Beginning of the end

[Candy Maldonado]

If you want to follow a team I would follow the Oakland A's. They have knocked on the world series door a few years in a row now and those trades have sealed the world series deal for them this year. Jays are not close to a world series calibre team this year and at the point in time not even a wild card contender

 

Does this mean you are leaving? Please say yes.

[JugglingPitches]

I have no faith in this front office any more. I don't know if it's AA, Beeston, or Rogers, but whoever it is, they are missing a glorious opportunity to rule the AL East for 2-3 years because they couldn't go out and get a pitcher in the off season, they didn't bother to add real depth to the lineup, and they can't work out a trade for a second baseman. The Jays right now are half pregnant. Unwilling to trade their prospects, unwilling to sell off veterans. Either we are going for it or we're not, if you're in between you may as well fold your cards and leave the table.

[CHRIS]

The Jays right now are half pregnant. Unwilling to trade their prospects, unwilling to sell off veterans. Either we are going for it or we're not, if you're in between you may as well fold your cards and leave the table.

 

Not sure what they're waiting for exactly. I get the feeling that they thought they could forgo bolstering the team in the offseason by hoping that someone like Goins would step up and somehow become a useful player, and hoping that they could avoid as many injuries as they've ended up having.

 

Basically, the baseball equivalent of hiding under a pile of coats and hoping that everything just works out.

[shortstop]

it was just a strange offseason with AA coming out & flatly stating starting pitching was the focus & then back tracking & doing nothing and spending $4M over 2 years on Navarro...

 

then with what came out of the Santana debacle and how players were willing to create some $$ room...

 

it all points to what Boras said in February: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/25/agent-scott-boras-wants-to-see-blue-jays-win

 

"Boras said that the Jays team salary is $132.6 million for this year, with commitments of $96.2 million in 2015 and $27.6 million in 2016.

 

“They’re roughly $140 million this year and the next two years, why not back load contracts? Rogers needs to give its baseball people flexibility. Don’t wait until 2015.”

 

 

 

self-interest of Boras aside, he suggested Drew at 2nd, switch hitting Morales DH, trade Lind for a starting pitcher...and to backload the contracts of Drew/Morales...

 

 

in hindsight, was he right on all fronts?

[Governator]

The sad thing is most people saw this coming but were clouded by wins and watching division rivals lose. At the back of our minds everyone knew it wasn't a good idea to rely so much on players like Francisco & Tolleson to continue playing over their heads and that a major regression was bound to happen. Problem was, we had no other options thanks to management's fruitless off season. The only move is to pray the team is within contention mid-late July when they can try to patch it up.

 

The toughest part is watching 6 straight weeks of .400 ball while our starting pitching has continue to perform above expectations. Throw in some key injuries to our only performing offensive players and at this moment, July needs a miracle to turn things around. If they can't play at least .500 ball the rest of the month and there is no saving face at the deadline, than it wouldn't surprise me if they fire sell.

[Convo]

We are starting to look like the Tigers looked like earlier this season when we swept them. So I guess the Tigers started a massive rebuild ? Oh wait, they turned it around once their schedule got easier. Can our schedule ever get easier in the "super strong AL East" ? I glanced a little, starting with Tampa on the road the rest of our schedule looks pretty easy compared to what we've had.

 

But you know what, write them off completely, that's what people do on this site. And please, every single poster who writes them off completely and wants a rebuild ( which is a ridiculous concept btw at this point ), do not come back later in the season and start looking at their chances again. You wrote them off, own it.

 

Look, the reality is this team is a contender, they got several concurrent injuries that are only really an issue because AA did nothing to respond. Injuries to our rotation would have been more fatal, we've done well in this regard, even have depth coming back soon. If we fail to contend, it's not because we didn't have the roster, the luck, or any injury killed us. It is because management failed to respond with urgency to the teams weaknesses ( we did the same thing in 2013 ). There are no excuses for AA anymore, our pitching has been more then adequate ( quite good actually ), attendance is trending up, our weaknesses are isolated and obvious. We even have a few new prospects in play.

 

AA seems incompetant, I wanted him fired end of last season. When Lawrie got hurt long term ( as Reyes did last year ), he needed to be replaced via trade. This year, that was a spot we had zero depth, so even more reason to do a move. He did nothing, preferring to juggle fringe ML players that are a long shot at best to be a solution. Francisco was a lucky move, but it's rather obvious why he's only a passable cog on our team. Every second game we lose now is probably a throw away because AA failed to act. Games that would have improved our chances later. But we aren't out of anything. Is AA stupid enough to do nothing the whole month ? Because in that case I agree we are in trouble. That's the one aspect I can't forecast, can the man act in the appropriate fashion ? Yankees have already started making moves and they are behind us in the standings.

