We need a 3B more than anything else

[shortstop]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_franchise_postseason_droughts

 

no complaints on the world series drought list

 

but omg on the longest current postseason drought

 

that's just...sad...

[sh3156]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_franchise_postseason_droughts

 

no complaints on the world series drought list

 

but omg on the longest current postseason drought

 

that's just...sad...

 

We are pretty safe with the Royals but AA should wake up and look at that everyday

.

 

This opportunity we have won't be here next year it wont be here the year after that and it wont be here the year after that.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Sooner or later you have to take a chance. If you don't go for it and still suck next year fan will become extremely a pathetic

 

Though the 95 scenerio is not possible with the large amount of young fans that the jays have

 

The Jays had 4 million people going through the gates. Nobody wasn't a fan back then. Then the '94 work stoppage and the Jays having a bad team happened and all of a sudden these "baseball" fans.....weren't.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I agree that should the opportunity come, we improve the team. However, my only issue is that I don't trust AA at all.

 

Nobody does

 

New guy speaks for everyone.....nice.

[Jimcanuck]

We are pretty safe with the Royals but AA should wake up and look at that everyday

.

 

This opportunity we have won't be here next year it wont be here the year after that and it wont be here the year after that.

 

Don't agree at all.... opportunity to have a top and cheap young pitching staff in Hutchison, Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, whoever in spring 2016. Plenty of cash left to hire some top FA

 

But there's no chance if Sanchez and Norris are moved for a 'proven' player - and a real risk even with the 'proven' player the jays don't make the post season

 

You gotta be damn sure before going all-in and this year is not it

[GeorgiaPeach]

Just mentioning a fact that a player who has a .300 obp in limited at bats hasnt proven anything makes me a Phillies model supporter?

 

I trust Franklin more than I trust Kawasaki or Tolleson at the plate and in the field ROS. And then the benefit of having him for a few more years, but that doesn't matter right now to fans.

 

By the way if I remember correctly phillies made several playoffs appearances. Jays haven't played a meaningful September game is 21 years. There are university graduates who have never seen a jays playoffs game

 

head shaker

[sh3156]

The Jays had 4 million people going through the gates. Nobody wasn't a fan back then. Then the '94 work stoppage and the Jays having a bad team happened and all of a sudden these "baseball" fans.....weren't.

 

It was a different time and a different type of fanbase. They had grown up with the 80s bluejays and had their "orgasms" when the jays won back to back. There was no need to go back. They had seen the top of the mountain

 

The last two years I've been to the games I've seen the crowd younger and younger. Also very multicultural which makes me happy. These fans have not seen victory and they are hungry for it. They deserve a shot. We deserve a shot. They will be there for this team win or lose because they are real fans and not fairweather.

 

There are a few posters here who aren't event jays fans ( one I asked yesterday and he admitted he isn't a jays fan) . I wonder why they are here. They like to see this team lose. I spent years on the realgm boards and you run into younger fans there as well

 

Anyhow I do respect your viewpoint as I can tell its educated and passionate

[shortstop]

we saw it with the raptors

 

this city is aching to cheer for a winning team

 

hockey, basketball and/or baseball...

[saskjayfan]

Jays should just swoop in and rent Lester...give them a pompey. As far as Lawrie goes, it's been almost 3 weeks. He should be out of the splint by now. Now it's about working the finger and getting the ligaments right. He should be back soon after the all star break. These are desperate times, I wouldn't worry about too many rehab games, but the Jays will probably want him to play a few.

[Jimcanuck]

we saw it with the raptors

 

this city is aching to cheer for a winning team

 

hockey, basketball and/or baseball...

 

Sure but the Jays FO doesn't think in those terms. For them its about maximizing $$, now and in the future

 

AA knows the Jays are an old team and he will be out of job soon if he sells off more top prospects

[Jimcanuck]

Not soon enough. I don't trust this incompetent one bit.

 

I'm in the camp that thinks the Beest is responsible for the head scratchers

[shortstop]

I think AA can gut the farm & Rogers doesn't need to approve any deal...not that he would but I think he doesn't need to report to Rogers about giving away prospects...

 

it's the fact that it's very possible Rogers has limited AA's ability to add to payroll...that he definitely needs approval on...

 

so in theory, imo, it's possible he could trade top prospects but he'd have to have the other team eat all/most of the salary...

 

not that this would happen or he would do it, but just that imo, it's possible

[shortstop]

I'm in the camp that thinks the Beest is responsible for the head scratchers

 

 

can we get Shelley Sterling to convince him (manipulate?!) to get some tests done with the doctors (shh, don't tell Beest they're tests to determine capacity)...

