Reverse Standings Thread

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Not to mention the gate it draws when we're winning, it helps the team financially and the team buzz as you mentioned moving forward, it's imperative that we finish strong this year, and come out guns a blazing next year. The fans money will keep this engine running. People don't seem to get if we continue to lose, it will only get worse considering financial flexibility in year 3 of the FO's plan. We're f***ed if we lose all that momentum this club gained. I'm not into watching another rebuild, win and keep this engine moving. Money coming in will help sustain a successful club, period.

 

Yes, the whole idea of tanking is a losers mentality. Really bad baseball teams tend to stay there for 4-6 years. This is not a bad team at all. The same people who predicted they were first or second this year have completely shifted their view for next year. Based on what ? A middle of the pack team which was disrupted by early injuries ( Lawrie/Reyes/Morrow ) and two key additions bombed ( Johnson/Cabrera ). If they add 2 or 3 players again this off season and get lucky on their choices they'll be a strong team next year.

 

Sometimes I think some people on here are happier when its a bad team, and a complete rebuild would ensure they can complain for 5 more years.

[DuckDuckGose]

That's a great point but I still think the benefits gained from tanking are outweighed by the detriments. Especially when you have a GM who isn't going to be rebuilding with his stated 3 year window.

 

At this point I'm rooting for individuals, not wins or losses. I don't think tanking is ever a great idea in baseball, too much uncertainty in the draft. That being said the best thing that could happen for the Jays is the dead weight performs like dead weight (showing AA he needs to replace them), the stars play like stars, and the young players and farm take a step forward. Wins will be more enjoyable to watch then the losses. The rest I'm apathetic to.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

I employ selective rooting. Root for Lawrie, Dickey, Buehrle and others to put together a good stretch as they'll be counted on in 2014, but root against Arencibia, Bonifacio, and the guys we don't want on the team next year at all costs. Overall I want them to finish with less than 90 losses so it's not seen as a totally abysmal season.

 

I'd rather it be viewed as a totally abysmal season. If it just looks bad/mediocre, Beeston and AA get a free pass to ruin the team even more. If our record is atrocious, Rogers may consider firing those bums.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Really bad baseball teams tend to stay there for 4-6 years.

We've stayed there for 20 years and counting.

 

This is not a bad team at all.

LOL, cut the ********. We have eyes. You're not selling tickets for the same old crap next year no matter how you spin it.

 

If they add 2 or 3 players again this off season and get lucky on their choices they'll be a strong team next year.

Luck is not a strategy.

 

Sometimes I think some people on here are happier when its a bad team, and a complete rebuild would ensure they can complain for 5 more years.

Can't speak for everyone but I'll be happy when we have a consistent winner and a competent organization. Neither is happening at the moment.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I think it's confirmed that Troller Heads Prevail is a Rogers employee sent to this forum to defend the team

 

You and FireAss have no idea how to build a winner. The best example of a team that actually followed your approach to "team building" was the last few years of the Montreal Expos. You'd have loved their approach, trade all your expensive veterans for a bunch of prospects and hope they develop. Absolutely gutted the franchise.

[DuckDuckGose]

You and FireAss have no idea how to build a winner. The best example of a team that actually followed your approach to "team building" was the last few years of the Montreal Expos. You'd have loved their approach, trade all your expensive veterans for a bunch of prospects and hope they develop. Absolutely gutted the franchise.

 

Ya, we would have all made some of the dumbest trades in MLB history. You're the only one here that realizes those were bad deals. I suggest you hush your fingers and use your brain. You aren't in Fairyland anymore. No one here is suggesting gutting the team for prospects. They are suggesting shedding payroll for valuable long-term assets, then using the open payroll to hopefully improve the team and field a winner.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

So how's the jays "trade every prospect for old expensive injury prone former star player" approach working out? It's not

 

I have never said anything about an all out rebuild, so stop making s*** up.

 

One year in a plan is nothing.

 

I don't care to argue semantics ( "all out rebuild" ), but I could quote several of your posts that are definately a rebuild. I guess the reason

you think they aren't a rebuild is you expect guys like Profar to be stars in 2014. I am more realistic, a guy who can't crack the line up in 2013

likely isn't going to be a star in 2014.

[Boxcar]

One year in a plan is nothing.

 

I don't care to argue semantics ( "all out rebuild" ), but I could quote several of your posts that are definately a rebuild. I guess the reason

you think they aren't a rebuild is you expect guys like Profar to be stars in 2014. I am more realistic, a guy who can't crack the line up in 2013

likely isn't going to be a star in 2014.

 

I always remember a comic that said "if you put an A in 'definitely,' then you're definitely an a-hole."

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

[KSaw]

Tank time?

 

They won't be tanking. They have 3 with Houston, 1 with the White Sox, games at home with the Angels, who have packed it in and a ton of games with the free falling turmoil team known as the New York Yankees. Also keep in mind that the Jays' depth of relievers makes them one of the best constructed September teams in baseball with the expanded rosters. They almost can't help but make up the 7 games under .500 and then some and even pass the Yankees. Shame they threw away the season so early. Watch them win 83-84 games and frustrate all of us by missing the playoffs by 7 or 8 games.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

You and FireAss have no idea how to build a winner.

