Offseason roster thread 2014

[Chappy]

Lind will be back and next season he and Mayberry will be platooning and providing one of the better platoons in the league. That being said, the roster will be a cluster f*** as a result.

[John_Havok]

You don't have to invest big dollars in a guy who can hit lefties, but not righties. Lefties throw 28% of pitches in the MLB. These players don't get paid big dollars. Mayberry would do, Valencia would do....Adam Lind is an ELITE hitter against righties. Who are you going to sign to DH and for what dollars.

 

And, you also don't need to find bat-only lefty hitter to platoon with him. There's guys out there who can play defense and hit lefties well. Having Lind as half of your DH spot at 7.5 is not a roster altering decision.

 

Keeping guys like Francisco as well as Lind becomes a problem.

[burlingtonbandit]

Lind will be back and next season he and Mayberry will be platooning and providing one of the better platoons in the league. That being said, the roster will be a cluster f*** as a result.

 

Id rather have Valencia than Mayberry. He can add a little bit more position value and provides insurance in case of Lawrie.

[BTS]

And, you also don't need to find bat-only lefty hitter to platoon with him. There's guys out there who can play defense and hit lefties well. Having Lind as half of your DH spot at 7.5 is not a roster altering decision.

 

Keeping guys like Francisco as well as Lind becomes a problem.

 

Yeah. Use someone like Valencia who has some utility aside from DH platoon guy. A bench of:

 

Valencia

catcher

outfielder

middle infielder

 

is just fine.

[John_Havok]

Yeah. Use someone like Valencia who has some utility aside from DH platoon guy. A bench of:

 

Valencia

catcher

outfielder

middle infielder

 

is just fine.

 

So Valencia, Thole, Pillar, Izturis?

[kgm1]

Now we've gone from chasing 7M after 1M, to chasing 7M after the possibility of spending another 7.5M, after the 7M? Stop the madness!

 

And, you don't make dumb decisions for fear you'll make a dumber decision if you don't. Regardless, as I've stated over and over again, the adverse impacts of Lind go beyond monies due, and onto the ability to properly construct the rest of the roster. Bringing back Lind means you have to invest in a batting-buddy, whose abilities will be "wasted" DHing his good handedness (and not able to contribute elsewhere), plus being ready to fill in when alone is out yet again. So a guy with a low value ceiling who causes roster construction problems on a team the has proven it needs that depth around.

 

You don't do it.

 

Moogy Who are you replacing him with. You have holes at 2nd, LF, CF, and the bull pen. Even if the budget stays the same at 137 mil we can,t fill all those holes properly and you want to create another hole? Ask the brewers or the pirates how easy it is r to replace a 1st B/DH

 

And at 7.5 mil

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

You don't have to invest big dollars in a guy who can hit lefties, but not righties. Lefties throw 28% of pitches in the MLB. These players don't get paid big dollars. Mayberry would do, Valencia would do....Adam Lind is an ELITE hitter against righties. Who are you going to sign to DH and for what dollars.

 

Dunn ?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Let Lind walk already Melky would be a great DH next year!

[kgm1]

Lind will be back and next season he and Mayberry will be platooning and providing one of the better platoons in the league. That being said, the roster will be a cluster f*** as a result.

 

Hell every team wants to avoid platoons and have a bench loaded with Brock Holt types. A Lind platoon is far from the worst problem facing this team.

[JFD]

Francisco is a nice fit for the roster as currently constructed IMO. If his arb salary is ~$3 million, that's decent value. He's a very good bench bat, can play first and isn't terrible at third. Insurance at DH for when Lind goes down etc... I think there will probably be a place for him.

 

Really not keen on paying market value for Melky. I'd rather target a LF with a more under-valued skill set (defense). Melky is a complete butcher.

 

Melky is fine defensively and has a cannon arm.

[burlingtonbandit]

Melky is fine defensively and has a cannon arm.

 

He works out to a little below average. He has bad range but the arm makes up for most of it in LF. UZR and DRS had him at -3 runs in LF. He is fine there for a year or 2 but by the time he turns 32,33 he is going to be awful.

[John_Havok]

He works out to a little below average. He has bad range but the arm makes up for most of it in LF. UZR and DRS had him at -3 runs in LF. He is fine there for a year or 2 but by the time he turns 32,33 he is going to be awful.

 

Make no mistake Melky is very below average defensive left fielder. It's just that people remember the highlight reel plays and not the big picture of poor routes and lots of plays that should be outs that don't get converted because of it.

[GNick49]

Melky is fine defensively and has a cannon arm.

 

His dWAR -1.0

[burlingtonbandit]

His dWAR -1.0

 

No it isn't. You probably just went to Fangraphs and looked into the DEF column which includes positional adjustment. He's been worth -5 runs or -0.5 dWAR.

