What to do with Gose when Colby returns?

[G-Snarls]

I would bet my hat that he was in the bottom 3 for regular 1B/DH players in the American League

 

If the hat is the s***** handout from yesterday's game you won't get any takers. LOL.

[RIPEXPOS]

I'd keep Gose over Rasmus, I think he's a better fit for this club. It's no coincidence our run has happened with Gose playing, he complements the rest of the the team better. His speed/range in CF helps make up for Cabrera/Bautista in the corners, and overall our D has been a bit of a sore point so his glove really helps our mediocre pitching staff. He's also built to be hitting 9th, his OBP and speed works perfectly for turning the lineup over. He lacks the pop of Rasmus, but this lineup has more than enough pop, especially with Francisco playing almost regularly. Not to mention his youth being an asset for a kind of aging club.

[Deadpool]

...his OBP and speed works perfectly for turning the lineup over...

 

I'm still not convinced that Gose has turned the corner as far as OBP. He's certainly looked better up there, but he's had some fugly atbats, and we're talking a pretty small sample where he's had a good OBP, while never really putting up a good one before...

[RIPEXPOS]

I'm still not convinced that Gose has turned the corner as far as OBP. He's certainly looked better up there, but he's had some fugly atbats, and we're talking a pretty small sample where he's had a good OBP, while never really putting up a good one before...

 

No doubt he has ugly at bats, but he's always done a pretty good job of getting on base. In AA-AAA since 2011, he's put up an ISO OBP in the .090 range. So even if he only hits .250, he should be able to still get on base at a respectable rate, something in the .330s and he's fine (and through my observations, iso obp while a strange stat, translates from the minors to the bigs almost every time). And that doesn't even count the speed forced errors that he creates that get him on.

 

Bottom line, when I look at the position players/lineup on this team outside of CF (Reyes, Cabrera, Bautista, Lind, Edwin, Francisco, Lawrie, Catcher), I see a lack of defence, a lack of speed, and a lack of youth. Gose can help address all 3 of those qualities and just fits perfectly as a #9 hitter as well.

[Deadpool]

No doubt he has ugly at bats, but he's always done a pretty good job of getting on base. In AA-AAA since 2011, he's put up an ISO OBP in the .090 range. So even if he only hits .250, he should be able to still get on base at a respectable rate, something in the .330s and he's fine (and through my observations, iso obp while a strange stat, translates from the minors to the bigs almost every time). And that doesn't even count the speed forced errors that he creates that get him on.

 

Bottom line, when I look at the position players/lineup on this team outside of CF (Reyes, Cabrera, Bautista, Lind, Edwin, Francisco, Lawrie, Catcher), I see a lack of defence, a lack of speed, and a lack of youth. Gose can help address all 3 of those qualities and just fits perfectly as a #9 hitter as well.

 

I don't really consider an OBP in the .330s to be good at all for a guy whose entire skill set is "fast", his glove will give him some value, but if he's going to be a slap hitter, he'd better get on base at a higher clip than the .330s...

 

Also, Lawrie is on your list of players who don't bring youth, speed or defence?

[RIPEXPOS]

I don't really consider an OBP in the .330s to be good at all for a guy whose entire skill set is "fast", his glove will give him some value, but if he's going to be a slap hitter, he'd better get on base at a higher clip than the .330s...

 

Also, Lawrie is on your list of players who don't bring youth, speed or defence?

 

Thats the list of the current lineup, 1 through 8. Lawrie brings those qualities as well, but he's the only one.

[BigCecil]

I don't really consider an OBP in the .330s to be good at all for a guy whose entire skill set is "fast", his glove will give him some value, but if he's going to be a slap hitter, he'd better get on base at a higher clip than the .330s...

 

Also, Lawrie is on your list of players who don't bring youth, speed or defence?

 

I don't see Gose ever having a .330 OBP, but can live with that if he is 9th in our order and plays ++D and learns to be a tougher out. His SB success % hasn't been great in the ML for a guy who struggles to get on base. He needs to get that up.

[GD]

If Gose ever hits for a .330 OBP...

 

Jesus.

[BigCecil]

"

I don't really consider an OBP in the .330s to be good at all for a guy whose entire skill set is "fast", his glove will give him some value, but if he's going to be a slap hitter, he'd better get on base at a higher clip than the .330s..."

 

 

Otis Nixon - one of the worst best hitters with speed. Guy made a career out of it. lifetime .343 OBP with a .650 OPS. He knew what he was.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nixonot01.shtml

 

Gose's swing is still too long which is why I don't see a .330 OBP in his future.

[Deadpool]

"

I don't really consider an OBP in the .330s to be good at all for a guy whose entire skill set is "fast", his glove will give him some value, but if he's going to be a slap hitter, he'd better get on base at a higher clip than the .330s..."

 

 

Otis Nixon - one of the worst best hitters with speed. Guy made a career out of it. lifetime .343 OBP with a .650 OPS. He knew what he was.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nixonot01.shtml

 

Gose's swing is still too long which is why I don't see a .330 OBP in his future.

 

And Otis Nixon was being judged in an era when people thought "That guy got 100 RBIs, he must be good!" and nobody had heard of OPS, so I'm going to say "times have changed" (for the better).

