John Sickels: Blue Jays top-20 prospects

[flafson]

Well, i doubt it's very realistic though. At some point with prospects, you gotta promote them or trade them, when you have too many good ones, you can't keep all of them in AAA.

[TwistedLogic]

Some of the fantasy GM'ing done on this board is so damn dumn.

[Laika]

I don't understand the love for Pentecost. It was interesting pick but it's too early to tell if he's more than a backup.

 

Have you ever seen him play? It's safe to assume that the guy who went 11th overall has an intriguing talent profile.

 

It's not like everybody is pumping up a 3rd rounder or something.

[Brownie19]

Imagine if we didn't do the awful Florida and Mets trades.

 

New guy here - can I get the Coles notes reason why everyone on here seemingly hates the marlin and mets deals? Is it just the money that Buehrle and Reyes make? (like FAs are lining up to sign here). Don't get me wrong I'd love to still have Syndergaard and Alvarez, but Reyes was coming off a 5.8 and 4.1 WAR seasons and despite his poor d, he's still been very solid for this team (no idea who our shortstop would have been otherwise). Buehrle has been as good as we could have expected and Dickey has been solid, yet somewhat disappointing.

 

Most of they guys we gave up haven't developed much at all....I don't get it. Learn me ole wise ones...

[Spanky99]

A lot of people were upset about the value loss, not so much the players involved coming our way.

[Boxcar]

New guy here - can I get the Coles notes reason why everyone on here seemingly hates the marlin and mets deals? Is it just the money that Buehrle and Reyes make? (like FAs are lining up to sign here). Don't get me wrong I'd love to still have Syndergaard and Alvarez, but Reyes was coming off a 5.8 and 4.1 WAR seasons and despite his poor d, he's still been very solid for this team (no idea who our shortstop would have been otherwise). Buehrle has been as good as we could have expected and Dickey has been solid, yet somewhat disappointing.

 

Most of they guys we gave up haven't developed much at all....I don't get it. Learn me ole wise ones...

 

Escobar would be the SS. I'd rather have Escobar @ SS instead of Reyes and Alvarez in the rotation instead of Buehrle by themselves, never mind all the other assets we gave up.

[Brownie19]

Escobar would be the SS. I'd rather have Escobar @ SS instead of Reyes and Alvarez in the rotation instead of Buehrle by themselves, never mind all the other assets we gave up.

 

Escobar was a replacement level player last year. I assume salary/WAR is part of your reasoning (and what Spanky means by "value loss")?

 

Did you want Escobar/Alvarez over Reyes/Buehrle in 2013 or last year?

[admin]

New guy here - can I get the Coles notes reason why everyone on here seemingly hates the marlin and mets deals? Is it just the money that Buehrle and Reyes make? (like FAs are lining up to sign here). Don't get me wrong I'd love to still have Syndergaard and Alvarez, but Reyes was coming off a 5.8 and 4.1 WAR seasons and despite his poor d, he's still been very solid for this team (no idea who our shortstop would have been otherwise). Buehrle has been as good as we could have expected and Dickey has been solid, yet somewhat disappointing.

 

Most of they guys we gave up haven't developed much at all....I don't get it. Learn me ole wise ones...

 

Basically we traded a s*** ton of prospects for free agent contracts, backloaded free agent contracts. We could have signed those guys the previous year for just their contracts and not give a s*** ton of prospects. Didn't turn out absolutely terrible, but money could have spent a lot better and saved our farm or made better moves. Trades like Donaldson trades are smart moves. Or Mat Latos a few years ago. It was like he got the go ahead to spend money and had to blow it as fast as he could.

 

Dickey has been decent, but wasn't worth two top prospects given his age and limited success. Most people here thought we were going to get him for JPA+, not two top prospects. If you're giving two top prospects up it should be for a controllable ace or #2.

 

Reyes was decent, and is a great player, but he's getting paid $22M per year the next three years. Today, with contracts on the rise it doesnt look as bad, but his speed is going to decline, and we've witnessed his defense and injuries.

 

But hey, Dickey could have had a 2.50ERA same with Johnson, and we could have won the world series and all would have been forgotten. But we gave ourselves a very limited window for that to happen. Luckily we kill the drafts and still have a good farm.

[Brownie19]

I viewed AA getting the best pitcher he could (reigning cy young winner) within the remaining budget ($5M). I thought he gave up a bit too much there, but he was taking a risk to try and win now - which I can appreciate

[Brownie19]

And it's funny to see people missing Alvarez when he induces swinging strikes about as much as Sanchez does....yet Sanchez is this msg boards whipping boy.

[BTS]

And it's funny to see people missing Alvarez when he induces swinging strikes about as much as Sanchez does....yet Sanchez is this msg boards whipping boy.

 

Alvarez has demonstrated that he can provide 30 effective starts, and there's value in that. Right now it's a long shot that Sanchez can go 180 innings with a 3/1 K/BB. He can't even do it in the minors.

[LongTimeReader]

And it's funny to see people missing Alvarez when he induces swinging strikes about as much as Sanchez does....yet Sanchez is this msg boards whipping boy.

 

If Sanchez is our new whipping boy things are looking up!

[LongTimeReader]

And it's funny to see people missing Alvarez when he induces swinging strikes about as much as Sanchez does....yet Sanchez is this msg boards whipping boy.

 

If Sanchez is our new whipping boy things are looking up!

 

A lot better than those previously (last 5 years or so):

 

Kevin Millar,

Jo Jo Reyes,

Lind (x years),

Arencibia,

Bonifiacio,

Aaron Laffey,

Rasmus (x years),

Romero (x years),

BJ Ryan (x years),

Rios (x years),

Moises Sierra (x years),

Vernon Wells (x years)

[KingKat]

Have you ever seen him play? It's safe to assume that the guy who went 11th overall has an intriguing talent profile.

