Vernon Wells Designated for Assignment - Pickup?

[Brenner]

His final year with the team he had a 4.2 War with 31 hr hitting .273 and was an all star. More naive me back then was actually upset when we traded him away for nothing.

 

Yes in retrospect really looks like an astute sell high by AA, even if we got nothing much of value back (though we should have just kept Napoli). The last 3 years, and the final year coming up, of his contract is definition of albatross contract. But at the time he was coming off a good 4+ war year, some GMs could have talked themselves into keeping him.

 

If you look at what we paid him, and what we got out of him during his years here, he was a complete steal for the organization. If someone compiled a list of surplus value the Jays have received from a player he might be near the top.

[G-Snarls]

Yes but "he wasn't really bad" shouldn't pass a standard to be judged as a great Jay. He had 5 good to great years, and 4 mediocre to plain bad years. So overall he was a good player but not great regardless of his disastrous contract. Just never developed into the consistent and reliable 3/4 hitter we needed at the time he was here.

 

In terms of tenure/quality/hitting he was essentially Joe Carter with better defense, but paid a lot more and without a big spotlight moment

[Brenner]

In terms of tenure/quality/hitting he was essentially Joe Carter with better defense, but paid a lot more and without a big spotlight moment

 

Actually we paid Joe $39 mil over 7 years for 8.4 WAR, Vernon $42 mil over 12 (includes 3 starter years with little AB) for 28.9 WAR. I would say Joe got rewarded quite handsomely for the two playoff runs he had and milked them for alot of overpaid years afterward, whereas Vernon was bargain.

 

Since leaving the Jays Vernon has produced -0.1 WAR for about about $68 mil... and will make another $21 mil for nothing next year.

[JugglingPitches]

Bad contract or not, he was never a great player, just a better than average one. Great is Halladay, Stieb, Alomar, Fernandez, Delgado. Good is Gruber, White, Carter, Wells...and I'd put Wells near the bottom of that list because he never played a meaningful game as a Jay. Not his fault, but still. Greatness comes in the playoffs unless you are exceptional in the regular season, which Wells never was.

[The Cats Ass]

I'd put Wells near the bottom of that list because he never played a meaningful game as a Jay. Not his fault, but still. Greatness comes in the playoffs unless you are exceptional in the regular season, which Wells never was.

 

So in your opinion someone like Aaron Boone is a great player.... Got it.

[G-Snarls]

Why on Earth would this matter?

 

Right. Not Wells or Hallday's fault the rest of the team was crap

[TBJ12]

I just noticed that Tony Fernandez was brought back to the Jays on three different occasions after being traded to SD.

 

Good is Gruber, White, Carter, Wells

 

IMO Gruber is one of the most overrated Blue Jays of all time.

[Olerud363]

I just noticed that Tony Fernandez was brought back to the Jays on three different occasions after being traded to SD.

 

 

 

IMO Gruber is one of the most overrated Blue Jays of all time.

 

What is your definition of over-rated?? He had a nice 3 year run between 88 and 90. If someone offerred to me that Brett Lawrie could have a similiar 3 year peak I'd take it at this point. Historically I don't see him as being over-rated. No one thinks he is a god anymore... do they??

 

At the time he was over-rated. Achieved god-like status among the casuals.

[TBJ12]

At the time he was over-rated. Achieved god-like status among the casuals.

 

This is exactly what I'm referring to.

 

I don't really remember there being anything but casual's back then, everyone loved home runs and rbi's. On base percentage would have been considered an advanced stat at that time.

[KingKat]

This is exactly what I'm referring to.

 

I don't really remember there being anything but casual's back then, everyone loved home runs and rbi's. On base percentage would have been considered an advanced stat at that time.

 

It's really weird to look back on those years and realize how out of touch we all were. Olerud was a much more valuable player than anyone realized even in 1992 before his big batting average year. Carter was much less valuable.

[JugglingPitches]

So in your opinion someone like Aaron Boone is a great player.... Got it.

 

Nice straw man.

[JugglingPitches]

Why on Earth would this matter?

 

I'm a little surprised I need to explain why clutch performances matter.

[The Cats Ass]

I'm a little surprised I need to explain why clutch performances matter.

 

I heard of this guy that goes by JPA, heard he's pretty clutch. A lot of game winning homers. Maybe we should look at bringing him in.

[JugglingPitches]

Right. Not Wells or Hallday's fault the rest of the team was crap

 

You will notice I said this in my post.

 

Halladay is Halladay. Second best pitcher in franchise history behind Dave Stieb, would have been the best of all time and broken franchise records had he stayed a few more years. Halladay is a Jays great.

 

Vernon Wells was good, but I wouldn't put him on an all-time Jays team and the only way he could have catapulted himself into greatness would be through clutch playoff performances, of which he had none, his fault or not. Wells will be regarded in the history books as an average - slightly above average hitter and an exceptional fielder. But I will always remember him as a lazy player who would joke around and not seem to care whether they were winning or losing. Sadly we have a clubhouse full of these types of players on this team right now as well.

