NBA Thread

[dineke]

Not much point to trading for Durant if you include siakam too. Fvv and og is not a good enough supporting cast.

[connorp]

Not much point to trading for Durant if you include siakam too. Fvv and og is not a good enough supporting cast.

 

Well, I don’t know Raps cap but NBA is players league and lots of guys idolize KD and would make it a possible destination for FA much more so than it is now

[jaysblue]

Not much point to trading for Durant if you include siakam too. Fvv and og is not a good enough supporting cast.

 

If you have Durant, you really don't need Siakam.

 

PG VanVleet

SG Trent Jr.

SF Anunoby

PF Durant

C Boucher or a FA center

 

Bench:

PF/C Boucher or FA

SF Porter Jr.

F Young

F Achiuwa

G Brooks

Free agent/trade

Free agent/trade

 

IMO if that Raptors team is healthy, definitely more of an NBA Champion caliber contender than with Siakam and Barnes.

[dineke]

That roster would need an all time carry job by KD to win a championship. He'll be asking for a trade again next offseason.

[connorp]

That roster would need an all time carry job by KD to win a championship. He'll be asking for a trade again next offseason.

 

I’m sure he’d be content to make it out of the East. Nobody scary there unless Boston takes next step (I mean they won the East but barely). Mia isn’t really scary. Philly is always good for 2nd round loss and Harden on downturn

[connorp]

I forgot MIL but still beatable

[connorp]

They’d be in the mix at least. Some kind of addition at deadline

[connorp]

I’d probably bandwagon the Raps for the year at least

[jaysblue]

That roster would need an all time carry job by KD to win a championship. He'll be asking for a trade again next offseason.

 

Meh, but even with the Raptors current roster, do you expect them to win a Championship?

 

The East is still wide open. Boston, Miami and Milwaukee are the top teams still, but add Durant to a Raptors roster and its a toss-up in a 7 game series against any of those teams. I'm also sure the Raptors would add if Durant was brought in.

[jaysblue]

I’d probably bandwagon the Raps for the year at least

 

The extra revenue from jersey sales, ticket sales, and TV ratings, alongside with attracting other potential top talent, there are more advantages for having Durant in a Raptors uniform than disadvantages.

[dineke]

Meh, but even with the Raptors current roster, do you expect them to win a Championship?

 

The East is still wide open. Boston, Miami and Milwaukee are the top teams still, but add Durant to a Raptors roster and its a toss-up in a 7 game series against any of those teams. I'm also sure the Raptors would add if Durant was brought in.

 

No but I don't expect the roster you proposed to win either. GTR is mediocre, FVV gets shut down in the playoffs by a bigger defenders and OG can't create offense. Need Siakam in there.

[glory]

The only way adding Durant makes sense is if the rest of the roster is good enough with him to win a championship. That won't be the case if Siakam goes the other way (I won't even talk about Barnes since there's likely no chance the Raptors trade him). My guess is KD would want to come to a team with Siakam, Barnes, and Fred on it. Not sure the Nets would take OG, Trent, and a bunch of picks, but I don't see the Raptors offering much more than that. KD has 4 years of control but those years mean nothing. He can demand a trade in 6 months and he'll be gone. That's just the way the NBA works. Getting KD is not the important part of this, it's getting KD and being good enough to compete for championships that is the key here.

[Laika]

I dunno, I feel like in context the 2018-2019 team would have looked just as questionable after Kawhi than the 2022-2023 team would look after a trade where Siakam+ leaves and Durant comes in.

 

2018-2019:

 

Lowry 32 years old, age becoming a concern

Siakam and FVV pre-breakout 24 year olds, huge questions

Ibaka - performance concerns

Gasol - very old

 

 

Comparatively this current Raptors team looks younger, with some depth and multiple prime or pre-prime players, and better positioned to move a core piece or two for one superstar....

[connorp]

Seriously if he goes to Phoenix or something, he’s a straight up B

[glory]

I dunno, I feel like in context the 2018-2019 team would have looked just as questionable after Kawhi than the 2022-2023 team would look after a trade where Siakam+ leaves and Durant comes in.

 

2018-2019:

 

Lowry 32 years old, age becoming a concern

Siakam and FVV pre-breakout 24 year olds, huge questions

Ibaka - performance concerns

Gasol - very old

 

 

Comparatively this current Raptors team looks younger, with some depth and multiple prime or pre-prime players, and better positioned to move a core piece or two for one superstar....