[RealAccountant]

What would Burly get if he was a free agent this year. I would say he would easily end up with 3 years/40 Million, so its hard for me to believe that no one will take him on for 19 Million. Just dont understand,

[burlingtonbandit]

What would Burly get if he was a free agent this year. I would say he would easily end up with 3 years/40 Million, so its hard for me to believe that no one will take him on for 19 Million. Just dont understand,

 

He would probably get a one year 20 million if he continues his performance for the last 2 starts. Its the SN media like Wilner, Blair, Bobcat and Brunt that are all claiming you have to eat money. Meanwhile they are all saying Melky is going to get $90 million.

 

My feeling is that if you can trade Buehrle and get something decent back and don't have to eat money you do it. But if you don't get anything in return you are better to take the guaranteed innings and get rid of Happ who I am not the biggest fan of.

[glory]

Yeah the Jays don't have to pick up salary for Buehrle. He is overpaid but for one year and a near lock of 200 IP, he is not hurting the team. Happ is more overpaid than Buehrle is.

[glory]

Lind missed 2 and a half weeks due to his back this year. He missed a couple games last year due to the back, but did not have a DL stint. Lind missed most of his games due to a foul ball off his foot. How is that not a fluke. 72% of all pitches thrown are from right handers in the MLB. Lind plays better first base than EE. Lind's wrc+ is 139. Where are you going to find that for 6.5 mil on the free agent market. Give me a break.

 

Question: if you knew you could dump Reyes' salary without first getting a SS to replace him, would you do it? If the answer is yes, then same logic applies here. Lind is a 1-2 WAR platoon DH who takes up two roster spots and is not a lock to stay healthy due to chronic issues (back). Even if you replace him with someone who doesn't hit righties as well as him, the mere ability to be flexible with the DH position and get someone who is more split neutral and better defensively would be worthwhile.

 

If you go by WAR, as many of you do, Lind is about as valuable as JA Happ in a normal season. Why is one replaceable and the other impossible to replace?

[KingKat]

Why are so many people assuming that Lind's caddy has to be an otherwise useless player?

[kgm1]

We can debate this around for the next two months but really it is all dependent on the budget and we will never know that. Even if it goes down AA on orders from Rogers will say he has money but will state nothing fit for them.

[glory]

Seeing how the Rogers media puppets (Wilner) are already hyping up Pillar as a solid LF option, I think I know where this is going as far as 2015 payroll. Goins/Izturis at 2B, Gose in CF, Pillar in LF against RHP. Pillar switches to CF and Valencia and Mayberry replace Gose and Lind against LHP. That's entirely what I'm expecting for next season. The defense will be great, but the offense horrid.

 

Alex seems scared as hell to trade prospects after the fiasco two years ago and Rogers probably won't be increasing payroll any time soon since they didn't want to do it at the deadline apparently.

[Sorrow]

Could always use EE as your DH and use Lind and Mayberry at 1st vs RHP and LHP respectively. It's not like EE is some amazing defensive 1B, he's worse at it than Lind is and it's not a terrible platoon to have.

[KingKat]

It was explained very clearly, multiple times, why that expectation exists. Out of necessity of the situation. It's pretty simple, and very clear. Anyone who is his v. LHP "caddy" ... their potential usefulness is eaten up by having to DH. If you have a "useful" position player, who is only decent v. one handedness, and all (for practical purposes ... obviously he'll see some limited PAs in other opportunities) of his PAs v. that handedness need to come as a DH, he can't be useful elsewhere. If he's in a game v. LHP as a DH, he certainly can't be in a game v. LHP fielding a position at the same time.

 

Unless he's Bugs Bunny.

 

If a player has defensive value, he can be used in the same lineup as Lind versus RHP when needed. He doesn't have to exclusively caddy. Heck if he's a good a enough defensive player, he might be in the lineup all the time and just push some other right-hander to DH. This scenario was discussed serval times vis-à-vis Kratz/Navarro. If the bench is put together properly, you can roster a guy like Lind. Stop being such a chicken little. It just makes you look stupid.

[KingKat]

You keep tripping yourself up. You actually spoke to the issue, but didn't realize it. This guy you're acquiring ... and who is he, by the way? ... who can platoon v. LHP, and apparently has enough defensive value to make up for his complete lack of bat v. RHP ... well, then ... why would you waste that defensive value DH'ing him, at all? You wouldn't. Unless you're retarded. So this mythical guy is now a full-time player in the field, because of his defensive prowess, and you're left, yet again, with finding a DH-exclusive caddy v. LHP.

 

Destroying your own point within the same post makes YOU look stupid.

