Report: Twins, Rockies, Jays 'could be threats to steal' Saltalamacchia

[jaysblue]

You can't be saying that Ruiz and Salty are in the same stratosphere defensively are you? Stop baiting mate?!

 

Not even close lol. Ruiz is far superior defensively.

[KingKat]

But Salty is projected to post a 3 WAR next season by Steamer…And people wanted an older catcher who's 35 in Carlos Ruiz at 3 years/$26 million which many posters on here said was a bargain. And Ruiz is projected for a similar WAR as Salty next season as well. Is Steamer all of a sudden wrong?

 

It's more about how these guys get their WAR. Ruiz contributes more to run prevention and I think that's what people would like to see in a Jays catcher.

[TRM]

I love the projections but.............projections are made ​​on computers. Men lacking talent like Goins, Salty and JPA are sometimes benefited by computers.

 

Salty has more talent than those two fellas, that's for sure.

[Angrioter]

Salty has more talent than those two fellas, that's for sure.

 

........or those two fellas have less talent than Salty.

[TRM]

........or those two fellas have less talent than Salty.

 

Haha you might be right.

 

Salty was a top 20 prospect though back in 2006. Neither of those guys were ever that.

[Angrioter]

Haha you might be right.

 

Salty was a top 20 prospect though back in 2006. Neither of those guys were ever that.

 

The difference between JPA and Salty isn't abysmal.

 

JPA in the atmosphere of Boston would have another kind of performance. That kid needs a change of environment (I'm incredulous at that aspect but.......Aaron Hill)

 

I don't care how you contribute to win games (Bat or Glove)....!!Catch the ball or hit the bal!!

[jaysblue]

It's more about how these guys get their WAR. Ruiz contributes more to run prevention and I think that's what people would like to see in a Jays catcher.

 

I completely agree. I think getting stronger defensively behind the plate is the main priority, even if you have to suffer with the bat. That's why I want the Jays to go after Hanigan. He'd be a cheap option and hitting him 8th or 9th really wouldn't be a problem.

[jaysblue]

Eeeewwwww.......f*** Salty man, he's JPA's twin.s***, so is AJ.........they can DIAF, I'd be pretty disappointed with, either.

 

Well according to FanGraphs and Steamer, he is not JPA's twin as many posters on here are making him out to be lol.

[jaysblue]

I love the projections but.............projections are made ​​on computers. Men lacking talent like Goins, Salty and JPA are sometimes benefited by computers.

 

I like looking at projections as well, though they are not the be-all and end-all when it comes down to projecting player performance. I factor in a lot of things when making my own evaluations and projections on players.

[jaysblue]

Who's the many posters? There defence is just as bad as JP's, who'd seriously want to watch this kind of thing again? I sure as f*** don't.

 

Then why is Steamers projecting 3 WAR next season? And how then was Salty worth 3.6 WAR this past season? I'm just playing this side of the argument. I agree with you as well - Salty is not my first choice especially with the contract he'll likely demand though from the sounds of it, many posters on here are saying Salty is as bad as JPA, though sites like FanGraphs and projections from Steamer beg to differ.

[jays_fever]

For what he's going to cost, we should pass on Salty. Like others have pointed out, Hanigan is a better option. Use the free money to either lock up Rasmus, get another SP or improve 2nd

[Angrioter]

His bat landed him that WAR, as Kev pointed out earlier last year is just an outlier, there's no way he can sustain a BABIP near 400 again. Sounds to me like you'd need a little Salty in your DDL line-up?!

 

The Green Monster was his greatest ally

[Terminator]

But Salty is projected to post a 3 WAR next season by Steamer…And people wanted an older catcher who's 35 in Carlos Ruiz at 3 years/$26 million which many posters on here said was a bargain. And Ruiz is projected for a similar WAR as Salty next season as well. Is Steamer all of a sudden wrong?

 

It's a very good point you are making. I think Salty at his age is a better bet on a 3 year deal than Ruiz.

[jaysblue]

His bat landed him that WAR, as Kev pointed out earlier last year is just an outlier, there's no way he can sustain a BABIP near 400 again. Sounds to me like you'd need a little Salty in your DDL line-up?!

 

I've got Travis d'Arnaud mate, and Yan Gomes warming the seat for him

[jaysblue]

The Green Monster was his greatest ally

 

There wasn't a drastic difference between his home/road splits. Also, I'm sure his bat would play at the Rogers Centre just fine.

[Terminator]

I completely agree. I think getting stronger defensively behind the plate is the main priority, even if you have to suffer with the bat. That's why I want the Jays to go after Hanigan. He'd be a cheap option and hitting him 8th or 9th really wouldn't be a problem.

 

But does it really matter where you get your value from? Say you have the choice between the following:

 

Catcher A: 3 oWAR, 0 dWAR

Catcher B: 1.5 oWAR, 1.5 dWAR

 

Why would Catcher B be more desirable?