[Jimcanuck]

I think AA can gut the farm & Rogers doesn't need to approve any deal...not that he would but I think he doesn't need to report to Rogers about giving away prospects...

 

it's the fact that it's very possible Rogers has limited AA's ability to add to payroll...that he definitely needs approval on...

 

so in theory, imo, it's possible he could trade top prospects but he'd have to have the other team eat all/most of the salary...

 

not that this would happen or he would do it, but just that imo, it's possible

 

It would be stupid..... young dynamic players put more bums in the seats then boring old veterans..... look at Dickey, the 'proven' pitcher.... no one wants to watch his gimmicky pitching anymore

 

Prime example is Lawrie - young, dynamic, brought many new fans to the Jays

[shortstop]

well, it's clear with this years attendance #'s that it not only will take a team with talent/potential ie. household names but also winning/real shot at competing playoffs...the #'s will come back imo if they are legitimately competing for a playoff spot and especially a division title...

 

no doubt many on this board are skeptical this team can pull it off & I think most casual fans are skeptical also, and this was before the winning steak let alone right now...

[saskjayfan]

It would be stupid..... young dynamic players put more bums in the seats then boring old veterans..... look at Dickey, the 'proven' pitcher.... no one wants to watch his gimmicky pitching anymore

 

Prime example is Lawrie - young, dynamic, brought many new fans to the Jays

 

The only thing that puts butts in the seats is winning...young old doesn't matter......I'll watch dickey all day long if he throws 7 shutout innings every start like he did last start. The problem is he hasn't done that enough lately. You think people have had a hard time watching Buehrle to this point in the season. That out of shape dog loving soft tossing oldie is one of my favourite players this year, because he's playing well.

[SAAviour]

It would be stupid..... young dynamic players put more bums in the seats then boring old veterans..... look at Dickey, the 'proven' pitcher.... no one wants to watch his gimmicky pitching anymore

 

Prime example is Lawrie - young, dynamic, brought many new fans to the Jays

 

This is very true, a lot of fans/media/bloggers always say who cares if he is Canadian, which is partially correct. But the benefit of a good Canadian player for drawing casual fans and developing new fans is huge and why we should keep a guy like Pompey and cross our fingers. When a dad tells his 10 year old son while at the game that the next guy up is Canadian and went to the school down the road from his school, that 10 year old suddenly starts to truly dream he could be a blue jay and starts watching more intently. Plus casual fans like to cheer for home grown talent.

[GeorgiaPeach]

It would be stupid..... young dynamic players put more bums in the seats then boring old veterans..... look at Dickey, the 'proven' pitcher.... no one wants to watch his gimmicky pitching anymore

 

Prime example is Lawrie - young, dynamic, brought many new fans to the Jays

 

It's typical 2014 society. Give me what I want right now and I'll cry and complain that it was someone else's fault when my future is f***ed a year or two from now.

 

Translated into 2014 Blue Jays fans minds:

 

Alex better empty the farm for Utley, Cliff Lee and Ryan Howard. I don't care if we have to pay their full salaries, get them here.

 

Then two years from now when we have one draft under our belts, no farm, everyone's retired or off to free agency and the Jays suck, those same fans who sat arm in arm with Beeston lapping at the tit of a geriatric s***, POS old expensive garbage team are now livid at Anthopoulos for making those trades.

[GeorgiaPeach]

well, it's clear with this years attendance #'s that it not only will take a team with talent/potential ie. household names but also winning/real shot at competing playoffs...the #'s will come back imo if they are legitimately competing for a playoff spot and especially a division title...

 

no doubt many on this board are skeptical this team can pull it off & I think most casual fans are skeptical also, and this was before the winning steak let alone right now...

 

Household names? How about going out and getting good players instead.

 

Because right now there are some household names being thrown around as trade targets that I would piss on if they weren't on fire.

[GeorgiaPeach]

This is very true, a lot of fans/media/bloggers always say who cares if he is Canadian, which is partially correct. But the benefit of a good Canadian player for drawing casual fans and developing new fans is huge and why we should keep a guy like Pompey and cross our fingers. When a dad tells his 10 year old son while at the game that the next guy up is Canadian and went to the school down the road from his school, that 10 year old suddenly starts to truly dream he could be a blue jay and starts watching more intently. Plus casual fans like to cheer for home grown talent.

 

It's a balancing act. You bring on too many Canadians to push on fans and drum up local interest and the team starts to suck.

[TheHurl]

The only thing that puts butts in the seats is winning...young old doesn't matter......I'll watch dickey all day long if he throws 7 shutout innings every start like he did last start. The problem is he hasn't done that enough lately. You think people have had a hard time watching Buehrle to this point in the season. That out of shape dog loving soft tossing oldie is one of my favourite players this year, because he's playing well.

