Santos is filthy

[Chappy]

Tell him to take a bath then.

 

Lame.

[NorthOf49]

I just glanced over his stats from late last year, jesus christ.

Keep in mind that two of the four walks he issued last year were intentional. Without them, his FIP totals are 28 / 2 / 1. That's f***ed!

 

Santos is absolutely ridiculous. His slider is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. It should be legislated against under international law. I get disappointed whenever Santos doesn't strike a batter out, let alone allowing that guy to reach or score.

[Chappy]

Keep in mind that two of the four walks he issued last year were intentional. Without them, his FIP totals are 28 / 2 / 1. That's f***ed!

 

Santos is absolutely ridiculous. His slider is a Weapon of Mass Destruction. It should be legislated against under international law. I get disappointed whenever Santos doesn't strike a batter out, let alone allowing that guy to reach or score.

 

He has entered epic territory, let's just hope he doesn't f*** this up. I'm actually a big fan, he just needs to focus on better command.

[Maahfaace]

Not as filthy as kimbrels slider, and he's 91mph with it

[Maahfaace]

Hamels' change and Santos' slider both play up because of the contrast created by the other pitche(s) in their respective repertoires. Kenley Jansen throws only one pitch and it's comparably effective; he is the new Rivera, most dominant pitch in baseball hands down.

 

I'd argue Craig kimbrels is the most dominant....hands down

[Maahfaace]

Hardest slider he's ever thrown was 90.4mph. His numbers with it aren't even that gaudy either (relatively speaking).

 

Dude is a SO machine and is without a doubt the best closer in baseball. Don't just look at numbers like u always do, watch video of him throwing it..it's insane

[Maahfaace]

Aroldis Chapman even more insane!

 

I'm not trying to be insulting, but do u only look at advanced stats? I can't understand how someone can only use advanced stats to analyze ball players. They're a great tool, but don't amount to even a quarter of the equation when evaluating players

[Maahfaace]

What you quoted was based on watching lol.

 

I strongly disagree with the last quote there though. It all depends on the sample size and quality of data. If you have 3-4 seasons worth of detailed data, you should almost exclusively be using stats. Pro Scouts are wasted in the big leagues IMO, they should all be at the amateur and minor league levels where we don't have great data and players are still developing.

 

Registering a pitch 10 times in pitch F/X tells us more about the pitch than a scout ever can. (ignoring control)

 

I guess that is where you and I disagree, although judging by most of your posts, this would be a futile discussion to continue with you....

[Maahfaace]

Futile in the sense that changing ur mind would be a futile attempt, not that it would upset u wife is mangry I'm on tablet in bed, I go sleepy

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

At least the Jays will have some good trade chips come the deadline. Who was it that AA was going to trade Santos for in the offseason?

 

This is an important point. Right now, Rasmus and Janssen/Santos are our best chips if we assume we want to keep Sanchez and Stroman ( I'd like to keep them but of the two Sanchez would be untouchable if I were the GM ). This is also assuming we are in the playoff race which I think we will be at the deadline. This is also why I think shopping Santos now is a good plan. Don't give him away but if we can solve any of our other problem areas they should do it. And how can we ever trade Rasmus with the depth we have in the OF ? In a perfect world, we'd find a pitching and/or payroll thin team wanting Santos + for a hitter or two, and that would make our situation more flexible now and at the deadline.

 

So is Santos truly as remarkable right now as people are saying ? If so let's find a GM that feels the same way and swing a deal. If there is no market, fine, let him pitch as a Jay. This runs the risk that he loses his effectiveness at some point and hence his trade value. I just don't know how they upgrade their offence. Not a big fan of Drew at the big bucks, he's inconsistent and could blow the budget. Morales would help the bench, but positionally he's a bad match. Who truly is out there that we can acquire, and should we not make a move before some injury hits and we look desperate ?

[Sammy225]

It'll be interesting to see what they do with Janssen/Santos. It's critical for Janssen to get back the closer role because he's a FA and he'll obviously get more money next year because of dem savez. He hasn't really done anything to lose the role.

 

I think they end up giving it back to him by default. Janssen was around in Gibby's earlier days and he probably has some loyalty towards him.

 

It's not a bad problem to have though. Both could be elite relievers down the stretch for us.

 

I really don't care what they do. I am just masturbating at the bullpen when he does come back. Very good chance if we are ahead in the seventh we are winning that game. Whether we use Cecil (rhb or lhb), Delabar, Santos, Janssen, Loup(LHB), and Happ (long man). Plus if Wagner can keep painting corners with 95mph gas he could be electric for us as well.

[ElNik2013]

The fact that Jon Daniels was reportedly very interested in Santos should tell us he's got good trade value. With a shaky starting rotation, I can see why AA might've been reluctant to weaken the bullpen, unless he was getting a starter in return to strengthen the rotation.

 

I actually doubt Janssen has much trade value even before his latest injury, he's just not a guy GM's would consider a shut-down closer, mainly because he doesn't throw hard enough. I actually think Delabar and Cecil have more trade value than Janssen, but I could be wrong, of course.

