Alex Anthopoulos Vs JP Ricciardi: 2013 edition

[Caper]

Did you ever hear Keith Law talking about working for JP and the Jays?... How bad they were at drafting back then.

[KingKat]

Did you ever hear Keith Law talking about working for JP and the Jays?... How bad they were at drafting back then.

 

Oh they were bad but they also stuck to slot which limits your options considerably.

[KingKat]

JP had to give up his franchise player (Delgado) for nothing because of a no-trade clause and a (legitimate) fear he would accept arb. AA was able to replenish his farm on the Halladay trade. JP couldn't go over slot in his drafts; AA has had carte blanche. JP had less money to work and didn't have the same opportunities to replenish the farm that AA did and in spite of all this, JP fielded better teams. This is a no brainer for me.

[mitchf]

Moogy just spoke the truth. Well said.

[Dick_Pole]

I find both GMs to be rather despicably vacant creatures, so I wish to defend neither of them, nor do I really care at all which was better, because it's no more a worthwhile pursuit than deciding which turd your dog "placed" on the living room carpet is less offensive. But your descriptions of AA vis-a-vis JP, are over-the-top.

 

 

I don't entirely agree with everything you said, but I just peed a little laughing at that paragraph. Well said in terms of comedic factor and in its accurate portrayal of the two parties in question.

[jays4life19]

Just finished Shi Davidi's book ' Great Expectations.

 

One thing relevant to this thread that i was unaware of was the fact it was AA who wanted to pursue Joey Bats once the Pirates put him on waivers and got Jp's "Blessing" to make the deal in which he orchestrated Robinzon Diaz for Joey Bats.

 

Also, It's not like JP "wanted" EE. Infact....he really didn't want to take EE at all. He had to take him in order to get both Zack Stewart and Josh Roenicke. Which both flamed out fairly quick. So you can't really give JP credit at all for that deal. He was forced to take EE to get prospects which ultimately busted.

Edited December 26, 2013 by jays4life19

[raBBit]

I always defended JPR on the old board and took a lot of heat for it. Besides not making the big trades, and got a little carried away when he was given some cash, JPR did a pretty good job here.

 

As evident by all the postseason appearances.

[Atothe]

Get the f*** out of here with this "he built a farm system" garbage. He hasn't given us one legitimate position player prospect in his three drafts.

 

50% of these pitchers will have their arms blown off by Double A. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. When Alex translate a prospect into a player, we can start talking about his eye for the draft.

 

Tell me how he can bring a legitimate position player to the majors when they haven't drafted a college position player or rarely drafted a position player in those three years. Your argument is flawed. Four drafts and you're proclaiming it all failures smh. Tell me that when Syndergaard, Sanchez, Nicolino and Stroman are all pitching in the majors this year

[ElNik2013]

Tell me how he can bring a legitimate position player to the majors when they haven't drafted a college position player or rarely drafted a position player in those three years. Your argument is flawed. Four drafts and you're proclaiming it all failures smh. Tell me that when Syndergaard, Sanchez, Nicolino and Stroman are all pitching in the majors this year

 

 

 

Plus he acquired position players like Rasmus, Lawrie, Escobar, D'Arnaud and Gose in trades. Another thing, so many complain about AA trading away so much of the farm last off season, me included, but then turn around and bash his drafting and player development and say the franchise can't draft or develop players? Kind of contradictory.

 

I'm not trying to defend AA, I think he took huge risks last off season and will ultimate either pay for them with his job or be rewarded with an extension.

 

Ultimate, I believe franchises are built from top to bottom by owners and sometimes team presidents.

[Atothe]

Plus he acquired position players like Rasmus, Lawrie, Escobar, D'Arnaud and Gose in trades. Another thing, so many complain about AA trading away so much of the farm last off season, me included, but then turn around and bash his drafting and player development and say the franchise can't draft or develop players? Kind of contradictory.

 

I'm not trying to defend AA, I think he took huge risks last off season and will ultimate either pay for them with his job or be rewarded with an extension.

 

Ultimate, I believe franchises are built from top to bottom by owners and sometimes team presidents.

 

This is why i feel the hate for A.A has gone too far. He's bad at constructing a major league playoff team but his drafting has been anything but a failure. Too early to even debate it.

[jays4life19]

This is why i feel the hate for A.A has gone too far. He's bad at constructing a major league playoff team but his drafting has been anything but a failure. Too early to even debate it.

 

After reading Shi's book about 2013 i like AA alot more.

 

The Marlins trade was s***. Clearly AA didn't have a boner for it since he called it off since the Marlins wanted Jeff Mathis (lol) but Beeston forced the issue since their "selling entertainment". Once you make that trade you need to go for it. Yeah, he grossly overpaid for Dickey.....not alot of other options and we clearly still needed pitching. (especially in hindsight) He tried for Sanchez and the book seems to show he try's to use the FA market more then we give him credit for.

 

We all thought Baltimore had a lucky season. The Yankees were s***. Tampa didn't have the offense...and the Red Sox just finished last place. Beeston Gambled and he busted. AA is a decent GM. Maybe not top 5....but I'll take him.

[Angrioter]

Bump

[Dick_Pole]

Bump

 

Anthopolous is still better...though it's getting harder for me to type that.

[Boxcar]

I agree, but if we're going to crucify him, let's do it for the right reasons.

 

When he made the trade with Miami, we were worried it wasn't going to be approved because it was such a fleecing by AA. The city was buzzing about the Jays all winter. At the time it seemed like the best trade in Blue Jays history. It didn't work out, and now AA has to take it on the chin, but at least he had the balls to try it.

 

Unfortunately this is the part where he enters desperation mode and instead of making logical trades that are good for the organization, he's more likely to trade more prospects to plug more holes and probably end up with the same result next year in an effort to save his job.

 

Man, if you thought the Miami trade was a fleecing, you need a bit more understanding on how baseball works.

[Boxcar]

"I don't agree with AA gutting our minor leagues but he at least built one. I also believe Rogers and Beeston pushed these moves . I don't think AA would have done it had it been his choice ."

 

If that's the case and Alex had no say in what happened then he should spitefully bury the farm and go all-in leaving Beeston and Rogers holding the bag of sh*t at the end.

 

I'm sorry (and I'm not directing this at you) but anyone who, after all that's happened and all he's said to this point, thinks that all of this is out of AA's hands is an idiot. Plain and simple.

 

This guy talks and talks and it is so PAINFULLY obvious that he has no f***ing clue what he's doing and certain people still insist he's blameless and it's all Beeston's fault.

 

Are you f***ing kidding me?

[Boxcar]

Where's the Gillick, option?

 

I was fooled, I honestly thought AA was using Pats model, if Beeston doesn't get out of Alex ear, he should quit, JP, should've done the same with that moron Godfrey. The proverbial 180 makes zero sense.

 

I'm still of belief Alex gets a shitload more cash this winter?! Sit back and enjoy the show.

 

P.S. f*** off with the it's a Managers fault fallacy!!!!

 

JPR didn't have a choice. I think that, if JPR had been allowed to trade Wells for MATT KEMP AND Chad Billingsley, he'd have constructed an easy 90+ win team at some point, considering the savings from the Wells deal. Has no one worked in a big company? You do what your boss tells you and that's that, he didn't have a say in the Wells contract.

[Boxcar]

Offensively, the team struggled heavily and I was disappointed that the Jays never went out and acquired a big bat when they needed one.

 

Like Barry Bonds?

[Boxcar]

There were are a lot of posters (even prominent one's) on here praising AA before the season started, and it's funny how things change after one season.

 

A lot of people have been down on AA since the offseason after 2012.

[Boxcar]

I'd like to know what people's opinions are on what changed.

 

I am of the mind that he got lucky early on and just happened to target good value that coincided with scout-friendly attributes.

 

Mozeliak is really the only upper-tier GM I'd say who he got the better of, and it's probably going to be inconsequential in the end. Not hard to rip off Jack Zduriencik all day.

[GD]

JPR didn't have a choice. I think that, if JPR had been allowed to trade Wells for MATT KEMP AND Chad Billingsley, he'd have constructed an easy 90+ win team at some point, considering the savings from the Wells deal.

 

Wait, did this actually nearly happen?

[Boxcar]

Wait, did this actually nearly happen?

 

Apparently. I also just realized I was responding to posts from October...Im dum

[Boxcar]

Beeston's "selling entertainment" mentality is the exact kind of philosophy I could see tying AA's hands and forcing him into trades like the Dickey one. Dickey was a once domestically abused baseball anomaly coming off a Cy Young season, you couldn't create a more marketable, media-friendly story and I wouldn't be surprised at all to one day find out that it was Beeston and co. that told Alex to make that trade. Prospects don't sell jerseys, prospects don't write books and prospects don't get long press conferences in front of the national sports media where they get to display their wide range of vocabulary.

 

Seeing AA taking his merry f***ing time on acquiring a pitcher in this market, for prospects that are lesser than what he gave for Dickey, makes me think that he wasn't the only one behind that trade.

 

Ugh, apologists.

[Boxcar]

hell let's call up Chuck LaMar

 

They already did.

[Boxcar]

I think you're better off have all pitching prospects. You can always trade pitching for legitimate position players... Much harder the other way around. I'm beginning to think, that your better off having your entire top 10 prospects be solid starting pitching prospects, then any kind of a balance.

 

You're not basing this on any tangible data (which is available to anyone.)

 

Fact is, stocking your system with pitchers is a bad idea.

[TwistedLogic]

Apparently, multi-quoting is no longer a thing.

[GD]

I couldn't agree more, Beeston and Godfrey are two asshats in a pod.

 

lol

 

Apparently, multi-quoting is no longer a thing.

 

Are you saying it's not working? Cause if not, I guess I'm just magic.

[John_Havok]

What's really sad is that a great GM would be a hybrid between the two. AA's ability to build a farm coupled with Ricciardi's bigger belief in sabermetric analysis and willingness to actually pay free agents to play in Toronto... one can't keep his mouth shut and the other won't say s*** if his mouth was full of it... a happy medium would be nice.

[Boxcar]

Apparently, multi-quoting is no longer a thing.

 

Whining about trivial things apparently still is, though.

[Chappy]

What's really sad is that a great GM would be a hybrid between the two. AA's ability to build a farm coupled with Ricciardi's bigger belief in sabermetric analysis and willingness to actually pay free agents to play in Toronto... one can't keep his mouth shut and the other won't say s*** if his mouth was full of it... a happy medium would be nice.

 

So basically one is a pussy and the other is a dick.

[John_Havok]

Yup, and you know what happens? Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get f***ed by dicks.