Pitching Depth - How Much is Enough

[TheHurl]

What were Jose Bautista's projections for 2010.

 

.240/.336/.417.

 

I'll throw another outlier out there...what was Kluber's projections for 2014?

[TheHurl]

Pedro is 2.5 inches taller than Stroman.

 

All Dominican Mexican's say they are 2.5 inches bigger than they really are.

 

I am 5'10.5" and I have a picture of Pedro and I (my third favourite pitcher of all time) and I am taller than him. I'll scan in a moment.

[TwistedLogic]

All Dominican Mexican's say they are 2.5 inches bigger than they really are.

 

I am 5'10.5" and I have a picture of Pedro and I (my third favourite pitcher of all time) and I am taller than him. I'll scan in a moment.

 

Google has him at 1.80 m (5'9), so that matches your story as well.

 

I agree that Sanchez has tremendous upside, but he's not there yet. He isn't anywhere near the pitcher that Norris is now. Me may be better in the future, he could be a stud, but he isn't very good right now. I'd rather see him click in AAA then wait for it to happen at the major league level.

 

I'm almost positive that the outcome of the Sanchez vs Norris battle will be truly determined in Spring Training.

[TheHurl]

Google has him at 1.80 m (5'9), so that matches your story as well.

 

What does Google have me at...I'd prefer not to post the pic of my mullet years.

[baubau]

I am unable to find this at the moment but was there not a story of AA / pitching coaches whom tried to get Sanchez's stride longer near the end of the year? I know they made it compact when he was in AAA but thought due to the risk of injury they were trying to change it. Or am I just imagining a story in my mind?

[Atothe]

What does Google have me at...I'd prefer not to post the pic of my mullet years.

 

Don't do it, we don't wanna see that horrendous mess?

[Angrioter]

Pedro is 2.5 inches taller than Stroman.

 

I know Pedro, he's not 5'11".

Pedro is 5'91/2" and Cueto is 5'10".

[glory]

Starting Sanchez in the big league rotation is crazy. He should start in AAA and work his way up like Stroman did. I'm not sure why the Jays are in such a hurry with him. It seems he's either going to be in the big league rotation or big league pen. No in between. Why?

 

Add another starter, put Sanchez/Norris in AAA, and then call them up based on need.

[TheHurl]

Starting Sanchez in the big league rotation is crazy. He should start in AAA and work his way up like Stroman did. I'm not sure why the Jays are in such a hurry with him. It seems he's either going to be in the big league rotation or big league pen. No in between. Why?

 

Add another starter, put Sanchez/Norris in AAA, and then call them up based on need.

 

The point, at least that the Statsy guys are trying to make, is that Sanchez doesn't need to just get down and pitch...his stats are not going to be great if he doesn't learn to miss bats more. IMO, If they are going to send him down, there should be a little more than tweaks going on, it should be some major changes which might require him to not be ready all year.

[saskjayfan]

Starting Sanchez in the big league rotation is crazy. He should start in AAA and work his way up like Stroman did. I'm not sure why the Jays are in such a hurry with him. It seems he's either going to be in the big league rotation or big league pen. No in between. Why?

 

Add another starter, put Sanchez/Norris in AAA, and then call them up based on need.

 

I don't understand the obsession of having a guy dominate at AAA for two months before bringing him up. If we missed the playoffs by 1 game and Sanchez pitched well in the majors, but spent the first half of the season in AAA everyone would be pissed.

 

Let Sanchez start and if he fails, there's Norris. If he fails, go to Estrada or trade for someone. By the end of spring training, you might already know that Sanchez isn't the guy to start. Who knows what will happen? Just play the best players.

 

Just because the Jays are saying Sanchez looks like he will be the number 5 guy going into spring training, it doesn't mean that's set in stone. Norris, Estrada are options as well. We may very well sign or trade for another starter before spring training.

[Maahfaace]

Jiminez is good defensively. MB is going to be a great pitching coach someday, but the AAA coaches are quite good too.

 

Sanchez has about ~30 AAA innings. Norris ~20. They both need some more seasoning.

 

Rushing elite arms to the majors not recommended.

 

what exactly would make MB a good pitching coach? I read somewhere he hasnt shaken off a pitch in 15 years.......what would his advice be? throw whatever the catcher calls.....at 80 MPH

 

MB will be a dog trainer when he retires

[saskjayfan]

The point, at least that the Statsy guys are trying to make, is that Sanchez doesn't need to just get down and pitch...his stats are not going to be great if he doesn't learn to miss bats more. IMO, If they are going to send him down, there should be a little more than tweaks going on, it should be some major changes which might require him to not be ready all year.

 

I'm curious as to what changes you think he should make.

[TheHurl]

I'm curious as to what changes you think he should make.

 

I'm not a pitching mechanics guy at all. If i understood pitching better I probably could have hit more when I played. All I know is that in the minors Sanchez's lack of swinging strikes was a concern...and it wasn't any better in his small sample last year in the bigs. Getting swinging strikes may not even be a mechanical thing. Maybe it's changing to a cutter or something like that. If Moogy weren't such a **** he might actually be the guy to talk about it.

[SAAviour]

I'm all for signing a pitcher. Norris worries me with his loss of velocity at the end of last season....we're due for a tommy john, just sayin.

I want Sanchez to start but I want him ready as our 6th starter, maybe even 7th. Chances are we don't make it out of spring training without an injury to a starter.

[SAAviour]

I really believe Sanchez would benefit greatly from a cutter.

 

Fun fact: Mark Buehrle had a better swinging strike rate than Sanchez last year.

 

That's not a fun fact.

[43211234]

I really believe Sanchez would benefit greatly from a cutter.

 

Fun fact: Mark Buehrle had a better swinging strike rate than Sanchez last year.

 

I strongly agree.

 

But I wonder if he would be able to learn a cutter, given his extreme natural sink. I'm just wondering though, I don't know much about those things. Maybe it doesn't make a difference at all.

[L54]

There is a pretty vast difference between Daniel Norris and Ramon Ortiz.

 

That's what I said?

[43211234]

Why would 2015 be any different? Sanchez might not be able to find the strike zone (like Drabek), Norris might get hammered, Dickey get hurt, and again Jays are scraping the barrel. s*** happens. Depth matters.

 

Granted, 5 years is a short sample size.... need about 30 years of data across 6 teams selected at random and use confidence levels to help determine necessary pitching depth.

 

I agree that depth is a potential issue and I think they should look at adding a starter to their rotation or re-building the depth at SP after the last two trades. I was just saying that I see their depth pieces are better than the Joel Carrenos of the league and are more likely to be able to fill in long term if needed. Of course nothing is a given, I just like Norris' and even Sanchez's chance of sticking over many of the past options.

 

And it can't be ignored that Dickey and Buehrle are in the rotation. Any pitcher can break at any time but they might be the two starters in the league with the lowest probability of injury, if such a thing could reasonably be calculated.

 

2014's health compared to other years wasn't complete happenstance.

[Jimcanuck]

Bump cuz this thread from Dec 2014 is prophetic

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

What does Google have me at...I'd prefer not to post the pic of my mullet years.

 

Do it Hurl, and I'll find one too and figure out how to post it! Dueling Mullets and Hair at Dawn! Lol

[Angrioter]

I really don't like the idea of Estrada as the 5 th starter so while it doesn't seem likely I hope Norris or even Sanchez grabs that spot in ST.

 

Right now I think we need 3 pitchers. A starter and at least two relievers

 

 

Bump