Trout vs. Cabrera: All voters explain their ballots

[Boxcar]

http://aldengonzalez.mlblogs.com/2013/11/15/voters-chime-in-on-their-al-mvp-ballots/

 

Think it's thread worthy. Some of these guys just make you shake your head with their reasoning. Some flat out say the MVP must come from a playoff team.

 

Ballou is a must read on his own.

[Nox]

Ballou is a must read on his own.

 

"I’m of the school that in order to have “value” you have to help your team be good,"

 

Ugh.

[Nox]

So if Barry Ruth put up a 21 WAR season for the Astros last year, he can't be considered? Ok great.

[Boxcar]

So if Barry Ruth put up a 21 WAR season for the Astros last year, he can't be considered? Ok great.

 

Cheer up Nox. Eventually they will have to take some corrective measures, like they did with the gold gloves.

 

This guy probably doesn't even watch baseball and I'm pretty sure Marty York is still allowed to vote. Time to clean up!

[Nox]

I will not cheer up!!

 

I'm going to wrap myself up in my Mike Trout poster and weep gently until the enduring embrace of sleep rescues me from our reality.

[Nox]

Cross posted but directly relevant here:

 

Ryan (Hanover, PA)

How can we change the voting system in baseball to avoid flat out homerism?? PS-The guy who voted Trout #7 should be forced to go on an all McDonald's diet.

 

Klaw (1:09 PM)

That would be Bill Ballew, the same guy who IIRC doesn't own a cell phone. I also enjoyed him calling himself a "strict constructionist" while making up his own arbitrary criterion that said a player can't win the award if his team doesn't go to the playoffs. Hey, Bill, strict constructionism means ... pretty much the opposite of what you did.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Babysteps guys.

 

In 20 years these guys will all be dead .

[eastcoastjaysfan]

"Ken Rosenthal (FOX Sports): 1. Trout, 2. Cabrera, 3. Donaldson

 

I’m just wondering, what is it going to take for Trout to win an MVP? Another writer said it well — he is this generation’s Mantle. I generally prefer my MVP to come from a contender, but why should Trout be held responsible for the failings of his owner, general manager, manager and teammates? I love Cabrera, but Trout is far superior as an all-around player and, when you put it all together, more valuable. "

 

Kenny Ken telling it like it is.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

"John Hickey (Oakland Tribune): 1. Donaldson, 2. Cabrera, 3. Davis (Trout 4th)"

 

Jesus... Homerism much?

[Boxcar]

"John Hickey (Oakland Tribune): 1. Donaldson, 2. Cabrera, 3. Davis (Trout 4th)"

 

Jesus... Homerism much?

 

I understand the Donaldson argument for value to his team because of his supporting cast more than Cabrera's. I don't have a huge issue with Cabrera winning TBH, just the reasoning from most voters is bizarre.

[GD]

Jose de Jesus Ortiz (Houston Chronicle): 1. Cabrera, 2. Trout, 3. Donaldson

 

I weighed the stats and seriously considered Trout at the top of my ballot. I used analytics for the first time since I’ve voted, but I also added extra points for playing on a playoff team. In that process, Cabrera barely edged out Trout on my ballot.

 

I shed a single tear of joy. :')

 

THIS IS PROGRESS!

[Nox]

I shed a single tear of joy. :')

 

THIS IS PROGRESS!

 

Until he arbitrarily added "points" to those metrics, rendering the analytics part useless lol.

 

You're probably right though. Through the ********, there are hints of progress with a number of writers. Most at least admit to looking at the numbers and "taking them into account" whereas even 5 years ago most just dismissed them outright.

[GD]

Until he arbitrarily added "points" to those metrics, rendering the analytics part useless lol.

 

You're probably right though. Through the ********, there are hints of progress with a number of writers. Most at least admit to looking at the numbers and "taking them into account" whereas even 5 years ago most just dismissed them outright.

 

Exactly. He screwed up at the end but it's a start god damnit and I can live with that.

[Slot Machine]

NotGraphs, Mike Trout award.

 

 

I liked this comment.

 

In a related story, Fangraphs is replacing the WAR statistic with WUT (Wins Under Trout). League leaders for 2013 are:

 

NL – Andrew McCutchen (2.2 WUT)

AL – Mike Trout (0.0 WUT)

[EdelweissBouquet]

http://aldengonzalez.mlblogs.com/2013/11/15/voters-chime-in-on-their-al-mvp-ballots/

 

Think it's thread worthy. Some of these guys just make you shake your head with their reasoning. Some flat out say the MVP must come from a playoff team.

 

Ballou is a must read on his own.

 

 

How dare you decide what is thread worthy or not !

 

If every baseball fan had the same opinion on every

topic,there would be no discussions, and forums like

this would have no reason to exist.

Be thankful there are people like me and others like

me that are capable of independent thought.

[Dick_Pole]

Hehe this thread is funny.

 

Kids, do you really wanna be a baseball writer so you can vote for the MVP? Here's all you gotta do in three simple steps:

 

1. Go to university and get your journalism degree.

2. Learn something about baseball.

3. Suck some editor's dick.

 

And voila you are a baseball writer. You too, now have the privilege of voting for the BBWAA awards where your selections and reasoning can be criticized by 10,000 douchebags online who think they know better than you! As an added bonus you will get to determine the fate of Jack Morris' Hall of Fame candidacy where your choice, one way or the other, will end up with your getting death threats or your house getting egged!

