Jays and others still pursuing Jeff Samardzija

[KSaw]

He made 2.64 million last year and is getting 5.35 this year. Not sure what the Cubs offered him but it's been suggested that they tried to add 2016-2018 to this year and next for a total just over $55 million and got no traction.

[G-Snarls]

Correct.

 

Not bad then. That gives AA 2 whole seasons to despair the f*** out of him and coerce him to sign Garza level contract.

[Laika]

A Barney-Goins platoon at 2B could actually be very productive.

 

Make the Cubes eat some money in the form of Mouser and Happ if they want the shiny prospects.

 

If they want Sierra, f***, do it if they'll chuck in Justin Ruggiano. Probably hits lefties as well as Moises; can cover CF.

 

Smardz (5.34M, last arb next year) + Barney (2.3M arb 1 this year) + Ruggiano (2M arb 1 this year)

for

Gose + Nay + Tirado + Sierra + Happ (5.2M) + Mouser (3M this year and next)

 

That ^ is my endgame if I'm AA.

 

Toronto adds very little 2014 salary. They add wins across the roster though: big SP upgrade, decent 2B upgrade + 2B insurance, small but smart platoon/reserve upgrade with Ruggiano. Players coming in will all be here for 2015 as well.

 

The Cubes get the prospects they want for Smardz (swap out Nay or Tirado for other names if you want, it doesn't really matter). The Cubes get four young pieces. Two of them are coveted prospects, one of them is a major league ready controllable guy who may or may not suck, the other one is Sierra who is a piece of garbage. They eat some salary to make it happen, but really, Happ in the NL for 5M isn't even that gross (they just gave Jason Hammel 6M as a free agent).

 

Being said, anything that KSaw has ever said he's been hearing on the grapevine has been complete ********. The grapevine for him is a bottle of merlot and the voices of retired umpires in his head.

[G-Snarls]

I like the njh plan

[John_Havok]

It's that bad?

 

It's a story about the scout and his daughter and their relationship, with baseball traditionalism spanking saber as the backdrop. They basically wrote it for saber guys to sound like complete idiots and old scouts as the messiah's of baseball

[Olerud363]

It's a story about the scout and his daughter and their relationship, with baseball traditionalism spanking saber as the backdrop. They basically wrote it for saber guys to sound like complete idiots and old scouts as the messiah's of baseball

 

Spolier Alert

 

The old scout goes blind and then does his scouting by sound. He identifies "holes in the swing" of the top high school hitting prospect in baseball by sound only.

 

Then his daughter finds then next Justin Verlander. She scouts him in a serendipidous bullpen session in his front yard as he's playing catch with his little brother. This kid does not play organized baseball, just catch with his 10 year old brother.

 

Again

 

Kid who does not play baseball just catch with his 10 year old brother - Next Jusin Verlander. Identified by old drunk scout's daughter.

Top highschool hitting prospect - Bust. Identified by sound waves.

[Sammy225]

Spolier Alert

 

The old scout goes blind and then does his scouting by sound. He identifies "holes in the swing" of the top high school hitting prospect in baseball by sound only.

 

Then his daughter finds then next Justin Verlander. She scouts him in a serendipidous bullpen session in his front yard as he's playing catch with his little brother. This kid does not play organized baseball, just catch with his 10 year old brother.

 

Again

 

Kid who does not play baseball just catch with his 10 year old brother - Next Jusin Verlander. Identified by old drunk scout's daughter.

Top highschool hitting prospect - Bust. Identified by sound waves.

 

Sounds legit....

[GeorgiaPeach]

There's the rub. The trade would come sans extension.

 

The Jays better be targeting legitimate superstars in the next year because the team is pretty run of the mill. And trading more prospects further erodes the future.

[NorthOf49]

It's a story about the scout and his daughter and their relationship, with baseball traditionalism spanking saber as the backdrop. They basically wrote it for saber guys to sound like complete idiots and old scouts as the messiah's of baseball

"Maybe if the Red Sox take him, we can work out a draft-and-trade deal."

[kgm1]

They were talking about Trouble with the Curve, not American Hustle.

 

As for American Hustle, I thought Bradley Cooper was the star of the film. Bale was good too but Lawrence was meh in my opinion. Amy Adams was bad... i'm not sure how she got nominated for an oscar. She was nice to look at though.