 

It's not like everybody is pumping up a 3rd rounder or something.

 

Seem to me that there are too many established prospects in the system to justify putting Pentecost top 5 based on his profile but maybe that's just me.

[LGBJ29]

If Sanchez is our new whipping boy things are looking up!

 

A lot better than those previously (last 5 years or so):

 

Kevin Millar,

Jo Jo Reyes,

Lind (x years),

Arencibia,

Bonifiacio,

Aaron Laffey,

Rasmus (x years),

Romero (x years),

BJ Ryan (x years),

Rios (x years),

Moises Sierra (x years),

Vernon Wells (x years)

 

so many bad memories on that list

[LongTimeReader]

so many bad memories on that list

 

You better believe it. Sometimes to get to the light you have to crawl through the mud first.

[Laika]

Seem to me that there are too many established prospects in the system to justify putting Pentecost top 5 based on his profile but maybe that's just me.

 

hmmm... the only one that I think could/should have been above him is Hoffman, and he gave them the same grade anyway.

[Jimcanuck]

my biggest issue with the Marlins/Mets trades is the Jays went from one of the youngest to the one of the oldest teams in the majors

 

also was a very inefficient addition of wins

 

would rather the Jays reap the benefits of a young team and one of the best farms in baseball, instead of taking the Phillies route

[Laika]

Osuna could be too. But he used ERA in his description of him so...

 

lol I didn't even notice how low Osuna was. But I actually think it's fair to have Osuna lower than some people (like you) do, based on the alarming lack of innings in four pro years.

[SAAviour]

And it's funny to see people missing Alvarez when he induces swinging strikes about as much as Sanchez does....yet Sanchez is this msg boards whipping boy.

 

I get the lack of control issue he had in the minors thing, but I'm with brownie, I dont understand the hate for Sanchez.

[BTS]

I get the lack of control issue he had in the minors thing, but I'm with brownie, I dont understand the hate for Sanchez.

 

The lack of control issue. That doesn't play well with an inability to induce swinging strikes.

[Jimcanuck]

The lack of control issue. That doesn't play well with an inability to induce swinging strikes.

 

the adjustment made mid season last seems to have improved his control though

 

regardless, all indications are that Sanchez is the current favourite for 5th starter, which is madness

 

he needs to be in buffalo improving his craft and ready to fill in when required

[Orgfiller]

the adjustment made mid season last seems to have improved his control though

 

regardless, all indications are that Sanchez is the current favourite for 5th starter, which is madness

 

he needs to be in buffalo improving his craft and ready to fill in when required

I don't think this is necessarily true. The organization most likely has Estrada and Norris over him on the depth chart.

[SAAviour]

He throws the easiest looking 98 I may have ever seen, looks completely effortless.

[Laika]

It's really hard to interpret just how much Sanchez' extreme GB tendencies will be able to compensate for the poor PD stats. You see a lot of guys like Marco Estrada, Joe Blanton, and the new Timmy Lincecum that can miss bats and limit walks, but they get pounded when guys guess right and put a good swing on it. Sanchez is like the polar opposite of that. A hitter can look fastball, get it, put a good swing on it, and then hit a s***** groundball because the thing it coming at 96 and moving halfway across the plate.

[BTS]

It's really hard to interpret just how much Sanchez' extreme GB tendencies will be able to compensate for the poor PD stats. You see a lot of guys like Marco Estrada, Joe Blanton, and the new Timmy Lincecum that can miss bats and limit walks, but they get pounded when guys guess right and put a good swing on it. Sanchez is like the polar opposite of that. A hitter can look fastball, get it, put a good swing on it, and then hit a s***** groundball because the thing it coming at 96 and moving halfway across the plate.

 

The big concern for me is command. His stuff is so good that I buy him being able to stick as a starter inducing a ton of groundballs and striking out 6/9. It only works if he stops walking people though, and that's a big stretch given his minor league track record.

[baubau]

I don't think this is necessarily true. The organization most likely has Estrada and Norris over him on the depth chart.

 

Yep. I believe even AA mentioned that it could be a possibility that Norris blows the door open in spring training taking the no. 5 spot and Sanchez could be moved to the pen. I would personally prefer that more. I would imagine the Jays as well as they'd probably like to get a little more hands on with him in the MLB and watch his progress. Sure even they'd be concerned with his lack of arsenal and command issues.

 

I just hope Sanchez can continue to increase his value and the team does well that AA is forced into a position during the deadline to move him.

[Chappy]

I still think Sanchez is destined to be an elite RP.

[Chappy]

The big concern for me is command. His stuff is so good that I buy him being able to stick as a starter inducing a ton of groundballs and striking out 6/9. It only works if he stops walking people though, and that's a big stretch given his minor league track record.

 

I can't see him succeeding as a SP with that garbage walk rate. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

[Chappy]

Yep. I believe even AA mentioned that it could be a possibility that Norris blows the door open in spring training taking the no. 5 spot and Sanchez could be moved to the pen. I would personally prefer that more. I would imagine the Jays as well as they'd probably like to get a little more hands on with him in the MLB and watch his progress. Sure even they'd be concerned with his lack of arsenal and command issues.

 

I just hope Sanchez can continue to increase his value and the team does well that AA is forced into a position during the deadline to move him.

 

If $$ comes into play, I think AA already has it in his head that Sanchez is in the pen. We have some good arms coming up the ranks that he may prefer to just stick Sanchez in the pen and bank the payroll. He can still be stretched out if needed.