[Angrioter]

There wasn't a drastic difference between his home/road splits. Also, I'm sure his bat would play at the Rogers Centre just fine.

 

Hypothesis overthrown by a nerd.

 

Gracias por nada!!

[Terminator]

Does anyone want Suzuki?? And why didn't we try and sign shumaker??

 

I'd like Suzuki as a backup but he just isn't able to produce at the level he did 4-5 years ago. If he ended up as our C I'd be pretty disappointed unless he was brought in on the cheap to afford significant upgrades elsewhere.

[BlueJaysGirl]

Seriously, why not Jimenez? Assuming he's healthy by March, will he suddenly become a s***** defensive catcher in the bigs? No. Will he bat .120 because he's young? Doubt it. Just do it AA.

[G-Snarls]

But does it really matter where you get your value from? Say you have the choice between the following:

 

Catcher A: 3 oWAR, 0 dWAR

Catcher B: 1.5 oWAR, 1.5 dWAR

 

Why would Catcher B be more desirable?

 

I think there are still things that WAR doesn't capture, especially for catchers, things like ability to handle a pitching staff, giving pitchers confidence in throwing hard breaking balls with runners on base, etc.

 

WAR is excellent in general, and I like it in many circumstances, but catcher defense may be one area where it doesn't tell the whole story well. Fangraphs themselves readily admit this:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/catcher-defense/

[KingKat]

I've got Travis d'Arnaud mate, and Yan Gomes warming the seat for him

 

You're the alternate universe Blue Jays.

[Terminator]

I think there are still things that WAR doesn't capture, especially for catchers, things like ability to handle a pitching staff, giving pitchers confidence in throwing hard breaking balls with runners on base, etc.

 

WAR is excellent in general, and I like it in many circumstances, but catcher defense may be one area where it doesn't tell the whole story well. Fangraphs themselves readily admit this:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/catcher-defense/

 

Great point. But are we just assuming that a C who can catch and throw is also good at handling a pitching staff, giving pitcher's confidence, etc.? I'm not comfortable doing that.

 

My point is that it was near universal approval that a 3 year deal for Ruiz was a tits contract to hand out whereas one for Salty wouldn't be a good idea. And this is despite the fact that Salty is generally healthier and much younger.

[KingKat]

Great point. But are we just assuming that a C who can catch and throw is also good at handling a pitching staff, giving pitcher's confidence, etc.? I'm not comfortable doing that.

 

My point is that it was near universal approval that a 3 year deal for Ruiz was a tits contract to hand out whereas one for Salty wouldn't be a good idea. And this is despite the fact that Salty is generally healthier and much younger.

 

Ruiz is just easier to like because there are no flaws in his game. He has the reputation of a catcher who does everything right and while the stats may not be able to capture the full impact of his play behind the plate, they don't contradict that impression either. That being said, the catching market is thinning out and Salty is nothing to snicker when you look at what's availabe. Hanigan, because Ruiz is gone and because he is basically the anti-JPA, is the apple of everyone's eye right now but the big caveat is that we don't know what he will cost. The assumption is that the cost in salary and in trade for Hanigan makes more sense than the cost in salary for Salty but even though that's a fair assumption, it's still an assumption. We don't actually know what Cincy wants and we don't know if they are more likely to trade him to the Jays than to someone else. Given the crappiness of the other free agents, given that Toronto and Cincinatti have yet to come to an agreement on a trade and there's no real news that they are even working towards something let alone getting close maybe signing Salty would be a very good idea. Certainly better than playing catcher hot potato/musical chairs and ending up with JPA again.

[Chappy]

At 3/24 or 3/27, chances are that salty earns that contract quite easily. Not my primary or secondary choice but he is still an upgrade and is young enough that he could maintain or improve his value. If he is the alternative to JP, I would take that on a 3 year deal.

[Dr. Dinger]

Completely agree. Salty at $8-9 AAV makes me sick. Lol @ "steal" him from the Red Sox, they'd be happy to let him walk at that price.

[leaffie]

I can't believe people are mentioning Salty.........just f***ing shoot me if we acquire him. JPA all over again at 7× the cost, unbelievable.

 

No kidding.

[jaysblue]

Jesus Matt......we've been watching two different ballplayers over the years. Salty is garbage behind the dish, at his age his skillset isn't going to get any better. There's a reason Bostons pitchers wanted Ross calling the games in the postseason.

 

So something then is wrong with FanGraphs and Steamers projections? I thought having a WAR of 3.6 is pretty darn good for a catcher. I'm just playing this side of the argument.

[Angrioter]

JPA 2,8M > Salty 9M

[wilko]

There has to be a better option than Salty!

[KingKat]

......that staff was Doc/Burnett/MacGowan/Purcey and I forget the other,

 

Marcum.