 

so the 2013 pre-season hype didn't sell the most season tickets they have sold since 1995? It is such a fallacy that winning sells tickets, like the first place Jays team in June sold no more tickets than the last place team of June the year before. The Yankees had to make the playoffs 6 or 7 straight seasons before they became the number 1 attended team. Will the Jays being in a pennant race help with ticket sales in September...yep. But it barely makes a dent in June, July and even August. Would the Jays making the playoffs this year help with season ticket sales next year...maybe slightly but probably less than signing a star player. Baseball is so much different than other sports that have so many fewer games. I'm not saying that the Jays winning won't have some sort of positive impact on the city as I was here in the 90's when many bar had the Jays games on, even during non-Leafs playoff hockey was on. But one winning season is not going to bring back that kind of buzz. Sustained winning will. Got to start with one...I understand that but not having back up plans if the team doesn't make the playoffs and continuing to increase the payroll for minor/no improvements is a disaster ready to happen. If only someone talked about that in 2013 without being called negative.

[KingKat]

It's typical 2014 society. Give me what I want right now and I'll cry and complain that it was someone else's fault when my future is f***ed a year or two from now.

 

Translated into 2014 Blue Jays fans minds:

 

Alex better empty the farm for Utley, Cliff Lee and Ryan Howard. I don't care if we have to pay their full salaries, get them here.

 

Then two years from now when we have one draft under our belts, no farm, everyone's retired or off to free agency and the Jays suck, those same fans who sat arm in arm with Beeston lapping at the tit of a geriatric s***, POS old expensive garbage team are now livid at Anthopoulos for making those trades.

 

The Jays are going to suck regardless in two years and it will be worse knowing that they didn't go for it when they were actually somewhat close. The Jays have some young pitching, they have a few prospects at key defensive positions who along with Lawrie could help with run prevention but they have nothing ressembling a future offensive core. There is no one in the system with the upside of a middle order bat so you can't even wish cast a new lineup like you can with the pitching. What the Jays will have in two years is some payroll flexibilty to work around Reyes and his albatross contract and a laundry list of needs. In the short term the Jays are competitive but in the long term they will have to compete with a Boston team that has a much better minor league system and more payroll to work with to boot. I know you'd like to see a sustained winner and I don't disagree with you but any hopes of doing that were burned the day AA made the Marlins trade. AA made his bed that day and he has to lie in it. He put his money on the short term and for that to work out he has to double down on it. The Jays pitching won't always be this stable, the opposition won't always be this weak. This team is hardly ideal but it may nonetheless represent the best shot AA's ever going to get.

[GeorgiaPeach]

The Jays are going to suck regardless in two years and it will be worse knowing that they didn't go for it when they were actually somewhat close. The Jays have some young pitching, they have a few prospects at key defensive positions who along with Lawrie could help with run prevention but they have nothing ressembling a future offensive core. There is no one in the system with the upside of a middle order bat so you can't even wish cast a new lineup like you can with the pitching. What the Jays will have in two years is some payroll flexibilty to work around Reyes and his albatross contract and a laundry list of needs. In the short term the Jays are competitive but in the long term they will have to compete with a Boston team that has a much better minor league system and more payroll to work with to boot. I know you'd like to see a sustained winner and I don't disagree with you but any hopes of doing that were burned the day AA made the Marlins trade. AA made his bed that day and he has to lie in it. He put his money on the short term and for that to work out he has to double down on it. The Jays pitching won't always be this stable, the opposition won't always be this weak. This team is hardly ideal but it may nonetheless represent the best shot AA's ever going to get.

 

Why does it always come across that fans are so averse to moving one of Bautista or Edwin? They can't even fathom the thought of moving one of them. They would rather let them walk off to free agency opposed to trading them.

 

Moving one of Jose or Edwin would bring a much bigger return than what Samardzija just netted (Russell, McKinney + a smidge of Straily) agree? And the 10-14m owed to either JB or EE could be used to address immediate deficiencies. To me a trade bringing back way more than Samardzija's return, just opened up a window of years instead of hey we have JB or Edwin for 2 years and when they're gone things look like s***. So let's twiddle our thumbs and wait for things to collapse.

[shortstop]

GP, reminds me of what I read about the Tulowitzki situation...Rockies will not trade him and a big reason is the message it would send to the fanbase...

 

right or wrong, the perception often has overriding priority than "best interests"...

 

then again, depending on whose perspective your looking at it from, getting perception right can be argued to be in the "best interests"...

[Governator]

Why does it always come across that fans are so averse to moving one of Bautista or Edwin? They can't even fathom the thought of moving one of them. They would rather let them walk off to free agency opposed to trading them.

