Beginning of the end

[Angrioter]

The lack of depth on this roster is really showing. Cause for legitimate concern.

 

AA running the things as if he were a fantasy owner. If he need something he go to waivers and pick it

[leaffie]

Well who will buy reyes?

[eastcoastjaysfan]

What is that apologist POS Wilner saying now?

[kgm1]

The biggest culprit in my opinion is the lack of moves in the offseason, especially at 2B and Lind platoon partner.

 

AA gambled in the offseason and lost; he thought he could hope for the best case scenario out of 2B, without considering that other areas, like the bullpen, might get worse, IMO.

 

To be honest, at this point, I'd almost rather face Shark than a Brad Mills type guy, because at least in brings Lind and Rasmus back into play offensively.

 

He didn't have any choice but to gamble since he had no money to play with and that was the biggest downfall. BTS pointed this out after the trades that we would be hamstrung in 2014 and he was right on.

Personally I blame the Beest and Rogers. Why add all that and go all in then put on the brakes. Still Infante cost 8 mil/24, I'm sure you could get Prado and 3 mil/year for a b prospect. Now is Rogers willing to add that much ?

[S33n]

The ship is taking on water at an alarming rate.

[SAAviour]

If we are 10 games out of it a week before the deadline, you guys comfortable selling the team?

 

If we fall to 10 games out by July 31st I'm comfortable trading anyone, and if don't sell something off it would be considered a complete failure on managements part.

[Olerud363]

I dont look forward to a rebuild. A rebuild could destroy baseball in this city.

 

Already people in Toronto are making fun of the Jays, next time Jays are leading at the end of June, people just wont believe

 

?? This is silly. Some people didn't believe this time because the team was flawed. 30 something injury prone expensive guys with a staff led by two junk ballers.

 

If they ever develop a good young team. People would believe.

 

This team had to have everything go perfect. When they didn't people kinda new the team didn't have the depth and youth to survive any bad luck or serious injuries.

[TheHurl]

The lack of depth on this roster is really showing. Cause for legitimate concern.

 

yep last year it was pitching depth by keeping so many relievers around and having all those spots used up for pitchers out for the season...this year it was offense. No one expects injury replacements to match a Lawrie, EE or Bautista when out...but at least they should have some sort of role on the team (defensively, handedness split, multiple positions) all most smart fans asked for was a couple win starting 2B to push Macier into that multi position role and Goins to the minors where he can maybe add some semblance of a hit tool. Handedness wasn't addressed well having Francisco, Lind and Rasmus not being able to hit lefties and Gose as one of the replacements not able to hit them either. Tolleson has been a handedness surprise but he'd have more value to this team as a depth guy if we had a real 2B.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Sadly this is the beginning of the end for the Jays this year. Lack of trade action at deadline and injuries are culprits. I have had to readjust my prediction for the Jays they will not have enough for a wild card this year.

 

I'm glad my hopes weren't as high as yours.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You simply cannot count on these 9 guys being healthy at the same time for any significant period of time. They just have too many guys with a checkered injury history and low and behold, history is repeating itself.

 

And every team has injuries, we can stop using that as a reason why the Jays don't make the playoffs.

[ElNik2013]

And every team has injuries, we can stop using that as a reason why the Jays don't make the playoffs.

 

 

I don't know that every team has several of their starting 9 injured or walking wounded at the same time and still make the playoffs. Maybe it happens once in a while, but I doubt it's a regular occurrence.

 

 

Is it a flawed team? Yes. However, I do cut them some slack for the injuries, especially when they happen at the same time.

 

 

We'll see what happens.

[o2cui2i]

yep last year it was pitching depth by keeping so many relievers around and having all those spots used up for pitchers out for the season...this year it was offense. No one expects injury replacements to match a Lawrie, EE or Bautista when out...but at least they should have some sort of role on the team (defensively, handedness split, multiple positions) all most smart fans asked for was a couple win starting 2B to push Macier into that multi position role and Goins to the minors where he can maybe add some semblance of a hit tool. Handedness wasn't addressed well having Francisco, Lind and Rasmus not being able to hit lefties and Gose as one of the replacements not able to hit them either. Tolleson has been a handedness surprise but he'd have more value to this team as a depth guy if we had a real 2B.

 

A quality second base that hits right and a right handed vet bat off the bench was what really needed to be done in the off season. not a huge shopping list. wonder if AA is glad he decided to fix things internally.

 

I also wonder how much say AA actually has now. he's been M.I.A. and not even making his regular excuse tour in the media. He's just a no show.