 

I think Juan Pierre is going to be the last of the "slap hitters with speed" guys who people consider a good player as stats have been and are continually being reevaluated.

[G-Snarls]

And Otis Nixon was being judged in an era when people thought "That guy got 100 RBIs, he must be good!" and nobody had heard of OPS, so I'm going to say "times have changed" (for the better).

 

I think Juan Pierre is going to be the last of the "slap hitters with speed" guys who people consider a good player as stats have been and are continually being reevaluated.

 

Random thought:

 

I hated Otis Nixon and his ugly ass face

[BigCecil]

Random thought:

 

I hated Otis Nixon and his ugly ass face

 

Yes, but he dragged his way into the final out for our first WS win so Ill always like him!

 

He got into the crack seriously...total mess now. Sad story.

 

Stole 6 bases in one game.

[TwistedLogic]

If the hat is the s***** handout from yesterday's game you won't get any takers. LOL.

 

http://i.imgur.com/py2PxcN.gif

[G-Snarls]

Yes, but he dragged his way into the final out for our first WS win so Ill always like him!

 

He got into the crack seriously...total mess now. Sad story.

 

Stole 6 bases in one game.

 

http://d1mxyp5ceukbya.cloudfront.net/images/otis-nixon-arrested-drugs.jpg http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2013/5-7-13-otis-nixon-arrested/15724671-1-eng-US/5-7-13-Otis-Nixon-arrested_full_600.jpg

 

Not sure he looks any worse post drug bust than he did while playing...

Edited June 2, 2014 by G-Snarls

[RIPEXPOS]

Pretty sad, he was one of my fav players when I was a kid...

[Chappy]

Reminds me of that poster OldSkool.

[kgm1]

Reminds me of that poster OldSkool.

 

Vik If Toronto goes to the playoffs will you change that ugly avatar. I jus can't stand that face

[Jimcanuck]

Vik If Toronto goes to the playoffs will you change that ugly avatar. I jus can't stand that face

 

Seconded

[G-Snarls]

Smedley ... take note.

 

Cocaine's a hell of a drug

[Mikeleelop]

By the two lugs are you referring to the guy in RF who had 2 back to back 9-3 putouts in games and has been playing very steady D offsetting limited range with good routes to the ball and a cannon, as well as Melky who has been playing avg LF and throwing very well this year?

 

Look at the uzr stats. Both Cabrera and Bautista are well below average and near the bottom of the league. Their range is poor (as is rasmus). Thus the potential of keeping a high end defender in CF (Gose)

[G-Snarls]

Look at the uzr stats. Both Cabrera and Bautista are well below average and near the bottom of the league. Their range is poor (as is rasmus). Thus the potential of keeping a high end defender in CF (Gose)

 

Among qualified players with enough innings played:

 

Bautista UZR/150 10th out of 21 among all right fielders (38 of 69 for all OF)

 

Cabrera UZR/150 13th out of 18 among all left fielders (59 of 69 for all OF)

 

So for Cabrera yes he's a bottom third defender by UZR. Bautista is actually average.

[BigCecil]

Look at the uzr stats. Both Cabrera and Bautista are well below average and near the bottom of the league. Their range is poor (as is rasmus). Thus the potential of keeping a high end defender in CF (Gose)

 

Just what I said on Jose. Melky is a little lower than I thought but serviceable - if he wasn't a SH line drive machine and was running like last year Id feel differently. To me that compensates for it. Neither of them have great range but "lugs" is an overstatement imo.

 

I haven't checked Colbys uzr stats from 2013, but his hamstring wouldn't help him this year so far.

[Mikeleelop]

True on all points, but the Jays need to mix in some above average defenders. Fielding a team of mashers will catch up to you eventually

 

With Gose out of the lineup all defenders (except some pitchers) are average or below average. I hope a healthy Rasmus is above average but so far this year he's at the bottom

 

That was the point with Goins at the start of the season. It also gets Lawrie back to third where he is a good defender

[GD]

Look at the uzr stats. Both Cabrera and Bautista are well below average and near the bottom of the league. Their range is poor (as is rasmus). Thus the potential of keeping a high end defender in CF (Gose)

 

If you're just looking at 2014 stats, be wary of using defensive stats in a small sample.

[Mikeleelop]

If you're just looking at 2014 stats, be wary of using defensive stats in a small sample.

 

1/3 of a season shows a lot for an aging outfielder

[GD]

1/3 of a season shows a lot for an aging outfielder

 

1/3 of a season is not a responsible sample size for volatile defensive metrics.

[RIPEXPOS]

Bottom line is Melky and Jose as a tandem are below average in terms of range in the corner outfield spots. Having a guy with Gose's range patrolling center helps more than it would normally.

[Chappy]

Vik If Toronto goes to the playoffs will you change that ugly avatar. I jus can't stand that face

 

Alright, if they make the playoffs I will, if they don't the avatar stays.

[G-Snarls]

Alright, if they make the playoffs I will, if they don't the avatar stays.

 

http://www.troll.me/images/angry-samuel-l-jackson/shit-just-got-real.jpg

[BigCecil]

Bottom line is Melky and Jose as a tandem are below average in terms of range in the corner outfield spots. Having a guy with Gose's range patrolling center helps more than it would normally.

 

Really wasn't aware OF defense has been a major problem this year?!