 

I was talking about American Hustle . Like I said i had listened to the hype too much , Wasn't bad but I thought it would be great from the reviews . Trouble with the curve did not warrant a trip to the theater but I did watch it on TV . Thankfully I did not spend 13 $ .

[G-Snarls]

Spolier Alert

 

The old scout goes blind and then does his scouting by sound. He identifies "holes in the swing" of the top high school hitting prospect in baseball by sound only.

 

Then his daughter finds then next Justin Verlander. She scouts him in a serendipidous bullpen session in his front yard as he's playing catch with his little brother. This kid does not play organized baseball, just catch with his 10 year old brother.

 

Again

 

Kid who does not play baseball just catch with his 10 year old brother - Next Jusin Verlander. Identified by old drunk scout's daughter.

Top highschool hitting prospect - Bust. Identified by sound waves.

 

Plus:

 

Eastwood acts old (well it's not really acting anymore is it) and has some good one liners and tries to punch a guy out at a bar. Rival team feels duped after taking overhyped hitting prospect who looks like a high school bully and yells and stomps like a baby as he misses cuveball after curveball in his first batting practice for his new team. Rival scout (Timerlake) feels betrayed but still gets with old scout's daughter after tumultuousness. Father and daughter reconcide after having had a previously frigid relationship. That's probably the best part of the movie actually, certainly not the cartoonish baseball storyline.

 

I think. Why are we talking about this so much?

[Chappy]

Why are we talking about this so much?

 

Because the Jays suck?

[Brenner]

A Barney-Goins platoon at 2B could actually be very productive.

 

Make the Cubes eat some money in the form of Mouser and Happ if they want the shiny prospects.

 

If they want Sierra, f***, do it if they'll chuck in Justin Ruggiano. Probably hits lefties as well as Moises; can cover CF.

 

Smardz (5.34M, last arb next year) + Barney (2.3M arb 1 this year) + Ruggiano (2M arb 1 this year)

for

Gose + Nay + Tirado + Sierra + Happ (5.2M) + Mouser (3M this year and next)

 

That ^ is my endgame if I'm AA.

 

Toronto adds very little 2014 salary. They add wins across the roster though: big SP upgrade, decent 2B upgrade + 2B insurance, small but smart platoon/reserve upgrade with Ruggiano. Players coming in will all be here for 2015 as well.

 

The Cubes get the prospects they want for Smardz (swap out Nay or Tirado for other names if you want, it doesn't really matter). The Cubes get four young pieces. Two of them are coveted prospects, one of them is a major league ready controllable guy who may or may not suck, the other one is Sierra who is a piece of garbage. They eat some salary to make it happen, but really, Happ in the NL for 5M isn't even that gross (they just gave Jason Hammel 6M as a free agent).

 

Being said, anything that KSaw has ever said he's been hearing on the grapevine has been complete ********. The grapevine for him is a bottle of merlot and the voices of retired umpires in his head.

 

Great trade for the Jays, even if the Shark walks after 2 years he is still here for "compete now" window and we'd get a comp pick. But I don't think it happens unless one of the prospects is either Stroman or Sanchez.

[Laika]

Great trade for the Jays, even if the Shark walks after 2 years he is still here for "compete now" window and we'd get a comp pick. But I don't think it happens unless one of the prospects is either Stroman or Sanchez.

 

That's probably what it's all coming down to, yeah. The Cubes insisting on Stroman or Sanchez, the Jays refusing.

[G-Snarls]

Great trade for the Jays, even if the Shark walks after 2 years he is still here for "compete now" window and we'd get a comp pick. But I don't think it happens unless one of the prospects is either Stroman or Sanchez.

 

Seems likely

 

And I don't think, right now, I trade Stroman or Sanchez for him. A year ago yes. But too late for that IYAM. I'm optimistic enough about both. Either or both could be as good or better than Samardzija within 0.5-1.5 seasons, and getting paid league minimum, with 4-5 years of team control.

