What's wrong with Kevin Pillar?

[Arkadium]

32nd round pick of the Blue Jays in 2011

 

-Never hit below .313 in the minors

-High OBP guy- career .373

-Great speed- career 75 for 100 SB- gets a lot of IF hits because of speed

-Really low SO rate

-Still young at 24

-Plays OF, apparently has good range- plus 15 assists already this year

-Midwest league MVP in 2012

 

Apparently scouts see him as a 4th OF type of guy... I don't see it but then I'm not a scout? I guess he doesn't have a well defined jaw or hot girlfriend? AA was quoted saying "reports are that he's ready to come if we have a need".

 

I'd like to see him instead of a crippled Melky Cabrera. At the very least please call him up in September! And please for the love of God no more Gose.

[Tuco]

What's wrong with him?

 

Prolly the fact he actually has a "hit tool" and this organization arent really high on those types of players.

[flafson]

I think he doesn't have alot of power but i could be wrong.

IMO (without seeing him above the raw numbers) we need more players like him.

[Caper]

There is a lot of people on this board that don't like him. They might be right.

 

But part of me suspects they don't like him because they didn't like him from the beginning. Keith Law never talked about him when he was 17... so he can't be good.

[EdelweissBouquet]

There is a lot of people on this board that don't like him. They might be right.

 

But part of me suspects they don't like him because they didn't like him from the beginning. Keith Law never talked about him when he was 17... so he can't be good.

 

Probably truth in what you say, if many touted pillar

back when jays got him, we'd be reading multiple " I

TOLD YOU SO " threads and posts.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

32nd round pick of the Blue Jays in 2011

 

-Never hit below .313 in the minors

-High OBP guy- career .373

-Great speed- career 75 for 100 SB- gets a lot of IF hits because of speed

-Really low SO rate

-Still young at 24

-Plays OF, apparently has good range- plus 15 assists already this year

-Midwest league MVP in 2012

 

Apparently scouts see him as a 4th OF type of guy... I don't see it but then I'm not a scout? I guess he doesn't have a well defined jaw or hot girlfriend? AA was quoted saying "reports are that he's ready to come if we have a need".

 

I'd like to see him instead of a crippled Melky Cabrera. At the very least please call him up in September! And please for the love of God no more Gose.

 

A lot of people are probably hesitant because he's been putting those numbers up at an older age at each level (22 years old in Rookie ball)

 

He should definitely get a look though.

[Caper]

I just miss guys that can hit. People talk sooo much about power. But just too many times this year I've seen runners in scoring position and two guys come up and strike out back to back... Or something similar. Just to have a guy that can make solid contact when there is a runner on third with one out seems like something this team lacks.

[Angrioter]

32nd round pick of the Blue Jays in 2011

 

-Never hit below .313 in the minors

-High OBP guy- career .373

-Great speed- career 75 for 100 SB- gets a lot of IF hits because of speed

-Really low SO rate

-Still young at 24

-Plays OF, apparently has good range- plus 15 assists already this year

-Midwest league MVP in 2012

 

Apparently scouts see him as a 4th OF type of guy... I don't see it but then I'm not a scout? I guess he doesn't have a well defined jaw or hot girlfriend? AA was quoted saying "reports are that he's ready to come if we have a need".

 

I'd like to see him instead of a crippled Melky Cabrera. At the very least please call him up in September! And please for the love of God no more Gose.

 

 

 

CF glove - NO

Corner OF bat - NO (no pop)

High OBP? - NO (~6% walk rate)

 

His ceiling could be "Role player"

[Caper]

High OBP? - NO (~6% walk rate)

 

Oh sorry... I forgot the walk was the only way to reach base.

[Angrioter]

Oh sorry... I forgot the walk was the only way to reach base.

 

Do you think Pillar could hit .320 in the Bigs? - NO

.270 AVG + 6% walk rate + ?? = .310-.320 OBP

[flafson]

Do you think Pillar could hit .320 in the Bigs? - NO

.270 AVG + 6% walk rate + ?? = .310-.320 OBP

 

Truth is, no one knows. Would you rather we find out or other teams find out?

[z3r0s]

Nothing is 'wrong' with Pillar... he's fun to follow. It's just hard to expect much from a guy who's game is nearly 100% based on hitting for a high average.

 

I think we'd all be thrilled if Pillar came up and hit .300. Hard to bank on that tho.

[Angrioter]

Truth is, no one knows. Would you rather we find out or other teams find out?

 

He isn't Brett Gardner. The corners OFers should hit for power and he can't; The CFers should catch the balls and he can't.