[Chappy]

I am just masturbating at the bullpen

 

No wonder our pen is so filthy.

[saskjayfan]

It'll be interesting to see what they do with Janssen/Santos. It's critical for Janssen to get back the closer role because he's a FA and he'll obviously get more money next year because of dem savez. He hasn't really done anything to lose the role.

 

I think they end up giving it back to him by default. Janssen was around in Gibby's earlier days and he probably has some loyalty towards him.

 

It's not a bad problem to have though. Both could be elite relievers down the stretch for us.

 

that's a tough call, but rather nice problem to have. Santos can be filthy...Janssen is pinpoint with command. Cecil has looked filthy, Delabar is solid, loup is solid and Wagner is a guy who can get you strikeouts. We're going to get way more quality starts out of our rotation than last year so if we continue to get good defense this bullpen can help us win the tight games.

[TwistedLogic]

What causes a guy to have a negative FIP/xFIP? Was just checking the fangraphs leaderboards and noticed Kimbrel has a negative number in both.

[G-Snarls]

What causes a guy to have a negative FIP/xFIP? Was just checking the fangraphs leaderboards and noticed Kimbrel has a negative number in both.

 

Wow. 11k 1BB and 0HR. Makes FIP happy.

 

Early in season, the corrections done to make it ERA ish can probably give some odd numbers I suppose?

Edited April 12, 2014 by G-Snarls

[GD]

What causes a guy to have a negative FIP/xFIP? Was just checking the fangraphs leaderboards and noticed Kimbrel has a negative number in both.

 

It happens when the FIP stats part of the formula comes out to a number that's smaller than 0-FIP constant, I think. Roberto Coello had a negative FIP for a while last year too. Like JFaS said, it won't last much longer. And hey, if it does, at least we know who to give the CY to!

[Jayday]

But really, this bullpen may be elite.

 

I would say it is getting close to matching the Oakland bullpen.

[Maahfaace]

Santos filthy..........

[GD]

Santos filthy..........

 

hey dogg

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Achoo

[Maahfaace]

Santos is so inconsistent, good stuff, poor control, if jays pick up his overpriced option AA should be canned...

[flafson]

He is filthy on the catchers that's for sure.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Santos is healthy. Every game he pitches is raising his value. We have a stacked pen, let him pitch. After Janssen walks Santos is going to be our closer next year anyways.

 

His perceived value took a dip today. Such a good run before might have max'd out his trade value, which was my point, plus the idea that we need a hitter and trading one of our better relievers is the least damaging move. Rogers or Redmond can be added in to a package. Hard to take this team seriously when our reserve OF/DH/bench sluggers are guys like Sierra, Thole, Gose, Goins, Kratz, Diaz. There are teams in the league with horrible holes in their pitching staff. There has to be a trade out there that makes sense, it would be a crime to keep this overloaded bullpen in a sport short on pitchers.

 

AA is really reminding me of Gord Stelleck. Kind of a young "nice" org guy that his bosses installed to be their "yes man" in the role. More then a full season of almost no trades and this roster shuffle thing that just looks like sheer chaos is clearly yelling out incompetence. No excuses now we have enough talent to contend, just need to clean up the roster and fill the glaring holes better. The bad luck we had last year has balanced out, things are no worse then neutral luck wise this year. I am really unclear why AA is qualified to be a baseball GM, what about his background makes him so. But I think you have to give guys some credit until they fail. He's failing, I'd have cut him end of last season but obviously somebody internally likes him a lot ( somebody actually calling the big shots ).

 

So, AA, do something. You said you wanted a stronger bench, lost Davis and De Rosa and replaced them with backup catchers and backup IFs. This is not rocket science, Thole being your DH is a joke. Gose playing even a game until such day as he produces in AAA ball is a joke. Kawasaki batting second is a joke.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Cooler Heads Prevail

[flafson]

If you have no fastball command, hitters won't chase his slider, it's that simple. I think he threw a lot more sliders than fastballs...

[CHRIS]

If you have no fastball command, hitters won't chase his slider, it's that simple. I think he threw a lot more sliders than fastballs...

 

It was a good approach on their part. The slider is pretty much unhittable; might as well take pitches until he can prove he can throw strikes.

[flafson]

It was a good approach on their part. The slider is pretty much unhittable; might as well take pitches until he can prove he can throw strikes.

 

For sure, even some of his other games, it looked like he got lucky because his command wasn't that great. No such luck this time and i'm sure now that everyone knows about this problem, they will use the same approach against him.

[dineke]

His command sucks every other appearance. Brett Cecil for closer.

[G-Snarls]

His command sucks every other appearance. Brett Cecil for closer.

 

A year ago I would have said Delabar but I don't trust him right now either

[Orgfiller]

It was a good approach on their part. The slider is pretty much unhittable; might as well take pitches until he can prove he can throw strikes.

 

Kipnis' AB was godly, fell behind and took some really tough pitches, 8/10 guys swing at that on a regular basis.