Mets rumors: Jose Bautista

[GD]

Guys, before we criticize the Phillies any further, let's just remember that we're about a year and a half away from becoming them.

[G-Snarls]

Guys, before we criticize the Phillies any further, let's just remember that we're about a year and a half away from becoming them.

 

It's just so true...

[G-Snarls]

Guys, before we criticize the Phillies any further, let's just remember that we're about a year and a half away from becoming them.

 

We won't quite though if AA (or his replacement) knows he needs to start slowy dealing away guys like Reyes, Bautista and Buerhle after or during the 2014/2015 seasons.

[GD]

We won't quite though if AA (or his replacement) knows he needs to start slowy dealing away guys like Reyes, Bautista and Buerhle after the 2014/2015 seasons.

 

You just know that isn't gonna happen though. :/

[G-Snarls]

You just know that isn't gonna happen though. :/

 

I fear it won't. But I don't know.

[dineke]

They already are the phillies, without the winning part.

[jays_fever]

Guys, before we criticize the Phillies any further, let's just remember that we're about a year and a half away from becoming them.

 

Well we actually have a lot of good players to sell of if a new gm came in and wanted to build this team the proper way. That's what makes this team so frustrating, that we dont need to add more all star type players to the roster, just the much needed 2-2.5 war role players that championship teams have to compliment their stars..not f***ing JP and Izzy

[GD]

Well we actually have a lot of good players to sell of if a new gm came in and wanted to build this team the proper way.

 

yeah.

[Abomination]

Well we actually have a lot of good players to sell of if a new gm came in and wanted to build this team the proper way. That's what makes this team so frustrating, that we dont need to add more all star type players to the roster, just the much needed 2-2.5 war role players that championship teams have to compliment their stars..not f***ing JP and Izzy

 

Izzy pretty much was that kind of player coming into the year. JPA is just bad.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Guys, before we criticize the Phillies any further, let's just remember that we're about a year and a half away from becoming them.

We already are them. A losing team with overpaid vets - how is that any different from us?

[Howard Roark]

And under a Jays plan to contend in 2014 he's a welcome asset on this team. Numerous teams are looking for reliable closers right now,

and many posts on here are basically giving him away just because we have other candidates. There is no harm in just letting Janssen and

Rasmus play out their contract and spend the money saved on filling their other needs.

 

That's some smooth, subtle trolling right there. Splendid job.

[o2cui2i]

No he won't. It would be a PR nightmare.

 

This is a guy who is trying to save his job. The last thing he's going to do is trade the face of the franchise.

 

of course... and that's why JPA wont be traded.

[o2cui2i]

We don't really have any overpaid players outside Romero and maybe Buehrle by a hair. Silver linings!

 

the problem is not what they are paying, it's that they dont know how to evaluate for trades or how to develop on their own. jays need to do a complete rebuild but not of the players. they need to fire all their scouts, coaches, AA and Beeston. then get some people who have an idea of how to structure a team and run a farm system.

[Chappy]

The only real problem is trading young controllable assets for players on contracts that we may have been able to find via FA. AA has done some very good things along with those blunders. I am of the belief that pressure to compete was put on him and that is why he made a complete 180 last winter. Before that he made some excellent trades and signed some great extensions. Fact is as bad as some of those moves seem from last winter, who really could have expected JJ to implode the way he did? Not one person here would have expected that.

 

Our worst contract is Buehrle and even though it's a heavy price tag, Buehrle is a solid and dependable option in our rotation. Our other big contract is Reyes and it's not like he isn't capable of still putting up some big years. Romero is a sunk cost that we will likely never see a return on, but it's not a franchise crippling one. AA might have made some bad trades but he has always been good about contracts. Both Buehrle and Romero have two more years left and we will likely get a reasonable return from Buehrle in that time. Reyes is the only really big gamble contract wise.

 

I don't like some things AA has done, but this team is not crippled. We have movable assets and it can be fixed. AA just might not be around if he doesn't make some savvy moves this winter and get this team into contention.

[Chappy]

We're hard on AA but where would we be without him?

 

We'd have no Rasmus with a massively overpaid Wells in CF (no Gose).

No Lawrie with a huge hole at 3rd.

No Morrow.

No Yunel or Reyes at SS.

No Delabar.

No Sanchez (Comp for Scutaro)

No Syndergaard (turned into Dickey) (Round about comp for Burnett)

No Dickey.

No Santos.

 

Obviously a different GM would make moves and signings as well, but I don't think many other GM's could have pulled off the Rasmus, Wells, Lawrie, Morrow, Delabar, and Yunel trades and some of the compensation abusing (Olivo).

 

He's not a perfect GM, but compared to other GM's in the league (Friedman and Beane excluded) he is not that bad. Beeston is probably more of a problem for this team right now.

