Marcus Stroman Discussion Thread

[RIPEXPOS]

I posted this before, but might have missed so I will post it again:

 

Stroman employed 2 breaking balls during his start. A low 80s curve (which is the one everyone is raving about that fell off a table to his gloveside), and a high 80s slider (which read as a changeup electronically and was thrown for strikes).

[43211234]

I posted this before, but might have missed so I will post it again:

 

Stroman employed 2 breaking balls during his start. A low 80s curve (which is the one everyone is raving about that fell off a table to his gloveside), and a high 80s slider (which read as a changeup electronically and was thrown for strikes).

 

Seems odd that a slider would read as a changeup by the pitch f/x algorithms. Can I get a link for that info?

[G-Snarls]

I posted this before, but might have missed so I will post it again:

 

Stroman employed 2 breaking balls during his start. A low 80s curve (which is the one everyone is raving about that fell off a table to his gloveside), and a high 80s slider (which read as a changeup electronically and was thrown for strikes).

 

I like that he has a different arsenal than Hutch. Variety in the rotation is probably a good thing?

[RIPEXPOS]

Seems odd that a slider would read as a changeup by the pitch f/x algorithms. Can I get a link for that info?

I could be wrong, I'm guessing as much as anyone, but the best way to identify what a pitch was intended to be is by looking at it's velocity. Sometimes a pitch can be intended to be one thing, and react like an other. I'm trying to guess what the pitch was intended to be, as in, what Stroman would call the pitch.

 

For Stroman, according to pretty much every scouting report, there are 5 pitches he can throw:

 

Fastball- Mid 90s

Cutter- High 80s/Low 90s

Slider- Mid/High 80s

changeup- Mid 80s

Power curve- low 80s

 

The bolded pitches are easily identifiable, Stroman even said it was a curve that was doing the damage, and when you watch the tape you see the nasty pitch we are all raving about was consistently in the low 80s, so it was a curve.

 

The Changeup/Slider/Cutter can be confusing though, since all three sit in the same general range of velocity (and excluding the slider down and out of the zone which he didn't throw much on saturday since his curve was so effective) they all generally have similar type movement and stay in the zone (cutter, change, and slider for a strike).

 

The main reason I am guessing the high 80s pitch for a strike was a slider is that I know historically Stromans slider is his second most used pitch after his fastball, and I know one of the strengths of it is that he is capable of throwing it for strikes. It seems unlikely to me that Stroman wouldn't throw a single slider, so I'm guessing the pitch that read electronically as a changeup (the pitch he historically uses the least of the 5), was in fact his slider being thrown for a strike. And when you watch the tape, that's what it looks like, it bends and moves alot more than a common changeup (look at that horizontal break).

 

So looking back at his Saturday performance, it appears to be Stroman was generally Fastball/Curveball, with some Slider/Cutters mixed in for variety.

[Spoonovic]

Here's a cool article, I read awhile back from the SN Magazine. I can't copy and paste it as it's too long for the PS3, if someone wants to, have at it.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/hes-going-to-be-big/

 

"This is Marcus Stroman. Straight out of New York; playing for his family; burning with desire. An undersized pitcher with wicked stuff who’s been written off more times than he can remember but keeps going. He’s the future of the Toronto Blue Jays and the most exciting prospect the club has had since Roy Halladay. A"

 

Disagree.

[HERPDERP]

"This is Marcus Stroman. Straight out of New York; playing for his family; burning with desire. An undersized pitcher with wicked stuff who’s been written off more times than he can remember but keeps going. He’s the future of the Toronto Blue Jays and the most exciting prospect the club has had since Roy Halladay. A"

 

Disagree.

 

Well I for one was hyped up for Russ f***ing Adams - weren't you?

[Sammy225]

Well I for one was hyped up for Russ f***ing Adams - weren't you?

 

I was excited for David Cooper. The guy was born without a chin and he was still rocketing up through our minor league system. That's commitment right there

[G-Snarls]

I was excited for David Cooper. The guy was born without a chin and he was still rocketing up through our minor league system. That's commitment right there

 

And almost every single one of us was pretty excited about Arencibia. We can't pretend that we weren't.

[Sammy225]

And almost every single one of us was pretty excited about Arencibia. We can't pretend that we weren't.

 

Yup and all were pissed that Cito would not play him regularly...... Maybe Cito was right all along.....

[Orgfiller]

Yup and all were pissed that Cito would not play him regularly...... Maybe Cito was right all along.....

 

You're not the first to suggest this...

[RIPEXPOS]

You're not correct. He doesn't have 5 pitches (virtually every scouting report lists fastball, cutter and slider, with a developing change - none I've read have mentioned a curve ... 5 for 5 without 5 pitches), and you can't tell a pitch by velo alone, especially when you're delving into the world of non-curve, non-4-seam movement pitches, which range from 2-seam to slurve (and all the variants in between, including "cutter" "sinker" and "slider").

 

Stroman can throw that pitch, as most people who throw a slider or a slurve, at different velos with different break. Hell, I could snap off a wildly tailing fastball at my normal velo (I had crazy natural movement and I threw it with more arm velo than a typical 2-seamer), and most would have said I was throwing a slider (now probably a cutter). I could throw it a couple MPH slower than my 2-seamer for a pretty distinct traditional 2 plane slider break. I could slow it down 5+ mph and get dramatic break, live a faster slurve. And I could full-blown slurve it as well, over 10 mph slower than the 2-seamer. Then I could throw the knuckle-slider, with the same arm/hand action as the slider, but a 12-6 break and that had different velos as well.