 

I think the difference is that DeRozan was vastly overrated as a player, and wasn’t a great defensive player. Getting Kawhi and Green for essentially him and a backup center was a heist. In this case, Siakam is actually a very good two way player. He’s not easy to replace because of his defensive ability, and he’s already proven he can be the 3rd guy on a championship team (played closer to a 2nd guy in the Finals). Replacing Siakam with KD is a clear upgrade but I think they’d miss Siakam enough to where it would hurt them a bit. Durant with Siakam and Barnes still here is a title contender. Without Siakam it would still be a really good team but a lot would be riding on Scottie’s development.

[jaysblue]

I think the difference is that DeRozan was vastly overrated as a player, and wasn’t a great defensive player. Getting Kawhi and Green for essentially him and a backup center was a heist. In this case, Siakam is actually a very good two way player. He’s not easy to replace because of his defensive ability, and he’s already proven he can be the 3rd guy on a championship team (played closer to a 2nd guy in the Finals). Replacing Siakam with KD is a clear upgrade but I think they’d miss Siakam enough to where it would hurt them a bit. Durant with Siakam and Barnes still here is a title contender. Without Siakam it would still be a really good team but a lot would be riding on Scottie’s development.

 

It was a heist for sure. DeRozan was overrated and never great defensively. However, the Raps aren't getting KD without giving up Barnes + one of Siakam/OG/FVV.

[Laika]

I think the difference is that DeRozan was vastly overrated as a player, and wasn’t a great defensive player. Getting Kawhi and Green for essentially him and a backup center was a heist. In this case, Siakam is actually a very good two way player. He’s not easy to replace because of his defensive ability, and he’s already proven he can be the 3rd guy on a championship team (played closer to a 2nd guy in the Finals). Replacing Siakam with KD is a clear upgrade but I think they’d miss Siakam enough to where it would hurt them a bit. Durant with Siakam and Barnes still here is a title contender. Without Siakam it would still be a really good team but a lot would be riding on Scottie’s development.

 

Yeah it would be a bet on the continued development of the young players, just like the Kawhi trade was kind of a bet on Siakam etc. developing.

 

They only do a Durant trade like this if they think the young core players remaining have another level. Mostly that would mean OG and Barnes I think.

 

Could he have another level?

 

Barnes - yes

OG - probably and he is a young/core player

FVV - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Siakam - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Trent Jr. - personally I doubt it

Boucher - maybe? but he's not that significant.

Achiuwa - probably, but he's not that significant.

[jaysblue]

Yeah it would be a bet on the continued development of the young players, just like the Kawhi trade was kind of a bet on Siakam etc. developing.

 

They only do a Durant trade like this if they think the young core players remaining have another level. Mostly that would mean OG and Barnes I think.

 

Could he have another level?

 

Barnes - yes

OG - probably and he is a young/core player

FVV - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Siakam - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Trent Jr. - personally I doubt it

Boucher - maybe? but he's not that significant.

Achiuwa - probably, but he's not that significant.

 

I think Barnes and OG are the two guys who could still take their game to another level since their young and have shown flashes of their potential. Regardless, I think it will be tough to keep both players if the Raps swing a deal for Durant, though you never know. Though I'm sure the Nets will want at least one of Barnes or OG leading the deal.

 

Siakam and FVV are still in their prime, though doubt they have any more potential growth. They are what they are now at this point. Siakam is a 22 PPG, 8 REB type guy. Not sure he'll ever take the next step to be a 25-28 PPG guy. Plus trading Siakam would free up some money. Durant easily replaces him. FVV is a heart and soul guy and trading him would create a big hole at PG. If FVV stays healthy and settles into the player what he has done the past three seasons, I'll take that in a heartbeat.

 

Trent Jr is just a shooter and offensive minded player. If he grows into a 20+ PPG player which is definitely possible, great! Though his other stats like REB and AST will be on the empty side. Still a good 4th or 5th player to have in your rotation who can get hot at anytime and put up some points. Though if the Raps traded him, wouldn't lose sleep over it. Guys like him are easy to find and acquire. Would prefer to keep FVV and Siakam over Trent Jr if I had the choice.