[Sorrow]

Nothing is 'wrong' with Pillar... he's fun to follow. It's just hard to expect much from a guy who's game is nearly 100% based on hitting for a high average.

 

I think we'd all be thrilled if Pillar came up and hit .300. Hard to bank on that tho.

 

Exactly this. If he comes up and allows us to trade Davis this season its a good thing. Heck even if he is only a 4th OF with average D and he hits at all its a good thing with average tools across the board.

[HERPDERP]

I remember what Keith Law said about some random scrub prospect and people pestering him on twitter

 

"You are scouting the stats, not the player"

[Angrioter]

BTW

Reds OF prospect Billy Hamilton (Triple-A Louisville - Reds 2nd round pick of the 2009 draft, Reds no. 1 ranked preseason prospect): "The speed is absolutely fantastic. He's fun to watch when he's on the bases, but I just don't see how it's going to work. There's nothing else that makes me believe he's an everyday big leaguer. You can knock the bat out of his hands with good velocity and he doesn't have the discerning eye to work counts and lay off spin. I just think the hit and on-base comes up short and he's a virtual zero offensively. If he can figure everything out in center field then maybe has a future hitting eighth or ninth and playing good D, but that's even stretching it for me."

 

Astros 2B prospect Delino DeShields (High-A Lancaster - Astros 1st round pick (8th overall) in the 2010 draft, Astros no. 4 ranked preseason prospect): "He is not going to stick at second base, and his makeup is awful. Outfielder profile and probably a left fielder at that. He has a quick bat, but I see more of a Rajai Davis type of player. He'll make it to the majors and stick for a while because of his name, but he won't be a regula

[Angrioter]

ITT: people who expected big things from Moises Sierra and Eric Thames.

 

Thames did his job, brought Delabar here

Sierra will make his job when AA put him on the mound.

[Dr. Dinger]

BTW

Reds OF prospect Billy Hamilton (Triple-A Louisville - Reds 2nd round pick of the 2009 draft, Reds no. 1 ranked preseason prospect): "The speed is absolutely fantastic. He's fun to watch when he's on the bases, but I just don't see how it's going to work. There's nothing else that makes me believe he's an everyday big leaguer. You can knock the bat out of his hands with good velocity and he doesn't have the discerning eye to work counts and lay off spin. I just think the hit and on-base comes up short and he's a virtual zero offensively. If he can figure everything out in center field then maybe has a future hitting eighth or ninth and playing good D, but that's even stretching it for me."

 

Astros 2B prospect Delino DeShields (High-A Lancaster - Astros 1st round pick (8th overall) in the 2010 draft, Astros no. 4 ranked preseason prospect): "He is not going to stick at second base, and his makeup is awful. Outfielder profile and probably a left fielder at that. He has a quick bat, but I see more of a Rajai Davis type of player. He'll make it to the majors and stick for a while because of his name, but he won't be a regula

 

This pleases me greatly, I just traded DeShields for Glasnow & Heaney.

[gruber92]

He isn't Brett Gardner. The corners OFers should hit for power and he can't; The CFers should catch the balls and he can't.

 

Have you ever watched him play bro? Also, this whole thing that corner OF's have to hit for power is stupid. The Jays can find more power at third if Pillar can put up decent numbers in the big. I haven't heard anything really negative about his defense, so left field shouldn't be a problem if he doesn't have CF range. I'll take his game with good starting pitching behind it every f***ing time.

[Angrioter]

Have you ever watched him play bro? Also, this whole thing that corner OF's have to hit for power is stupid. The Jays can find more power at third if Pillar can put up decent numbers in the big. I haven't heard anything really negative about his defense, so left field shouldn't be a problem if he doesn't have CF range. I'll take his game with good starting pitching behind it every f***ing time.

 

OK, then build your team with below .400 Slg players.. Players who can not hit for power should be used at premium defensive positions.

The defense at 1B, 3B and/or LF aren't as valuable as the other positions, therefore, the teams put their best hitters in those positions regardless of their defense..

 

Lind 2013 LF (negative D) > Pillar (positive D + .310 wOBA)

 

zero-sum game.

[Terminator]

The problem is that he doesn't walk or hit for power. What do you do with a corner guy who goes 280/310/360?

 

Agreed. And to answer your question, assuming he has typical splits for a righty, you platoon him which means he's not worth a whole lot.

[Angrioter]

The problem is that he doesn't walk or hit for power. What do you do with a corner guy who goes 280/310/360?

 

Andres Torres '13 version is a living example.