[John_Havok]

"Bill Ballou (Worcester Telegram & Gazette): 1. Davis, 2. Cabrera, 3. Donaldson (Trout 7th)

 

I am a strict constructionist re: “valuable”. If the award were Player of the Year, Trout would get my vote. I’m of the school that in order to have “value” you have to help your team be good, at least to the point of contending. The Angels didn’t truly contend. To fully develop that logic, players from non-contenders should not be listed on the ballot at all, but the BBWAA insists that we fill out all 10 slots, so I did, even though I did not think there were 10 worthy candidates from contending teams."

 

This idiot can't lose his vote soon enough. Says that the MVP must come from a contender, then gives his first place vote to Davis, who was on a team that was less of a contender than Kansas City.

[John_Havok]

Thought I'd tack this on by a St Louis homer who voted Molina as the MVP.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/goold-why-i-voted-for-molina-as-nl-mvp/article_74ef3d15-1b7e-5f40-9048-dae5b58667bf.html

 

Spoiler alert, he talks about cERA!

[TheHurl]

There is a reason they leave it as "Valuable Player" and let old baseball writers, that don't watch games outside of their home team, vote...it keeps people talking about baseball after the season is over. It's one of MLB's best marketing campaigns.

[Terminator]

So does this make us all Angels fans? Because for Trout to win the MVP the Angels will have to start winning.

[o2cui2i]

There is a reason they leave it as "Valuable Player" and let old baseball writers, that don't watch games outside of their home team, vote...it keeps people talking about baseball after the season is over. It's one of MLB's best marketing campaigns.

 

part of that is finally coming to an end with instant replay. arguing over whether a call was correct or not has always been part of the game.

 

I wonder which manager will get ejected first for arguing with instant replay. lol

[jays_fever]

Ive posted this in another thread, but this Ballou character deserves to be f***ing fired. He's clearly picking names out of a hat..and doesnt follow his own criteria since he voted for f***ing Chris Davis of the medoicre Baltimore Orioles first. It's one thing to pick Miggy over Trout..but how do you pick Davis over Miggy

[EdelweissBouquet]

" I’m of the school that in order to have “value” you have to help your team be good, "at least to the point of contending. The Angels didn’t truly contend. "

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now this DOES make sense.

 

If Gose played CF for the angels every game this past season,the Angels would have been non contenders throughout the year and their season ends the same way. So how valuable was trout?

Best player of the year is another story.

[GD]

If Gose played CF for the angels every game this past season,the Angels would have been non contenders throughout the year and their season ends the same way.

 

A 66 win team is a very different ending than a 78 win team that played under their pytho, and that's what likely would have happened in that scenario.

[EdelweissBouquet]

It means their golfing season begins at the same time, with gose or trout at CF.

[Boxcar]

It means their golfing season begins at the same time, with gose or trout at CF.

 

I deem this not post worthy.

[EdelweissBouquet]

Boxcar = not worthy to to deem a post not worthy.

[GD]

Boxcar = not worthy to to deem a post not worthy.

 

Komodo = not worthy to deem someone not worthy to deem a post not worthy.

[Olerud363]

Boxcar = not worthy to to deem a post not worthy.

 

Edelweiss, I don't agree with you sometimes, but I certainly hope I don't insult you. Perhaps I have once or twice, but at the very least I hope I gave some insight into why I disagreed and was insulting you.

 

It was my understanding that the new board was created to prevent people from going way off topic, from using multiple accounts, to prevent a few other crimes, to have at least some law.

 

But it seems that 3 or 4 posters have basically become vigilante admins... if a post isn't up to their standards it gets the old "not worthy Bro!!!"...

 

Ironically this is trolling at it's finest. There is no reason to do this other then to try and get a reaction out of the poster... they have a few other tricks designed only to get a reaction. These guys complain about "Trolls" while trolling the people they consider trolls.

 

Is it that hard to ignore a topic/post that one finds objectional?? The real mods seem to be doing a good job of policing anything truly objectional. If one wants a career in law (message board policing in this case) go through the official channels and become an admin.

 

Back to the topic at hand: Most people agree that the 91st win is more valuable than the 81st, and the 81st perhaps more valueable than the 71st, than the 61st... (though at some point you get into the old "draft position" considerations).

 

If Mr. X. had 8 WAR and hit the playoff spot clinching homer in the bottom of the 9th, and Mr. Y had 8.3 WAR on a 60 win team, I think most people would vote for Mr. X.

 

If Mr. X had 3.5 WAR, 140 rbis (because his team had an awesome leadoff guy) on a 95 win team and Mr. Y. had 10 WAR on a 70 win team, most people would vote for Mr. Y.

 

Sometimes it's obvious... Cabrerra vs. Trout is a little fuzzier. I think Trout deserved it. But it's still something interesting to debate. It depends on how much one values the 91st win, on how much one trusts the advanced defence and baserunning stats.

[GD]

If Mr. X. had 8 WAR and hit the playoff spot clinching homer in the bottom of the 9th, and Mr. Y had 8.3 WAR on a 60 win team, I think most people would vote for Mr. X.

 

This gave me an idea. I substituted RE24 in place of wRAA and recalculated Miggy and Trout's WAR.

 

Miggy is considered pretty clutch, hit like .39x with RISP. But his RE24 was only 3 runs or so higher than his wRAA. Miggy had a 7.9 clutch WAR or whatever you'd like to call it.

 

Meanwhile, Trout's RE24 was like a full win and then some higher than his wRAA. This meant that Trout's new WAR would be 11.6.

 

Just an interesting counter I thought of for some of the "Miggy is clutch tho" arguments.