 

Why do you use your alt account Pinkfloid to Thank your own posts? Also why do you type so much, nobody wants to read all this junk.

[Convo]

In all seriousness, you have recently been perhaps the worst poster on here who takes themselves seriously ( ignoring the obvious trolls and Jays haters ). Try working on your content instead, being criticized by you is motivating, it tells me I'm doing things right.

 

1) Don't care what you think 2) Not here to garner any any particular reputation

[Convo]

Good. Now bugger off and focus on your own posts then, and I don't have two accounts.

 

Why do both aliases have the same IP then?

[shortstop]

CHP,

 

Horrible most likely bc of staying out so long...

 

But does anyone wonder? Drew at 2b, morales as DH & Lind traded for a pitcher...that surely would look great right now...

 

Hindsight is 20/20 but Boras's recommendation is exactly what this team needed - Atleast that's how I view it...

[SAAviour]

@gregorMLB: Gibbons when asked if he sees a light at the end of the tunnel based on anything players are showing him on the field: "No." #BlueJays

 

I love gibbons, but might be time to send a message and let the players know they cost a man his job.

[comeon sense]

If they stick with this same lineup,it will be beginning of end.Why ,oh why wont they go back to what was working,and sit Rasmus.

We do not win with him in the lineup,unless he hits ,and he has no consistency.gose has consistency.....SPEED!

They need to add more speed.They have enough power

23-10 without Rasmus,and gose batting 9th,and Pillar was here as well as Kratz.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Why do you use your alt account Pinkfloid to Thank your own posts? Also why do you type so much, nobody wants to read all this junk.

I already knew CHP was pathetic, but liking his own posts is a new low.

[wilko]

[sh3156]

Let's go back to off season 2011. Do you guys remember?

 

That was when Rogers first made some money available. AA had the possibility of getting Darvish. He failed.

 

Eventually he traded two blue chip prospects for Dickey and made a poor deal with the marlins

 

Darvish >>>>> dickey + burleh

 

AA has failed since

[G-Snarls]

Let's go back to off season 2011. Do you guys remember?

 

That was when Rogers first made some money available. AA had the possibility of getting Darvish. He failed.

 

Eventually he traded two blue chip prospects for Dickey and made a poor deal with the marlins

 

Darvish >>>>> dickey + burleh

 

AA has failed since

 

For fear of rehashing

 

I'm actually still OK with the Marlins trade. Not the results but the premise. Johnson and Bonifacio and Alvarez make it look way worse in retrospect of course. But I have no problem that he did the trade.

 

We should have kept Synd and TDA or traded them for someone better though

 

Also the failure to land second tier free agents like Sanchez and Santana also sucks and meant he felt obliged to trade for Dickey. Pretty major fail on all fronts.

 

I'm also pissed that all he did this off season was improve catcher. Not 2B or the starting rotation. Another fail.

[KingKat]

For fear of rehashing

 

I'm actually still OK with the Marlins trade. Not the results but the premise. Johnson and Bonifacio and Alvarez make it look way worse in retrospect of course. But I have no problem that he did the trade.

 

We should have kept Synd and TDA or traded them for someone better though

 

Also the failure to land second tier free agents like Sanchez and Santana also sucks and meant he felt obliged to trade for Dickey. Pretty major fail on all fronts.

 

I'm also pissed that all he did this off season was improve catcher. Not 2B or the starting rotation. Another fail.

 

I actually think the Dickey deal was a better deal on paper than the Marlins trade. At least Dickey had a chance to outperform what he was going to be paid. The Marlins trade was at best a wash in terms of the expected performance vis-à-vis salary commitment and that's before you even factor in whatever Escobar, Desclafani, Marisnick and Alavarez would provide in terms of value.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Let's go back to off season 2011. Do you guys remember?

 

That was when Rogers first made some money available. AA had the possibility of getting Darvish. He failed.

 

Eventually he traded two blue chip prospects for Dickey and made a poor deal with the marlins

 

Darvish >>>>> dickey + burleh

 

AA has failed since

The Napoli trade is where he really failed. I wanted him fired then, but he's clung on long enough to deliver two more franchise-destroying trades.

[G-Snarls]

I actually think the Dickey deal was a better deal on paper than the Marlins trade. At least Dickey had a chance to outperform what he was going to be paid. The Marlins trade was at best a wash in terms of the expected performance vis-à-vis salary commitment and that's before you even factor in whatever Escobar, Desclafani, Marisnick and Alavarez would provide in terms of value.