 

Stroman throws his breaking pitch at different speeds. Most pitchers do. You change depending on your feel for the pitch (and other pitches) that day, and based on what the hitters are reacting to.

 

And if your changeup is in the same velo range as your slider, with similar movement, you're totally effed. You're throwing one of them wrong.

 

He wasn't throwing a curve. You can see from his arm action. And the ball's movement.

 

Not only does he have baby fingers, but his not-even-three-quarters arm slot wouldn't even allow him to deliver a curve. He'd break his arm trying that.

 

If he wasn't throwing a curve, why did he say he was throwing a curve? And it sure as hell looks like a curve...

[Deadpool]

And almost every single one of us was pretty excited about Arencibia. We can't pretend that we weren't.

 

Snider, Lind and Lawrie were all pretty exciting as prospects...

 

There's perhaps an argument to be made that he's the most exciting PITCHING prospect since Halladay (though, Dusty was definitely hyped as "the next Halladay...")

[Spoonovic]

Another great start by Stroman. Had some nasty strikeouts again.

 

I feel like he could have finished the 7th out but I dont think hes thrown 100 pitches in a game yet this season.

[G-Snarls]

Every good start he has is a HUGE deal right now and lessens the need for AA to trade for a starter at the deadline.

[Jaysfan_85]

It'll be really interesting to see if either Hutch or Stro get shut down at some point. Assuming their both healthy and pitching well and the Jays are contenders. A Strasburg situation basically.

[Daniel Labude]

It'll be really interesting to see if either Hutch or Stro get shut down at some point. Assuming their both healthy and pitching well and the Jays are contenders. A Strasburg situation basically.

 

Why?

 

They already said Hutch has no limit and Stroman pretty much does as well since he spent time in the bullpen

[baubau]

Every good start he has is a HUGE deal right now and lessens the need for AA to trade for a starter at the deadline.

 

I disagree with that. I hope AA still goes out and acquires a pitcher. I still do not trust Haap and Dickey. Despite his great start, banking on Buerle alone isn't enough.

[RIPEXPOS]

Definitely most exciting prospect to come up since Lawrie.

[Chappy]

Every good start he has is a HUGE deal right now and lessens the need for AA to trade for a starter at the deadline.

 

Agreed. There is NO rush for a SP right now.

[Bunchedundies]

Stroman could be that missing piece, The next Juan Guzman.

[ElNik2013]

Stroman could be that missing piece, The next Juan Guzman.

 

 

 

For some weird reason I think I've seen this posted before....must be my imagination.

[Bunchedundies]

For some weird reason I think I've seen this posted before....must be my imagination.

 

Stroman the next Juan Guzman.

[BlueJaysGirl]

But then he got crazypantsitis. Is that in Stroman's future? weird coloured fibres coming out of his skin that only he (and his wife) can see?!

 

Was that it? I don't remember him very well, I was pretty young, but I was surprised to hear he's like 4th on the Jays all-time save list, in front of Janssen IIRC.

 

I do remember him being picked up by the Rays near the end of his career, and then when he was cut by them, he showed up at a Jays game at Rogers centre (IIRC) with a Rays jersey on, looking all crazy and talking crazy to people around him. Weird.

[BlueJaysGirl]

Snider, Lind and Lawrie were all pretty exciting as prospects...

 

There's perhaps an argument to be made that he's the most exciting PITCHING prospect since Halladay (though, Dusty was definitely hyped as "the next Halladay...")

 

I thought before the season Stroman would be a bust. But everything I see now tells me that he is not just big-league ready, but I think he can continue this sort of pace all season. He's unflappable, confident, and he has such a repatiore of repeatable pitches. He seems to be confident enough to throw them at any time. And, in the Cardinals game, I don't know if it was all Navarro/staff, but he adjusted so nicely on the 2rd time through the order, changing his pitching strategy.

[Deadpool]

Was that it? I don't remember him very well, I was pretty young, but I was surprised to hear he's like 4th on the Jays all-time save list, in front of Janssen IIRC.

 

I do remember him being picked up by the Rays near the end of his career, and then when he was cut by them, he showed up at a Jays game at Rogers centre (IIRC) with a Rays jersey on, looking all crazy and talking crazy to people around him. Weird.

 

http://www.rense.com/general72/horr.htm

 

Some doctors think it's real, most think it's psychosomatic...

 

Edit: Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) says it's totally delusional...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons

[Fearthedoc]

I'm honestly going to be crushed if we deal Stroman this season. There's too much upside, and I feel like any deal for a rental will end up being an overpay anyway.

[RIPEXPOS]

For some weird reason I think I've seen this posted before....must be my imagination.

 

It's the blue glove.

[BlueJaysGirl]

http://www.rense.com/general72/horr.htm

 

Some doctors think it's real, most think it's psychosomatic...

 

Edit: Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) says it's totally delusional...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons

 

OMG that's freaking awful.

[Spoonovic]

Another good start.

[Buster]

http://www.rense.com/general72/horr.htm

 

Some doctors think it's real, most think it's psychosomatic...

 

Edit: Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge) says it's totally delusional...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons