Can Ryan Goins stick?

[Omar]

Ryan Goins sucks and should have retired years ago.

 

He was mildly interesting for a year but otherwise I couldn't stand when he was on the team. I think because he was bald and hit left handed the casuals thought he was actually good.

 

He also had a very inflated ego for a player with a career WAR of 0.1. I seem to remember him being the guy who screwed up the pop up against KC in the playoffs too.

 

Are you forgetting the Canada Day game where he came in and pitched? Heroic.

[Terminator]

Are you forgetting the Canada Day game where he came in and pitched? Heroic.

 

Tbh the one positive thing I remember him for on the field was yelling as he crossed home plate on Bautista's bat flip bomb.

[Dick_Pole]

One of the first "good" baseball cards I remembered getting was Chris Sabo, back when he was ROY. A dorky looking guy who was someone an awkward 8-9 year old could relate to. If you asked me to name a Cincinnati Reds player on the spot, he's probably the first one that'll come to my mind before Rose, Votto, Seaver or anyone else.

 

If you look at Sabo's stats, he is the archetype of a decent average veteran player that most casual baseball fans who watched in that era would know. You could argue that he makes a pretty good cut-off point from "average" where anyone above him would be considered a minor star. Ryan Goins lasted as many years as Sabo, though admittedly half the games and plate appearances over that time. He stuck just fine.

[Spanky99]

One of the first "good" baseball cards I remembered getting was Chris Sabo, back when he was ROY. A dorky looking guy who was someone an awkward 8-9 year old could relate to. If you asked me to name a Cincinnati Reds player on the spot, he's probably the first one that'll come to my mind before Rose, Votto, Seaver or anyone else.

 

If you look at Sabo's stats, he is the archetype of a decent average veteran player that most casual baseball fans who watched in that era would know. You could argue that he makes a pretty good cut-off point from "average" where anyone above him would be considered a minor star. Ryan Goins lasted as many years as Sabo, though admittedly half the games and plate appearances over that time. He stuck just fine.

 

Sabo and Goins were nothing alike, who cares if Goins stuck, he was f***in' garbage, had a mitt, that was it.

[BTS]

This thread had me looking at some of the worst players of all-time, for obvious reasons. Somehow Ryan Doumit was allowed to accrue -8.6 career fWAR, but from 2005-2014 when teams were analytically savvy. Basically every other terrible player with enough games to accrue big negative value happened before sabermetrics were a thing.

 

Doumit had -3.4 fWAR in 2008, despite putting up a 123 wRC+ and catching 106 games. -63 framing runs! That's 6.3 wins nuked from bad framing.

[Laika]

This thread had me looking at some of the worst players of all-time, for obvious reasons. Somehow Ryan Doumit was allowed to accrue -8.6 career fWAR, but from 2005-2014 when teams were analytically savvy. Basically every other terrible player with enough games to accrue big negative value happened before sabermetrics were a thing.

 

Doumit had -3.4 fWAR in 2008, despite putting up a 123 wRC+ and catching 106 games. -63 framing runs! That's 6.3 wins nuked from bad framing.

 

IIRC there were changes done to the WAR calculation that completely rekt Doumit's numbers, post-career. Like he went from a slightly above replacement level catcher to the worst catcher ever and worst framer in history.

[Terminator]

This thread had me looking at some of the worst players of all-time, for obvious reasons. Somehow Ryan Doumit was allowed to accrue -8.6 career fWAR, but from 2005-2014 when teams were analytically savvy. Basically every other terrible player with enough games to accrue big negative value happened before sabermetrics were a thing.

 

Doumit had -3.4 fWAR in 2008, despite putting up a 123 wRC+ and catching 106 games. -63 framing runs! That's 6.3 wins nuked from bad framing.

 

Holy s***. I remember him. I vaguely remember the pitch framing issues he had. The dude could hit though! He probably would have been a decent player if they didn't try and make him catch. Those defensive numbers are UGLY.

[BTS]

IIRC there were changes done to the WAR calculation that completely rekt Doumit's numbers, post-career. Like he went from a slightly above replacement level catcher to the worst catcher ever and worst framer in history.

 

2.1 fWAR in 279 PA in 2007, when there was no framing data. Then we get framing data in 2008 and he's suddenly the worst player in history. If we had framing data for his entire career he'd be at, like, -13 fWAR.

 

He could hit, so Pittsburgh probably thought they had a nice young player on their hands.

[Terminator]

2.1 fWAR in 279 PA in 2007, when there was no framing data. Then we get framing data in 2008 and he's suddenly the worst player in history. If we had framing data for his entire career he'd be at, like, -13 fWAR.

 

He could hit, so Pittsburgh probably thought they had a nice young player on their hands.

 

On the flipside you have Jose Molina who had -0.2 WAR in 69 games (nice) in 2007 and then 3.6 WAR in 2008 in 100 games.

[Terminator]

I completely forgot that Jose Molina was our backup Catcher for a couple of years. He balled out too.

[Brownie19]

On the flipside you have Jose Molina who had -0.2 WAR in 69 games (nice) in 2007 and then 3.6 WAR in 2008 in 100 games.

 

In 2008, Jose Molina was worth 3.6 WAR in 100 games (297 PA's) while posting a wRC+ of 51 and obviously providing negative value on the bases. Unreal.

[Terminator]

He probably could have made a run at 60 WAR (HoF threshold) if he would have been given full playing time starting in the late 90s.

[Brownie19]

There are a lot more names I recognize when you search for the lowest career WAR amongst pitchers.

 

Pat Mahomes - 2nd worst pitcher of all-time!

Mitch Williams - 7th worst

Canadian Lance Cormier -11th

Sean O'Sullivan - 15th

 

And 8th overall pick, Alan Mills is 1st.