[Olerud363]

Plus:

 

Eastwood acts old (well it's not really acting anymore is it) and has some good one liners and tries to punch a guy out at a bar. Rival team feels duped after taking overhyped hitting prospect who looks like a high school bully and yells and stomps like a baby as he misses cuveball after curveball in his first batting practice for his new team. Rival scout (Timerlake) feels betrayed but still gets with old scout's daughter after tumultuousness. Father and daughter reconcide after having had a previously frigid relationship. That's probably the best part of the movie actually, certainly not the cartoonish baseball storyline.

 

I think. Why are we talking about this so much?

 

I think because the people who made the movie obviously have a warm spot for old drunk scouts. Who ever made this movie has similiar thought patterns to Paul Beeston. I think Beeston just wants to prove to everybody that good old Cito, and the old scouts were right about everything after all. The crazy on base percentage loving saber idiots can go F themselves.

 

Anyway the movie is hilarious because it goes to such lengths to show the point it actually falls into riculousness and really proves the other point.

 

I guess it is a movie for casuals. I have a hard enough time believing the super-scouts who claim this guy, or that guy has "a hole in his swing" thus despite minor league success he will never amount to anything. But I am willing to listen to these people and take note of what they are saying.

 

I draw the line if they tell me they are blind and listened to audio tapes of the guys swing.

[Olerud363]

And another point. Remember the story about Ricciardi's Dad finding Tim Collins at an American Legion game?? That is just on the border. Cool story so things like this happen once and a while.

 

Change Ricciardi's Dad to Riccardi's daughter... no biggy, I am sure women are fine at scouting if they got into it.

 

Change "American Legion Game" to "catch in my backyard". That is a biggy. I mean literally they find this guy in the backyard having apparently never played a game of baseball at any level. And then in the end they bring him for a try out. He strikes out the first overall pick in a simulated at bat, revealing his weaknesses to the front office and making the saber guys look like fools.

 

Apparently this guy, kind-of looks like Travis Snider, got taken 3rd overall or something, and nobody ever saw a weakness.

 

Nobody ever did "see" a weakness, but the old drunk blind scout heard the weakness, and then his daughter found the next Verlander in somebody's backyard and they all made the math guys look like idiots.

 

I bet Beeston loves the movie. I know I'm going on and on about it.

[Brenner]

Seems likely

 

And I don't think, right now, I trade Stroman or Sanchez for him. A year ago yes. But too late for that IYAM. I'm optimistic enough about both. Either or both could be as good or better than Samardzija within 0.5-1.5 seasons, and getting paid league minimum, with 4-5 years of team control.

 

I agree, I view each of these guys as a 50/50 (probably too optimistic) chance of a cheap controllable stud pitcher. So I am inclined to keep both because the team badly needs one. We gave up as much prospect capital as we could spare last off season. Another such trade would leave this team pretty much ALL IN on the next 2 years. Even though we are practically all in anyway from the trades last year, at this point they could blow it up and recoup alot of that back with the assets on this team.

[John_Havok]

I mean literally they find this guy in the backyard having apparently never played a game of baseball at any level. And then in the end they bring him for a try out. He strikes out the first overall pick in a simulated at bat, revealing his weaknesses to the front office and making the saber guys look like fools.

 

Don't forget though he had tons of experience throwing peanuts as a peanut vendor.

[G-Snarls]

I agree, I view each of these guys as a 50/50 (probably too optimistic) chance of a cheap controllable stud pitcher. So I am inclined to keep both because the team badly needs one. We gave up as much prospect capital as we could spare last off season. Another such trade would leave this team pretty much ALL IN on the next 2 years. Even though we are practically all in anyway from the trades last year, at this point they could blow it up and recoup alot of that back with the assets on this team.

 

Therefore

 

Chance of two.studs 25%

 

Chance of 2 busts 25%

 

Chance of both decent or one stud and one bust 50%

[Jimcanuck]

Therefore

 

Chance of two.studs 25%

 

Chance of 2 busts 25%

 

Chance of both decent or one stud and one bust 50%

 

Plus, Shark's arm could fall off..... his innings have been on a steep incline

[xposbrad]

Because the Jays suck?

 

They might have sucked last year, but someone on the forums is projecting 4/5 of the Jays staff to have ERAs under 4 !! lol

That would probably make them the top team in the east with their hitting.

[kgm1]

Because the Jays suck?