LOL, and you do? Your plan of throwing money at overrated big-name losers has turned this franchise into a laughingstock already.

 

The best example of a team that actually followed your approach to "team building" was the last few years of the Montreal Expos. You'd have loved their approach, trade all your expensive veterans for a bunch of prospects and hope they develop. Absolutely gutted the franchise.

Hey dumbass, I was an Expos fan, and you're so wrong, it's ridiculous. Nearly every great player we ever had came up through the farm system. The worst move in Expos history by far was trading Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips - all prospects drafted and developed by the Expos - for a half-year rental of Bartolo Colon. To this day, that trade is regarded as one of the worst in the history of baseball, but that's the type of move that you are shilling for to sell tickets.

[championshipmoments]

Since we have a protected 1st rounder, does it matter? Remember, this year's free agent crop is expected to be lousy. At the moment, draft pick comp is expect to go to:

 

Robinson Cano(no surprise)

Jacoby Ellsbury

Brian McCann

Shin Soo-Choo

Kuroda(but it's likely Japan or NYY at a bloated rate considering their lousy rotation, due to Pettite, Sabathia and Hughes' declines and lack of farm depth.)

Ervin Santana

Carlos Beltran(too old!)

AJ Burnett

Chase Utley

Mike Napoli

Nelson Cruz

Tim Lincecum

 

Remember, there's no guarantee they get QO's... at a price of $14M/year or so, most teams won't bite.

 

The jays need to add big name free agents next year. That is something that the jays have not done ever in their franshise. The blue jays as of right now need an upgrade on 2b sp, c and lf (melky is not working for them and wont work for them next year aswell)

If the jays really want to win then they should sign robby cano, brian mccan, ellsbury, ervin sanatan and lincecum. I am not saying that they should sign all 5 of these free agents but they should try to sign as many as they can from the top free agents list and these players would help out the jays alot an turn them into instant contenders

[4thOFan]

From lock to make the playoffs to looking at the reverse standings. Yikes!

[P2F]

From lock to make the playoffs to looking at the reverse standings. Yikes!

 

It is what it is.

[KSaw]

The jays need to add big name free agents next year. That is something that the jays have not done ever in their franshise. The blue jays as of right now need an upgrade on 2b sp, c and lf (melky is not working for them and wont work for them next year aswell)

If the jays really want to win then they should sign robby cano, brian mccan, ellsbury, ervin sanatan and lincecum. I am not saying that they should sign all 5 of these free agents but they should try to sign as many as they can from the top free agents list and these players would help out the jays alot an turn them into instant contenders

 

The only name that jumps out is McCann. Expect him to look for 5 years and $70 million. Watch him take 4 years and $57 million. Toronto could jump in and I hope that AA does.

[ace3113]

Current reverse standings with my tentative mock.

 

1. Houston (.322) - Carlos Rodon

2. Miami (.381) - Trea Turner

3. Chicago W (.390) - Tyler Beede

4. Milwaukee (.437) - Michael Cederoth

5. Chicago C (.437) - Tyler Kolek

6. San Francisco (.441) - Jacob Gatewood

7. Philadelphia (.445) - Alex Jackson

8. Los Angeles A (.449) - Jeff Hoffman

9. Minnesota (.453) - Touki Toussaint

10. Toronto (.454) - Dylan Cease / Michael Gettys / Gregory Deichmann

11. Toronto (Comp) - Sean Reid-Foley / Kyle Schwarber / Derek Hill

[GD]

I want Jackson

 

We need to finish behind/ahead of/f*** it, tank better than Philly. Toissant would be cool too though.

[theblujay]

Current reverse standings with my tentative mock.

 

1. Houston (.322) - Carlos Rodon

2. Miami (.381) - Trea Turner

3. Chicago W (.390) - Tyler Beede

4. Milwaukee (.437) - Michael Cederoth

5. Chicago C (.437) - Tyler Kolek

6. San Francisco (.441) - Jacob Gatewood

7. Philadelphia (.445) - Alex Jackson

8. Los Angeles A (.449) - Jeff Hoffman

9. Minnesota (.453) - Touki Toussaint

10. Toronto (.454) - Dylan Cease / Michael Gettys / Gregory Deichmann

11. Toronto (Comp) - Sean Reid-Foley / Kyle Schwarber / Derek Hill

 

I've heard of all of them except the 6 you listed for the Jays haha.

[DuckDuckGose]

Current reverse standings with my tentative mock.

 

1. Houston (.322) - Carlos Rodon

2. Miami (.381) - Trea Turner

3. Chicago W (.390) - Tyler Beede

4. Milwaukee (.437) - Michael Cederoth

5. Chicago C (.437) - Tyler Kolek

6. San Francisco (.441) - Jacob Gatewood

7. Philadelphia (.445) - Alex Jackson

8. Los Angeles A (.449) - Jeff Hoffman

9. Minnesota (.453) - Touki Toussaint

10. Toronto (.454) - Dylan Cease / Michael Gettys / Gregory Deichmann

11. Toronto (Comp) - Sean Reid-Foley / Kyle Schwarber / Derek Hill

 

I'm really hoping one of Rodon or Beede drops to 10. Obviously at this point it's early in the draft process but, I think both are front-end SP's.