 

Yes. The value proposition of the Marlins trade was never good. But the talent infusion looked incredible. JJ and Boni wrecked the dream though.

[KingKat]

Yes. The value proposition of the Marlins trade was never good. But the talent infusion looked incredible. JJ and Boni wrecked the dream though.

 

It was an extremely risky trade. Jays absolutely had to win that year to make it worth it but there was definitely a chance that that would happen. I think even the harshest critic admitted as much it was just a question of was the probablity worth the risk? They almost had to do something like the Dickey trade to increase their chances of it working out and they proabaly should have traded Sanchez too. You shouldn't go all in ever if you can avoid it but if you're crazy enough to do it, you can't half-ass it.

[JFD]

how have you avoided the hammer for so long? Go back to that peon forum and have at it with bj_knee_pads and co, moron.

 

shut up spanky *slap, slap* *slap, slap, slap*

 

shut up spanky *slap, slap* *slap, slap, slap*

 

shut up spanky *slap, slap* *slap, slap, slap*

[Anemic0ffense]

Tolleson batting in the 2 hole tonight. Gibby is either drunk, doesn't care, or both.

[Candy Maldonado]

All star lineup

[Anemic0ffense]

Tolleson batting second lol

 

That's a horrifying lineup

 

The Toronto Bisons

[Candy Maldonado]

[wilko]

All star lineup

 

 

No gif in the world can explain the anger with that lineup. I'm forced to use my words.

[DH12]

The Jays bench is so weak for the Jays to have any hope they needed an almost injury free season. They didn't get that

[saskjayfan]

The Jays bench is so weak for the Jays to have any hope they needed an almost injury free season. They didn't get that

 

The orioles lost wieters for the year and machado missed a month...but they've been mostly healthy and they only have a 4 game lead on the jays.

 

The Jays lost Janssen for a month and half, izzy for the year, morrow for the year, lindy for a month and a half, lawrie for a month, Colby for a month, EE for a month, cecil for 3 weeks, Reyes for 3 weeks, jose for games.

 

We've had significant injuries...but not catastrophic like Texas. There's nothing you can do if you get too many injuries...few teams have the depth to overcome significant injuries to several major players.

 

If our depth is so bad, how are we 2.5 games out of the wild card and 4 games out of the division lead....we're still right there.

[jaysfan2014]

The orioles lost wieters for the year and machado missed a month...but they've been mostly healthy and they only have a 4 game lead on the jays.

 

The Jays lost Janssen for a month and half, izzy for the year, morrow for the year, lindy for a month and a half, lawrie for a month, Colby for a month, EE for a month, cecil for 3 weeks, Reyes for 3 weeks, jose for games.

 

We've had significant injuries...but not catastrophic like Texas. There's nothing you can do if you get too many injuries...few teams have the depth to overcome significant injuries to several major players.

 

If our depth is so bad, how are we 2.5 games out of the wild card and 4 games out of the division lead....we're still right there.

 

We also benefit from having one of the weakest schedules post All-Star break, while the Mariners and Orioles face the most difficult. We're done with the Angels and A's.

 

We do face the O's, Yankees and Red Sox in the 2nd half a lot, Boston and Baltimore, we've played well against this year, although we've struggled with the Yankees on the road. However, with Tanaka out, it's anybody's guess what happens with the Yankees. We also have games with Tampa.. but does anyone even believe Price, Zobrist, etc. will even be there next time we see them? And of course, Boston is a lost cause for 2014, and will likely start selling within the next week or two.

 

However, it is important the Jays get healthy and add a bat, either an INF or a CF. Another pitcher would be nice as well.

[Frenchsoup]

If i am AA i call the cubs about Barney and offer them Drabek. Platoon barney and kawa, tolleson and fransisco.

[BigCecil]

The orioles lost wieters for the year and machado missed a month...but they've been mostly healthy and they only have a 4 game lead on the jays.

 

The Jays lost Janssen for a month and half, izzy for the year, morrow for the year, lindy for a month and a half, lawrie for a month, Colby for a month, EE for a month, cecil for 3 weeks, Reyes for 3 weeks, jose for games.

 

We've had significant injuries...but not catastrophic like Texas. There's nothing you can do if you get too many injuries...few teams have the depth to overcome significant injuries to several major players.

 

If our depth is so bad, how are we 2.5 games out of the wild card and 4 games out of the division lead....we're still right there.

 

Fair post...the reality is you need some plain luck on DL front to win.

 

Our core line up in 92 and 93 was freakishly healthy. Players like Molitor who had many injury issues missed no time. IMO the Jays 2014 have been freakishly unlucky, but not as bad as Rangers.