 

I agree with this. I am quite interested to see what he does this winter. We all know its likely his make or break year, and I want to see how he goes about getting this team into contention. I am not ready to write him off like so many have already done. It's all about what he learned from his success and failures and if he can find the right pieces for this team without crippling the farm.

[GD]

I still think AA is a pretty mediocre GM, who mainly uses OPS and 2-8 tools scales when evaluating players, but I'm starting to think that he might not be totally incompetent. Someone poison Beeston or something.

[Sammy225]

I still think AA is a pretty mediocre GM, who mainly uses OPS and 2-8 tools scales when evaluating players, but I'm starting to think that he might not be totally incompetent. Someone poison Beeston or something.

 

He is not incompetent. If he was then he would have never build the farm up to where it was a year ago. He is an excellent rebuilding GM. The place where he has issues is making the transition to rebuilding to contending. He did not take a very good approach into last season. He had such a deep farm and in one fail swoop it was gone and that is not how you build a perennial contender.

 

This offseason is going to be a tell tail sign for him and as some think it will be a make or break year for him. I don't want him to go all in like he did last season but I do fore see a lot of moves being made.

 

Going to be an interesting off season.

[G-Snarls]

in one fail swoop

 

Intentional mis-type, Freudian slip or you just though that was the term? Regardless, it's funny.

 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+one+fell+swoop

[Sammy225]

Intentional mis-type or Freudian slip? Either way it's funny.

 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+one+fell+swoop

 

I would like to say it was intentional but it wasn't. Sammy f***ed up. But it works the same way lol.

[DuckDuckGose]

AA has had four years, and has yet to finish above fourth in the division in any of those years. An average team wins a division title every five years, and averages a third-place finish. AA's teams have averaged a 4.25th place finish and, of course, have yet to win the division.

 

Angrioter likes to say baseball is a "zero-sum game". The other teams around the league aren't also averaging 4.25th. Some of you guys act like most teams are losing 90 games a season, making the Blue Jays records acceptable. AA's peers are kicking his butt. Plus he didn't even acquire the two players (EE, Bautista) who have kept the team from finishing dead-last in each of those years.

 

General Managers are evaluated based on Major League results. AA's results are abysmal. That's the bottom line.

 

Just plain false for the AL East.

[CHRIS]

Had he not inherited Edwin and Bautista he'd be considered a laughingstock by the entire baseball community.

 

Had he not inherited Bautista and Edwin, we may not have encountered the dreaded "all-in" phase. Last offseason was likely a by-product (in part) of trying to compete before Bautista's window closes.

[GNick]

Bautista to Reds for one of their starters + Phillips?

[jayswin11]

Wonder if we could get Bruce and Phillips for Bautista and something else in a block buster.

[Angrioter]

Wonder if we could get Bruce and Phillips for Bautista and something else in a block buster.

 

Ban

[ElNik2013]

Had he not inherited Bautista and Edwin, we may not have encountered the dreaded "all-in" phase. Last offseason was likely a by-product (in part) of trying to compete before Bautista's window closes.

 

 

I agree with this. And let's not forget that Bautista's emergence was a huge surprise and it took place in 2010, which was AA's 1st season as the GM. People also seem to forget that EE was released by the Blue Jays and by Billy Beane before being resigned by AA.

 

I think, in hindsight, the team might've been better off selling high on Bautista after 2010 or 2011 and on EE in July 2012, but I can see why they would try and give it a shot with both of them instead of going for the full rebuild and pinning their hopes on A or AA prospects developing.

 

I have no problem with firing AA, but I think firing AA and keeping Beeston is useless. I also think that ownership wants to sell hype and interest in the team above having efficient and sustainable success. Anyway...

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I agree with this. And let's not forget that Bautista's emergence was a huge surprise and it took place in 2010, which was AA's 1st season as the GM. People also seem to forget that EE was released by the Blue Jays and by Billy Beane before being resigned by AA.

 

I think, in hindsight, the team might've been better off selling high on Bautista after 2010 or 2011 and on EE in July 2012, but I can see why they would try and give it a shot with both of them instead of going for the full rebuild and pinning their hopes on A or AA prospects developing.

 

I have no problem with firing AA, but I think firing AA and keeping Beeston is useless. I also think that ownership wants to sell hype and interest in the team above having efficient and sustainable success. Anyway...

 

I rarely have seen successful teams trade away their best players coming off great seasons unless they are on an expiring contract and/or will likely command more money then the team budget allows. So this kind of idea that these players need to be traded at their peak ( and its a hindsight peak just like novice traders think they can call stocks at their top values ) is basically not practical and often not good practice either. Should the Red Sox have traded away David Ortiz years ago, a man who actually was older and more likely to decline then our guys are right now ? I have a hard time thinking about examples of guys that were traded, maybe Alex Rodriguez to Texas, how did that work out long term for the Mariners ? Sure there are a few good examples but I think its a fairly rare event when a true star for prospect trade occurs.