 

Moving one of Jose or Edwin would bring a much bigger return than what Samardzija just netted (Russell, McKinney + a smidge of Straily) agree? And the 10-14m owed to either JB or EE could be used to address immediate deficiencies. To me a trade bringing back way more than Samardzija's return, just opened up a window of years instead of hey we have JB or Edwin for 2 years and when they're gone things look like s***. So let's twiddle our thumbs and wait for things to collapse.

 

Trading JoeyBats and/or EE right now to stabilize the future would be a big whiff for the owners and casual fanbase (which factors in to their marketing line). Maybe by next year's deadline depending how the year goes but the Jays need to be a playoff team now with this core for any of these last investments to be seen as worthy from owners. Not to mention to want to invest again in the future. Trading away millions of dollars of invested money which came with the purpose of contending by next year would be an awfully long winded ROI to load up the farm at this stage.

[o2cui2i]

It's typical 2014 society. Give me what I want right now and I'll cry and complain that it was someone else's fault when my future is f***ed a year or two from now.

 

Translated into 2014 Blue Jays fans minds:

 

Alex better empty the farm for Utley, Cliff Lee and Ryan Howard. I don't care if we have to pay their full salaries, get them here.

 

Then two years from now when we have one draft under our belts, no farm, everyone's retired or off to free agency and the Jays suck, those same fans who sat arm in arm with Beeston lapping at the tit of a geriatric s***, POS old expensive garbage team are now livid at Anthopoulos for making those trades.

 

jays have had the same glaring needs staring them in the face for a few years now. Some times you need to move people out and bring in a better replacement. I'm just not sure what we could get in return for Alex Andhisfloppyass and Beeston's hair. they both however need to go and for the love of all that is right in the world, get in some people who know something about baseball???

[TheHurl]

Why does it always come across that fans are so averse to moving one of Bautista or Edwin? They can't even fathom the thought of moving one of them. They would rather let them walk off to free agency opposed to trading them.

 

Moving one of Jose or Edwin would bring a much bigger return than what Samardzija just netted (Russell, McKinney + a smidge of Straily) agree? And the 10-14m owed to either JB or EE could be used to address immediate deficiencies. To me a trade bringing back way more than Samardzija's return, just opened up a window of years instead of hey we have JB or Edwin for 2 years and when they're gone things look like s***. So let's twiddle our thumbs and wait for things to collapse.

 

We have talked about this for years now, it's very dangerous to give Jays fans an large increase in payroll. Outside of another complete disaster last place season and a change in Management it is going to be really tough to do anything but continue to increase payroll. There are markets where it is acceptable to continually re-tool and others where you can't without adversely affect the bottom line. Mind you the Cubs are doing it and that was a market where they always said it wouldn't be acceptable. Mind you I'm sure they have plenty of fans that are saying "prospects fail all the time, we need proven major league players".

[shortstop]

hurl, the cynic in me says Valentine was brought in to Boston to crash that ship to sell the fanbase on "rebuilding"...

 

or perhaps brought in with the hope his personality/approach would help crash that ship...

[o2cui2i]

Why does it always come across that fans are so averse to moving one of Bautista or Edwin? They can't even fathom the thought of moving one of them. They would rather let them walk off to free agency opposed to trading them.

 

Moving one of Jose or Edwin would bring a much bigger return than what Samardzija just netted (Russell, McKinney + a smidge of Straily) agree? And the 10-14m owed to either JB or EE could be used to address immediate deficiencies. To me a trade bringing back way more than Samardzija's return, just opened up a window of years instead of hey we have JB or Edwin for 2 years and when they're gone things look like s***. So let's twiddle our thumbs and wait for things to collapse.

 

AA is holding on for dear life. I dont think a total rebuild is needed, but I think selling Jose at the deadline might help the team for a good while going forward. this might be the last year the jays can get an over pay for Jose. Same goes for Ed as long as they dont trade them to AL east

[CHRIS]

Why does it always come across that fans are so averse to moving one of Bautista or Edwin? They can't even fathom the thought of moving one of them. They would rather let them walk off to free agency opposed to trading them.

 

Probably because getting value for these deals is very difficult to do. I think a lot of people underestimate how good these guys are and how good their contracts are. If the goal is to win, and I hope we can all agree that it is, these are two vital pieces. The problem with this team isn't that they're hanging on to Bautista and Edwin, it's that they've supplemented them with less than ideal pieces, especially value wise.

 

I know a lot of people dream of the kind of talent that elite players can bring back in deals, but if you don't have the management team in place to correctly identify talent (which we don't; an altogether different problem) than what's the point of trading known elite talent for prospects? To be honest, I'd rather the Jays hang on to these guys and try to win, than offer them up for another organization's "track stars", whatever that means.