[TheHurl]

I've learned to trust no scouting service, no anything about defense so we shouldn't automatically say he can't play CF, in the 15 to 20 games I watched Pillar now I can't get a serious read on his D. I do know that from the very first game I watched him I was surprised by his swing. When drafted he was said to have an uppercut swing, but he's got a great compact swing. He's not big at all and is 100% effort. I recently compared his bat to Jeff Keppinger and I think it's a great comp. Will hit lefties but I don't think he'll hit good righties at all. He's been hitting righties in Buffalo but in his 213 PA's in New Hampshire he hit .273/.324/.389 (MLE calculator has that kind of a line at .234/.265/.310 in Toronto) line against righties while absolutely killing lefties. As with most max effort guys, that's probably his ceiling. The question is would you want Keppinger on your team if he's playing a corner OF?

 

In the end he puts balls in play and I really believe he'll hit lefties at all levels. He'll get his chance at some point but why the rush for everyone? Sierra is out of options next year so he'll be put on waivers and Rajai is an FA next year. Pillar might move up two spots on the depth chart. I'd like to see him in the Rajai role next year but it probably still depends on what the team does. Only way I add Pillar to the 40 man this year is if Melky gets a suspension or trades are made. He gets a chance to earn his 4th OF spot next year in Spring, he's at 100 PA's in Buffalo let him develop a little.

[gruber92]

Why is everyone assuming Pillars MLB stats before he actually plays? We don't know until he's given a shot. There have been many late blooming type players whose game has stuck in the bigs. Starting pitching combined with good line drive OBP types who can play defense with some power sprinkled in is the recipe for success imo. I've always loved the way the Cardinals of the early to mid 80's teams were put together. Magee, Coleman, Herr, Pendleton, Smith all did not hit for power, but had good hit tools that would CONSISTENTLY apply pressure on opposing teams, while they all played well defensively. That's the type of team I'd like to see here. I think one year Tommy Herr had over 100 RBI's with only four He's in the two slot.

[gruber92]

Phone typing truly sucks. Anyway my point is i wish AA would look to add some more Jose Reyes type bats to our line up. I hope Pillar is a September call up. I'm going to a Bison game in a few weeks and looking forward to watching Pillar play.

[Angrioter]

Phone typing truly sucks. Anyway my point is i wish AA would look to add some more Jose Reyes type bats to our line up. I hope Pillar is a September call up. I'm going to a Bison game in a few weeks and looking forward to watching Pillar play.

 

Pillar could be an upgrade at 2B or C.

[Nox]

good line drive OBP types who can play defense with some power sprinkled in is the recipe for success imo.

 

Well sure.

 

But:

A) Pillar doesn't project to be an "OBP" guy in the MLB for the reasons others have stated.

 

We don't know much about his defense.

 

He's a decent enough depth piece. But that's it.

[TheHurl]

Why is everyone assuming Pillars MLB stats before he actually plays? We don't know until he's given a shot. There have been many late blooming type players whose game has stuck in the bigs. Starting pitching combined with good line drive OBP types who can play defense with some power sprinkled in is the recipe for success imo. I've always loved the way the Cardinals of the early to mid 80's teams were put together. Magee, Coleman, Herr, Pendleton, Smith all did not hit for power, but had good hit tools that would CONSISTENTLY apply pressure on opposing teams, while they all played well defensively. That's the type of team I'd like to see here. I think one year Tommy Herr had over 100 RBI's with only four He's in the two slot.

 

Not exactly sure how this is relevant (I assume about people's comments for power from a corner OF spot) anyway one year after the Cards led the NL in scoring with 747 (1985, when Herr drove in over 100) they followed it up scoring 601 coming dead last in all of the majors. Winning with speed is great if you can get the best out of the players but it's one of the hardest things to sustain, not to mention the game has changed considerably from those mid 80's years.

[Jays]

What do you do with a corner guy who goes 280/310/360?

 

In other words, what do we do with Melky Cabrera... that's basically his slash line and position this season

[Arkadium]

According to equiv calculator (http://mlsplits.drivelinebaseball.com/mlsplits/mlecalc), from his AAA numbers (obviously SSS), his MLB slash projects as:

 

.301 / .345 / .510

 

Though I did the same with his AA numbers and it was much worse.

 

Let's see what he can do up here when he does get here. I get the impression that people think his ceiling is Reed Johnson, but nobody knows.

 

Bottom line for me is the season is over, he's an upgrade to Melky Cabrera, who is just going to be a waste of time in LF (waiting and waiting for him to become PED Cabrera which can't happen).