 

It isn't as bad as it looks . Hutch has pitched well and looks ready . Two of Redmond , Rogers , Happ or Morrow will eventually show up . McGowan made 45 pitches and looked good . If he rebounds and can do it again then they may slowly stretch him out . Stroman needs work but Sanchez is starting to look better and both could be ready at some point this year .

 

The bench is ugly , but Tuiasosopo helps . The real ugliness is NO positional depth . Jays can't afford any position player DL stints

[Chappy]

Therefore

 

Chance of two.studs 25%

 

Chance of 2 busts 25%

 

Chance of both decent or one stud and one bust 50%

 

I'd say chance of 2 studs is probably around 5%. Most pitching prospects bust and if we're looking at both, then it's very unlikely. If just one, then chances go up quite a bit. My bet is one will likely bust and the other probably ends up being a mid rotation guy.

[Chappy]

It isn't as bad as it looks . Hutch has pitched well and looks ready . Two of Redmond , Rogers , Happ or Morrow will eventually show up . McGowan made 45 pitches and looked good . If he rebounds and can do it again then they may slowly stretch him out . Stroman needs work but Sanchez is starting to look better and both could be ready at some point this year .

 

The bench is ugly , but Tuiasosopo helps . The real ugliness is NO positional depth . Jays can't afford any position player DL stints

 

Yeah I was just kidding Ken. This team has deficiencies, but this lineup could be a top 3 lineup in MLB this year if we get lucky with health. The rotation has some upside with Hutch and Morrow if one or both can step it up, but it's just too many question marks. This team was/is a couple moves from being legitimate, but at this point we are likely looking at this team as is.

[DuckDuckGose]

A Barney-Goins platoon at 2B could actually be very productive.

 

Make the Cubes eat some money in the form of Mouser and Happ if they want the shiny prospects.

 

If they want Sierra, f***, do it if they'll chuck in Justin Ruggiano. Probably hits lefties as well as Moises; can cover CF.

 

Smardz (5.34M, last arb next year) + Barney (2.3M arb 1 this year) + Ruggiano (2M arb 1 this year)

for

Gose + Nay + Tirado + Sierra + Happ (5.2M) + Mouser (3M this year and next)

 

That ^ is my endgame if I'm AA.

 

Toronto adds very little 2014 salary. They add wins across the roster though: big SP upgrade, decent 2B upgrade + 2B insurance, small but smart platoon/reserve upgrade with Ruggiano. Players coming in will all be here for 2015 as well.

 

The Cubes get the prospects they want for Smardz (swap out Nay or Tirado for other names if you want, it doesn't really matter). The Cubes get four young pieces. Two of them are coveted prospects, one of them is a major league ready controllable guy who may or may not suck, the other one is Sierra who is a piece of garbage. They eat some salary to make it happen, but really, Happ in the NL for 5M isn't even that gross (they just gave Jason Hammel 6M as a free agent).

 

Being said, anything that KSaw has ever said he's been hearing on the grapevine has been complete ********. The grapevine for him is a bottle of merlot and the voices of retired umpires in his head.

 

Itd have to be Romero not Happ IMO. Need to

[Laika]

Itd have to be Romero not Happ IMO. Need to

 

Why?

 

That makes it worse for the Cubes and its probably already a homer tilt because I'm a Jays fan.

[jaysblue]

It isn't as bad as it looks . Hutch has pitched well and looks ready . Two of Redmond , Rogers , Happ or Morrow will eventually show up . McGowan made 45 pitches and looked good . If he rebounds and can do it again then they may slowly stretch him out . Stroman needs work but Sanchez is starting to look better and both could be ready at some point this year .

 

The bench is ugly , but Tuiasosopo helps . The real ugliness is NO positional depth . Jays can't afford any position player DL stints

 

In other words, it could get pretty bad in a hurry if one of those dominoes fall through.

[ElNik2013]

Maybe Sanchez is still in big league camp to be showcased for teams to be traded for immediate help?

 

I mention this because I think he should've been sent to minor league camp a week ago.

[Chappy]

Maybe Sanchez is still in big league camp to be showcased for teams to be traded for immediate help?

 

I mention this because I think he should've been sent to minor league camp a week ago.

 

No doubt this is a showcase. He has zero chance of cracking this rotation out of spring.