and really only has a year and a half experience altogether.

 

Just like Sanchez, he shows flashes of brilliance and we should be happy to have them BOTH on our team. When Sanchez overcomes that mental block that causes him to come out of his delivery and lose his release point, he will make a very good front end starter IMO. But at this time, it is completely obvious to me that his value best suited to help this team is in the pen. Why f*** with an 8th and 9th inning that are solid now, that was a problem big time for us before? My two cents

 

Well said. Wrt Sanchez, the arguments have not been whether he should be a starter or a reliever, but mostly about whether he should be a starter with the Jays or in Buffalo, and how much 'luck' has to do with his results. Pretty much everyone agrees he is a talented pitcher with the potential to be a frontline starter. He should have been starting in Buffalo at the start of the season, but Stroman.....

 

Jays have managed Sanchez well this year. It could be argued his starting and relieving with the big club this year has been better for him than being in Buffalo. And he has been a solid contributor, luck has helped, along with his ability to induce a high percentage of groundballs.

[93 Jays]

Even if Stroman hadn't been injured, They'd have had to use sanchez in the bullpen from the get go. His numbers last year were absolutely stellar and with how weak our bullpen seemed early on, they'd have had no choice but to use him out there. I love the kid, the amount of weak contact he induces is phenomenal considering his lack of command. Usually guys who struggle to find the zone, get absolutely mauled when they do find it. That in itself is an indicator to me that when he finds that release point on a consistent basis, he's going to be a great asset wherever he pitches. I held my breath when they made those trades just hoping to god they wouldn't trade him

[GD]

Well said. Wrt Sanchez, the arguments have not been whether he should be a starter or a reliever, but mostly about whether he should be a starter with the Jays or in Buffalo, and how much 'luck' has to do with his results. Pretty much everyone agrees he is a talented pitcher with the potential to be a frontline starter. He should have been starting in Buffalo at the start of the season, but Stroman.....

 

Jays have managed Sanchez well this year. It could be argued his starting and relieving with the big club this year has been better for him than being in Buffalo. And he has been a solid contributor, luck has helped, along with his ability to induce a high percentage of groundballs.

 

I think it's more of an issue of fundamentally disagreeing on what those results are.

[93 Jays]

I don't think much about the luck thing because I don't see much of it of it being a factor. Without the walks in the bullpen, he has induced weak contact on a consistent basis and continues to do so. In the rotation, with the walks, he induced weak contact for the most part around those walks, allowing himself to pitch out of jams. Is that just luck? I can't even begin to try and answer that because I don't see any merit in it whatsoever. I used to have trouble with guys who had decent sinkers and it's pretty widely known that when a sinker ball pitcher keeps the ball down, he will have success generally. When it leaks up, he will get mashed a lot more often. Except Aaron can get away with some mistakes because of his velocity.

 

But the jams I watched this kid work out of were the result of hitters CONTINUALLY hitting the top half of the ball, which is precisely what a sinker balls aspires to achieve. I rarely saw him make bad pitches in those situations, getting bailed out by the hitter. My opinion is that if you take away, for arguments sake, the massive amount of walks he was surrendering, and have those AB's settled by HIY or out, his stuff tends to indicate that the result would most often be out.

 

In the pen, last year over 34 innings, opposing hitters tore him up with a batting average of .130, this year thus far only .225. Even with an inflated walk rate against him and an opposing OBP of .327 his opposing OPS is still only .686. Even with his inflated walk rate this year, his WHIP is still only 1.31. If you take his walks down to a respectable 2/9IP, you have 20 AB's to work with and with his stuff on his averages thus far, you allow for say five hits. So what percentage of those hits are in crucial situations is anyone's guess. I'm not educated highly on all the metric stats. But his averages thus far suggest that his opponents don't hit for a high average against and with his GB percentage being very good, leads me to believe that without the walks, he's a dominant pitcher, just as he is out of the pen.

[GD]

Hey kilace, I can stupidly necrobump threads too!!

[Boxcar]

Putting him in, in that situation, was preeeety f***ing stupid when you have Lowe, Hawkins, even Cecil. 2nd and 3rd, 1 out up by two, yeah let's put in a guy who gives up a bunch of contact. Pretty much guaranteed the Yanks were getting at least one.

[jays_fever]

Putting him in, in that situation, was preeeety f***ing stupid when you have Lowe, Hawkins, even Cecil. 2nd and 3rd, 1 out up by two, yeah let's put in a guy who gives up a bunch of contact. Pretty much guaranteed the Yanks were getting at least one.

 

You can make the argument that Sanchez wasn't the best option in that situation (although most on here love Sanchez so they're all fos) but people saying Sanchez should have been handed handed a clean inning are so full of horseshit.

[Maahfaace]

Putting him in, in that situation, was preeeety f***ing stupid when you have Lowe, Hawkins, even Cecil. 2nd and 3rd, 1 out up by two, yeah let's put in a guy who gives up a bunch of contact. Pretty much guaranteed the Yanks were getting at least one.

 

You act as if the entire pen is ready to go instantly.

[GD]

Anyone but Sanchez in that spot. Not because Sanchez is bad. Because he doesn't K guys and we needed a K. Gibbons is dumn, just like most managers nowadays. 8th inning guy!!

 

I just bumped the thread because Kilace is dumn