 

No you're just logic challenged. You might have a player who plays the field sometimes and DHs other times, Navarro for instance could be such a player. Lind isn't the problem. He provides value. The real issue is that the bench over the last couple of years has been populated with players who provide next to no value on either side of the ball, guys like Sierra, Thole and Bonifacio. You stop doing that and rostering Lind isn't an issue. It's a shame you're too obstinate and obtuse to comprehend this but I suppose it can't be helped. You're not wrong that rostering a DH platoon player isn't ideal but to argue that it's so eggregious that it cancels out his offensive value and makes it worthwhile to spend money just to dump him is just not a reasonable position no matter how many times you try to make the argument. You're basically saying that if you put a value calculation on Lind's defensive inflexebility, it would be something in the neighborhood of - 1.5 WAR to - 2 WAR plus whatever a million dollars is worth. Do you really think that if someone did some actual research on this that that would be the conclusion? Since you're too simple minded to ever back down from an argument, I'll just have to assume that yes you do in fact believe this. In Moogy's world, not being proven wrong equals being right.

[BTS]

I don't understand why people are so caught up on Lind's 'platoon-mate'. If the rest of the bench is strong, it isn't an issue. If you have a Gentry/Denorfia type, you plug them into LF vs. lefties and let Melky (if he's here) DH. Hardly a waste of a roster spot.

[CHRIS]

Personally I don't see a problem having Lind on this roster at that amount. Strong bat against RHP; legit pinch hitting option off the bench when a LHP starts; passable at 1B.

 

If he gets his physical activity level up to 25-28 minutes a day, he could be a real threat.

[saskjayfan]

I don't understand why people are so caught up on Lind's 'platoon-mate'. If the rest of the bench is strong, it isn't an issue. If you have a Gentry/Denorfia type, you plug them into LF vs. lefties and let Melky (if he's here) DH. Hardly a waste of a roster spot.

 

I'd be fine with Mayberry being his platoon partner. You just can't find players who hit righties the way Lind does for 6.5 mil. If the jays bought him out, the Yankees would have him signed for way more than 6.5 million in a matter of minutes after the free agency period hit.

[saskjayfan]

Says the guy who just finished raging against something that was never implied about his comments ... raging, twice, in fact ... because of a misapplication of "logic."

 

 

 

The catching situation, which is often necessarily not a "strict" platoon, because of the rest needed for the position (absent a few outliers), is not applicable here.

 

 

 

One issue has little to do with the other ... although having Lind on the roster does impede your ability to build an adequate bench, greatly.

 

 

 

Your analysis is vapid. It's superficial. "He provides value. The end." How trite. And yet you dare go on this nonsensical tirade about me being obstinate and obtuse (when you've recently proven, yet again, that those descriptors apply to you).

 

 

 

No one said it cancels out his offensive value. Stop saying stupid s***. Stop being unable to properly interpret basic statements and arguments. Stop being you.

 

 

 

I'm not basically saying that. Holy s***. Do you read my comments, and then just completely ignore them and construct something out of thin air that you think I should have said? If you could just please do the board a favor and stop responding to my comments if you can't understand them, that'd be great. You've proven, time and time again, that you can't handle me, nor my comments. You're illogical and irrational. You're a virtual deaf person with an anger management issue who flies off the handle when he mishears what people say around him.

 

 

 

That's an idea ... you go do research with the intent of repudiating a mythical claim, Mr. Quixote.

 

 

 

Have you been drinking? Honestly, why do you rage so nonsensically about me? And it's so strange that you do it in a manner that attempts to claim intellectual superiority, when you're so devoid of basic reading comprehension and logic skills that you're always swinging blindly.

 

It's freaking insanity.

 

People on message boards have different opinions. Why do you feel the need to insult people's intelligence when they disagree with you?

[BTS]

People on message boards have different opinions. Why do you feel the need to insult people's intelligence when they disagree with you?

 

It's funny because KingKat is probably the most diplomatic poster on the forum, and Moogy can't even get along with him.

[KingKat]

It's funny because KingKat is probably the most diplomatic poster on the forum, and Moogy can't even get along with him.

 

I have tried reaching out to Moogy. I've tried to have genuine dialogue with him and I've given him credit at multiple turns both directly to him and in conversations with other people. That being said I eventually reached the conclusion that there's not much point in taking him more seriously than he takes himself. He's just a guy who thinks he's funny. There's just doesn't seem to be much more to it. If there is, I certainly haven't found it and I grew tired of trying. Now I borrow from his playbook and call him logic challenged, etc. It doesn't really make a difference in the end. Moogy gonna Moogy. I have never ever on this board or the other found a poster that it was harder to have a genuine exchange with. He just seems to be in it to entertain himself.

 

He says that he's not arguing that Lind defensive limitations cancel out his offensive contributions but he still maintains that Lind and his offensive contribution should be dumped because of his defensive limitations. It's basically an untenable position but he'll continue to argue it until he's blue in the face because again, Moogy gonna Moogy. He insists that he's not trolling so what are we supposed to conclude instead? I guess that he's a pretty smart guy who isn't content to be merely smart. He needs to be SMARTER even if it actually makes him look DUMBER.