 

I really wonder if Beeston is in complete control from behind the scenes....

[ElNik2013]

A quality second base that hits right and a right handed vet bat off the bench was what really needed to be done in the off season. not a huge shopping list. wonder if AA is glad he decided to fix things internally.

 

I also wonder how much say AA actually has now. he's been M.I.A. and not even making his regular excuse tour in the media. He's just a no show.

 

I really wonder if Beeston is in complete control from behind the scenes....

 

 

Funny you mention this because I've been wondering the same thing. Who knows really, but I've speculated that the new Rogers head honcho may have hired a consultant to review The Beest and Aa's job and may have put a freeze on major moves or that they be reviewed by the consultant...just my mind at work you know.

[CJ-Freeway]

And every team has injuries, we can stop using that as a reason why the Jays don't make the playoffs.

 

Yes but there are different levels of injuries... for example, take a look at the Rangers.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Not a negative thread it's just reality. There are simply too many holes to fill in trades to make them competitive now, due not to injuries and the already present weak starting pitching and weak bullpen. Difficult to accept but it's reality. In comparison look at Oakland, they will likely win the world series this year because all they had to do was straighten their already decent pitching staff. That has put them over the top. AA likely didn't make a move for pitching because he knows just adressing starting pitching won't be enough this year and would cost them too much

 

Why have you waited for 3+ months to post this crap?

 

The team had glaring holes before the season started, yet you rode the wave like the s*** fan you are and all the other idiots that need to keep their yaps shut.

[kgm1]

Not a negative thread it's just reality. There are simply too many holes to fill in trades to make them competitive now, due not to injuries and the already present weak starting pitching and weak bullpen. Difficult to accept but it's reality. In comparison look at Oakland, they will likely win the world series this year because all they had to do was straighten their already decent pitching staff. That has put them over the top. AA likely didn't make a move for pitching because he knows just adressing starting pitching won't be enough this year and would cost them too much

 

Have you looked at the O,s schedule for July . Sure we have some crippling injuries but in this mediocre division all we have to do is stay close till we get some bats back and this team can go on a run. O's are about to start 17 of 20 games against teams that are as good or better than them.

[GeorgiaPeach]

They need a trade definitely, and if it doesn't come, then it is on AA's head and he will probably pay with his job.

 

Hopefully its not a trade like the A's just made.

[ElNik2013]

Hopefully its not a trade like the A's just made.

 

 

I think it's clear they won't make a blockbuster. I think they know they need to shore up the IF and bench. I think they'll try to patch things up and remain close to a playoff spot and hope the injured come back and help the team go on another tear.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I dont look forward to a rebuild. A rebuild could destroy baseball in this city.

 

Already people in Toronto are making fun of the Jays, next time Jays are leading at the end of June, people just wont believe

 

Re-tool?

 

Why can't pieces be moved off individually and gradually?

[kgm1]

Hopefully its not a trade like the A's just made.

 

God forbid AA panics like some on this board and starts dealing away the future. hell I want to see playoff ball in TO too but not at the cost of becoming the next Phillies.

[GeorgiaPeach]

There are trade chips on this team that could be traded to help strengthen this club long term. I know AA had his whole plan and his whole window, but it's time to reevaluate things. Trade JB for a top 20 prospect and focus on a rebuild with 4-5 stud YOUNG players as your core. You need to know when to buy, but you damn sure need to know when to sell. I know making certain trades is going to be a tough pill to swallow for people who like using stats and projections to determine if we'll make the playoffs but it's necessary.

 

If not this team will be hovering around .500 with a 130m+ payroll for quite a while until something is done. Always on the cusp, but never actually quite there just because the payroll allows this team to not suck entirely.

 

If Samrdzija's playing time with the A's netted a top 10'ish prospect + a little then Bautista should easily net more than a Top 20 prospect.

 

I agree with selling if the team isn't buying or contending. For petesakes start movingg old pieces.

[GeorgiaPeach]

If we are 10 games out of it a week before the deadline, you guys comfortable selling the team?

 

There's easily pieces that could be sold for tremendous hauls and I wouldn't miss the player leaving. Bautista and Edwin included.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't know that every team has several of their starting 9 injured or walking wounded at the same time and still make the playoffs. Maybe it happens once in a while, but I doubt it's a regular occurrence.

 

 

Is it a flawed team? Yes. However, I do cut them some slack for the injuries, especially when they happen at the same time.

 

 

We'll see what happens.

 

As long as I was on this forum and the other, there's always been a strong link to the Jays failure on injuries. I agree a couple of years the team was decimated by injuries, but sometimes people need to put the excuse in their back pocket.