 

In my opinion, Bautista and EE were untouchable through this year because with them we had some shot of winning and without them forget it we had ZERO chance of winning and a boring team to boot ( think Mariners again as an example ). For next season, I think moving Bautista now is doable and the time might be right, but only if its for full value plus. Simply keeping Bautista for 2-3 years is NOT a bad decision, if market conditions dictate this. There is no shame in keeping your best players until their contracts run out. I don't see anyone criticizing the Yankees here for signing any number of older players for big money ( eg Jeter for $12M, Soriano makes a mint ). So the idea we made a mistake somehow not trading Bautista is not a good theory really in my opinion.

 

Jays in the late 1980s kept almost all their stars and added a few high profile free agents like Molitar, Winfield, Morris, even Rickey Henderson at an advancing age. There was never any talk about trading away our core stars for prospects.

[oakville69]

I agree with this. And let's not forget that Bautista's emergence was a huge surprise and it took place in 2010, which was AA's 1st season as the GM. People also seem to forget that EE was released by the Blue Jays and by Billy Beane before being resigned by AA.

 

I think, in hindsight, the team might've been better off selling high on Bautista after 2010 or 2011 and on EE in July 2012, but I can see why they would try and give it a shot with both of them instead of going for the full rebuild and pinning their hopes on A or AA prospects developing.

 

I have no problem with firing AA, but I think firing AA and keeping Beeston is useless. I also think that ownership wants to sell hype and interest in the team above having efficient and sustainable success. Anyway...

 

A team with Bautista & EE for a full season should be able to have a potent offense. The Jays wasted too many years in developing mode & haven't been able to develop players internally.

 

AA made the correct move. Use the high value prospects which probably won't succeed under Jays development & trade them for MLB talent.

[GD]

For whatever it's worth I just had a Rangers fan tell me that it'd be tough but in the end they'd do Holland + Profar for Bautista

 

I was honest and told him we'd win that like hell but hey if he wants it haha

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

A team with Bautista & EE for a full season should be able to have a potent offense. The Jays wasted too many years in developing mode & haven't been able to develop players internally.

 

AA made the correct move. Use the high value prospects which probably won't succeed under Jays development & trade them for MLB talent.

 

The Jays plan to go for it in 2013 was the right time and the right move. It was the execution of it that was bad. Choosing Josh Johnson, Melky Cabrera, JPA, Mark Buerhle etc as key guys on the team blew up in their face ( Buerhle did ok but his contract is awful ). Dickey actually was a good acquisition but what they paid in talent to get him was too high a price UNLESS they had an ironclad winning team this year and he put them over the top. Didn't happen, but we'll see if 2014 is any better.

 

Part of the execution issues are the inability to acquire useful free agents, something the Jays have always been able to do even on much lower payrolls. This seems to be one of AAs weaknesses more then an actual unwillingness of players to come to Toronto. I'd rather they break the mold and overpay for Cano then give up any more top prospects, not that I'm saying Cano is necessarily their smartest choice but they do need to bring in a star player without losing important current or future assets.

[ElNik2013]

I rarely have seen successful teams trade away their best players coming off great seasons unless they are on an expiring contract and/or will likely command more money then the team budget allows. So this kind of idea that these players need to be traded at their peak ( and its a hindsight peak just like novice traders think they can call stocks at their top values ) is basically not practical and often not good practice either. Should the Red Sox have traded away David Ortiz years ago, a man who actually was older and more likely to decline then our guys are right now ? I have a hard time thinking about examples of guys that were traded, maybe Alex Rodriguez to Texas, how did that work out long term for the Mariners ? Sure there are a few good examples but I think its a fairly rare event when a true star for prospect trade occurs.

 

In my opinion, Bautista and EE were untouchable through this year because with them we had some shot of winning and without them forget it we had ZERO chance of winning and a boring team to boot ( think Mariners again as an example ). For next season, I think moving Bautista now is doable and the time might be right, but only if its for full value plus. Simply keeping Bautista for 2-3 years is NOT a bad decision, if market conditions dictate this. There is no shame in keeping your best players until their contracts run out. I don't see anyone criticizing the Yankees here for signing any number of older players for big money ( eg Jeter for $12M, Soriano makes a mint ). So the idea we made a mistake somehow not trading Bautista is not a good theory really in my opinion.

 

Jays in the late 1980s kept almost all their stars and added a few high profile free agents like Molitar, Winfield, Morris, even Rickey Henderson at an advancing age. There was never any talk about trading away our core stars for prospects.

 

 

I said in hindsight they might've been better off trading Bautista after 2010/2011 because they didn't have much else to build around so trading their best player to build for the future might've been better. I also said I can see why they decided to instead try and build around him and when they lucked out on EE, they had another building block, the problem is that the team around them was still not good enough so it put them under the gun to speed up the process. Anyway.