[JugglingPitches]

I heard of this guy that goes by JPA, heard he's pretty clutch. A lot of game winning homers. Maybe we should look at bringing him in.

 

u iz smrt.

[Sammy225]

I heard of this guy that goes by JPA, heard he's pretty clutch. A lot of game winning homers. Maybe we should look at bringing him in.

 

Delmon Young has had some good Playoff years Great player that guy.

[jaysblue]

Ugh... I really hope that annoying trend doesn't become more common in baseball.

 

Biggest Jays signings this offseason - signing Halladay and Wells to one day contracts so they could retire in Jays uniforms.

[Brenner]

Wells is probably on the 2nd team of All-Time Jays at CF behind Devon White. White's 5 year stretch here was awesome, especially the first 3 years (91 to 93).

 

Now if we actually resigned Rasmus and he was here for another 5-6 years, it'd be interested to see where he would stack up against Wells and White. The advantage Rasmus has over wells is that he doesn't have the pressure of being the go to guy on offense. Chances are they could put up similar offensive numbers and the perception of the two would be different.

[JugglingPitches]

Wells is probably on the 2nd team of All-Time Jays at CF behind Devon White. White's 5 year stretch here was awesome, especially the first 3 years (91 to 93).

 

Moseby

White

Wells

Rasmus

[Brenner]

Moseby

White

Wells

Rasmus

 

I had forgotten about Moseby (before my time), but no way I put him above White. But he probably does slot in above Wells. So I guess Wells is down to 3rd team All Jay.

[JugglingPitches]

I had forgotten about Moseby (before my time), but no way I put him above White. But he probably does slot in above Wells. So I guess Wells is down to 3rd team All Jay.

 

I would put Moseby above White. Moseby played 10 seasons as a Jay, White played 5. White was the better fielder, Moseby the better hitter...but if not for the World Series wins, White wouldn't really hold up to him.

 

Wells has more slightly more WAR as a Jay than Moseby with around the same number of games.

 

This is why, as much as I respect the numbers, they don't tell the whole story. Wells could not hold a candle to Lloyd Moseby and what he meant to the Jays.

[Brenner]

I would put Moseby above White. Moseby played 10 seasons as a Jay, White played 5. White was the better fielder, Moseby the better hitter...but if not for the World Series wins, White wouldn't really hold up to him.

 

 

 

This is why, as much as I respect the numbers, they don't tell the whole story. Wells could not hold a candle to Lloyd Moseby and what he meant to the Jays.

 

And with the same reasoning that is why I would put White above Moseby. Yes he only played 5 years but he was probably the 2nd most valuable player during that time frame on a team that won 2 WS, right there with Alomar.

[The_DH]

Mosey would have been a superb left fielder. His CF abilities were meh.

[Lawrie22]

I wouldn't be totally opposed to Wells, as long as he came very cheap which I suspect he would take less money to come back to toronto. AA said he wanted someone who can play CF and Wells did that for years in the Rogers center. He also started off pretty good last season with the yanks but finished horribly. He wouldn't be my first choice but if AA couldn't get anyone else I would prefer Wells on our bench than Sierra/Pillar.

[connorp]

I wouldn't be totally opposed to Wells, as long as he came very cheap which I suspect he would take less money to come back to toronto. AA said he wanted someone who can play CF and Wells did that for years in the Rogers center. He also started off pretty good last season with the yanks but finished horribly. He wouldn't be my first choice but if AA couldn't get anyone else I would prefer Wells on our bench than Sierra/Pillar.

 

"as long as he comes very cheap".. its in stone he will either get league minimum or a minor league deal.. nothing more

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but when a player is under contract, they cant get anything more than that. The signing team simply pays their part of the salary towards the team that's on the hook for him...

 

What you could say, as since hes playing for free basically wherever he goes.. he may choose Tor over some other cities

Edited January 18, 2014 by connorp

[The_DH]

"as long as he comes very cheap".. its in stone he will either get league minimum or a minor league deal.. nothing more

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but when a player is under contract, they cant get anything more than that. The signing team simply pays their part of the salary towards the team that's on the hook for him

 

If a player were to get more than the contract then they probably would be traded. But generally I think you have it.

[connorp]

I'm definitely ok with Wells > Pillar thinking though. Really don't want to see him play anymore.

[Lawrie22]

Actually a story up on tsn about wells and the jays. Not a rumor just a column written by a guy who thinks it would be a good idea to bring him back.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=441069

[Dick_Pole]

I had forgotten about Moseby (before my time), but no way I put him above White. But he probably does slot in above Wells. So I guess Wells is down to 3rd team All Jay.

 

Not sure how anyone can rank Moseby above White other than tenure. They were basically equivalent offensive talents with White the far better defender.

[Ziggyy108]

Id be cool with Wells as a bench player. More nostalgia though haha