 

It's like the WBC excuse for last years failure, lame.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yes but there are different levels of injuries... for example, take a look at the Rangers.

 

I agree the Rangers are killed by injuries this year.

 

But for the past 7+ years I've had to listen to the forum pull out the injury excuse card, every single year. I'm sorry, but before the year started the Jays didn't have a playoff team on paper. We didn't have a 2B, Navarro is weak, the bench is weak, the rotation wasn't a playoff worthy rotation.....but let's use the injury excuse why the Jays aren't going to make the playoffs......again.

[shortstop]

Elk, I think that's the thinking of the FO - try to stay close as possible, say the team tried & competed & let's do it all again next year...

 

They do not want nor do Rogers IMO want a massive rebuild - treadmill & perception of competitive is fine IMO with Rogers & thus the FO

[ElNik2013]

As long as I was on this forum and the other, there's always been a strong link to the Jays failure on injuries. I agree a couple of years the team was decimated by injuries, but sometimes people need to put the excuse in their back pocket.

 

It's like the WBC excuse for last years failure, lame.

 

 

That's fine by me, we all knew the team has holes and once injuries hit, they'd be exposed. They also started to struggle before the injuries hit them really hard this year so it is what it is.

[Nabru]

It's not so much the injuries that are the excuse, but the lack of preparation when it is evident that several of your key players have spent a lot of time on the DL in the past.

 

Allocated too many dollars to these types and relied n them to be your go to guys, then there's nothing left when history repeats itself mid season.

 

Same old.

[HERPDERP]

It's not so much the injuries that are the excuse, but the lack of preparation when it is evident that several of your key players have spent a lot of time on the DL in the past.

 

Allocated too many dollars to these types and relied n them to be your go to guys, then there's nothing left when history repeats itself mid season.

 

Same old.

 

Best to expand on preparation, because nagging injuries are nagging injuries and you can't really avoid them. Unless we have fat players in terrible condition always breaking down, then I have a problem. But Navarro isn't injured.

[DH12]

Why have you waited for 3+ months to post this crap?

 

The team had glaring holes before the season started, yet you rode the wave like the s*** fan you are and all the other idiots that need to keep their yaps shut.

 

Because the situation has changed so drastically that's why. Key injuries are taking place, the bullpen is not performing like last year, and they failed to take necessary trade action to improve starting pitching. I had them picked at before the season started to get at least a wild card. But now I doubt they will get that

[DH12]

If you want to follow a team I would follow the Oakland A's. They have knocked on the world series door a few years in a row now and those trades have sealed the world series deal for them this year. Jays are not close to a world series calibre team this year and at the point in time not even a wild card contender

 

We are starting to look like the Tigers looked like earlier this season when we swept them. So I guess the Tigers started a massive rebuild ? Oh wait, they turned it around once their schedule got easier. Can our schedule ever get easier in the "super strong AL East" ? I glanced a little, starting with Tampa on the road the rest of our schedule looks pretty easy compared to what we've had.

 

But you know what, write them off completely, that's what people do on this site. And please, every single poster who writes them off completely and wants a rebuild ( which is a ridiculous concept btw at this point ), do not come back later in the season and start looking at their chances again. You wrote them off, own it.

 

Look, the reality is this team is a contender, they got several concurrent injuries that are only really an issue because AA did nothing to respond. Injuries to our rotation would have been more fatal, we've done well in this regard, even have depth coming back soon. If we fail to contend, it's not because we didn't have the roster, the luck, or any injury killed us. It is because management failed to respond with urgency to the teams weaknesses ( we did the same thing in 2013 ). There are no excuses for AA anymore, our pitching has been more then adequate ( quite good actually ), attendance is trending up, our weaknesses are isolated and obvious. We even have a few new prospects in play.

 

AA seems incompetant, I wanted him fired end of last season. When Lawrie got hurt long term ( as Reyes did last year ), he needed to be replaced via trade. This year, that was a spot we had zero depth, so even more reason to do a move. He did nothing, preferring to juggle fringe ML players that are a long shot at best to be a solution. Francisco was a lucky move, but it's rather obvious why he's only a passable cog on our team. Every second game we lose now is probably a throw away because AA failed to act. Games that would have improved our chances later. But we aren't out of anything. Is AA stupid enough to do nothing the whole month ? Because in that case I agree we are in trouble. That's the one aspect I can't forecast, can the man act in the appropriate fashion ? Yankees have already started making moves and they are behind us in the standings.