[GD]

I'm really hoping one of Rodon or Beede drops to 10. Obviously at this point it's early in the draft process but, I think both are front-end SP's.

 

I would put the chance of this at 0.00001%.

 

Also, wouldn't we need Beede's permission to redraft him?

[ace3113]

I've heard of all of them except the 6 you listed for the Jays haha.

 

I'll have a write up for a lot of them soon. For now a quick summary. For each.

 

Dylan Cease RHP - Fastball 91-94 up to 97. Free and easy. Nice looking slider.

Michael Gettys OF/RHP - Two way player. 6.4 running speed. 100mph from the outfield (92-94 from mound). Plus plus power.

Gregory Deichmann 3B - Power hitting third baseman with plus plus bat speed. Very good athlete (6.72 runner) with strong arm.

Sean Reid-Foley RHP - big hard-throwing pitcher with 91-94 fastball up to 96. Arguably best breaking ball among high schoolers.

Kyle Schwarber C/OF - Best college hitter in the class. Lefty with chance to hit for power and average as well as get on base.

(2013) 221ab .376/.468/.674 18hr 54rbi 10(2b) 1(3b) 42bb 30so 4sb 3cs - Hit .343 with 8 homeruns in the Cape Cod League

Derek Hill OF - 5 tool centerfielder with strong arm. Very fast. Makes highlight reel catches in center. Hitting tools look good. Bloodlines.

 

Here's some good video of Foley sitting 93-94 and hitting 96 with a plus curve.

 

 

Here's Derek Hills catch at the PG National.

 

 

A couple other catches of his.

 

 

[GD]

How's Hill's hitting? Looks amazing out there in CF.

[DuckDuckGose]

I would put the chance of this at 0.00001%.

 

Also, wouldn't we need Beede's permission to redraft him?

 

I can see one of them dropping, it's going to take an injury or bonus demands to scare teams off. Happens every year though. Still a long ways to the draft and a lot of things can change.

[DuckDuckGose]

I'll have a write up for a lot of them soon. For now a quick summary. For each.

 

Dylan Cease RHP - Fastball 91-94 up to 97. Free and easy. Nice looking slider.

Michael Gettys OF/RHP - Two way player. 6.4 running speed. 100mph from the outfield (92-94 from mound). Plus plus power.

Gregory Deichmann 3B - Power hitting third baseman with plus plus bat speed. Very good athlete (6.72 runner) with strong arm.

Sean Reid-Foley RHP - big hard-throwing pitcher with 91-94 fastball up to 96. Arguably best breaking ball among high schoolers.

Kyle Schwarber C/OF - Best college hitter in the class. Lefty with chance to hit for power and average as well as get on base.

(2013) 221ab .376/.468/.674 18hr 54rbi 10(2b) 1(3b) 42bb 30so 4sb 3cs - Hit .343 with 8 homeruns in the Cape Cod League

Derek Hill OF - 5 tool centerfielder with strong arm. Very fast. Makes highlight reel catches in center. Hitting tools look good. Bloodlines.

 

Here's some good video of Foley sitting 93-94 and hitting 96 with a plus curve.

 

 

Here's Derek Hills catch at the PG National.

 

 

A couple other catches of his.

 

 

 

 

All sound like AA kind of targets.

[P2F]

Also, wouldn't we need Beede's permission to redraft him?

 

Not sure if rhetorical, but yes.

[GD]

Not sure if rhetorical, but yes.

 

Wasn't rhetorical. Wasn't sure. Thanks.

[ace3113]

I can see one of them dropping, it's going to take an injury or bonus demands to scare teams off. Happens every year though. Still a long ways to the draft and a lot of things can change.

 

Keith Law for one doesn't think Beede's a top 10 player.

[ace3113]

How's Hill's hitting? Looks amazing out there in CF.

 

You're right about the defense. I love how in the clip a guy in the crowd is like "No one's getting to that," and then you see Hill come out of nowhere and get to it.

 

As far as his hitting he hit well at the PG national. There's footage of it but I've been too lazy to check it out yet. Here's him hitting 2 homeruns in a game FWIW.

 

[DuckDuckGose]

Keith Law for one doesn't think Beede's a top 10 player.

 

I've never gotten on the Law bandwagon, I find him too stubborn in his opinions. Good to know though, he has to be one of the few national sources that doesn't have him top 5.

[P2F]

Wasn't rhetorical. Wasn't sure. Thanks.

 

No prob!

[DuckDuckGose]

Wasn't rhetorical. Wasn't sure. Thanks.

 

Ya, sorry I missed that part of the question. I can't see this being an issue though. By all accounts Beede's decision to return to school was amicable. This isn't a Paxton like situation. If he's going top 10 I doubt the Jays have a problem paying him now and there shouldn't be hard feelings. Perhaps Beede was thrown off by the fan backlash against him but, there isn't a fan base out there who wouldn't be upset at their 1st rounder walking away from a huge bonus.