 

Boucher I think could take the next step offensively but he won't be a significant guy. Would love to see him be a 15 PPG, 10 REB kind of guy.

[jaysblue]

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-og-anunoby-gary-trent-jr-utah-jazz-rudy-gobert-trade-talks

 

The Jazz asked about OG and Trent Jr. in a trade for Gobert.

[connorp]

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-og-anunoby-gary-trent-jr-utah-jazz-rudy-gobert-trade-talks

 

The Jazz asked about OG and Trent Jr. in a trade for Gobert.

 

Yeah when you scroll down you see Raps behind Miami and Phoenix in terms of odds for landing Durant. The first two choices are Durant’s choices but seems like Toronto has a much better deal to offer.

[Brownie19]

I’m sure he’d be content to make it out of the East. Nobody scary there unless Boston takes next step (I mean they won the East but barely). Mia isn’t really scary. Philly is always good for 2nd round loss and Harden on downturn

 

I'd add the Hawks into this conversation now that they added Murray. Young, Murray, Hunter, Collins, Capela with Bogdanovic, Okongwu, Griffen, Holiday and Williams on the bench. They'll be really solid.

[Brownie19]

I hate to say it because I love the guy, but I think the Raps should try and trade FVV now. Only 2 years left on his deal and there's no way I'm paying him a Brunson type deal for his age 30-33 seasons. He plays so hard that his body is going to give out.

 

I'm fine with OG/Trent & picks for KD. I wouldn't give up much more. Any suggesting that they give up Siakam and Barnes is f***ing insane. I wouldn't trade Barnes and picks for him straight up. You have to factor in that KD is a headcase and a f***ing douche too.

[connorp]

I hate to say it because I love the guy, but I think the Raps should try and trade FVV now. Only 2 years left on his deal and there's no way I'm paying him a Brunson type deal for his age 30-33 seasons. He plays so hard that his body is going to give out.

 

I'm fine with OG/Trent & picks for KD. I wouldn't give up much more. Any suggesting that they give up Siakam and Barnes is f***ing insane. I wouldn't trade Barnes and picks for him straight up. You have to factor in that KD is a headcase and a f***ing douche too.

 

The NY Knicks love giving big contracts to second rate players

[glory]

Yeah it would be a bet on the continued development of the young players, just like the Kawhi trade was kind of a bet on Siakam etc. developing.

 

They only do a Durant trade like this if they think the young core players remaining have another level. Mostly that would mean OG and Barnes I think.

 

Could he have another level?

 

Barnes - yes

OG - probably and he is a young/core player

FVV - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Siakam - probably not but he's good and in his prime

Trent Jr. - personally I doubt it

Boucher - maybe? but he's not that significant.

Achiuwa - probably, but he's not that significant.

 

The Raptors definitely benefitted from Siakam's development in 2018-19, but Kawhi was a one year rental for a mostly veteran team who had been good for many years but could never get over the hump. It was either continue being a 2nd round team until contracts ran out or go for the home run trade when it became available. That trade fit the timeline for that particular group.

 

If you add Durant, then yes you have him for 4 years (unless he demands a trade after 1), but he's also on the back end of his prime/career. So if Barnes doesn't really take off until year 3 or 4, then KD is kinda wasted here because you can't maximize his best remaining years. The only way for a KD trade to make sense is if they can keep Barnes and Siakam (to a lesser degree FVV as well but I'd be fine if he had to be moved). I'm also a little iffy on OG being able to take the next step. He's a very good two way 3+D player, but he can't create his own offense consistently and that's going to put a ceiling on him. The difference between him and Siakam is pretty significant, IMO. I'm more bullish on Achiuwa turning into something given his defense and improving ability to hit 3's. A center who can guard multiple positions and spread the floor on offense is a huge luxury.

 

A lineup of FVV/Barnes/KD/Siakam/Achiuwa is a title contender. Probably the best team in the East one through five. IMO either find a way to get KD with OG/Trent as the main pieces (with picks, etc, attached) or keep the status quo.

[connorp]

Shouldn’t Toronto fans be able to look at their recent history to know what works? Bunch of years of a team built for regular season success. Different guys chipping in, secondary stars. Come playoff time, flop time. Different game. Teams actually play defense, depth makes way to starters playing more.

 

No way you guys even came close to sniffing a title without KL’s play. It also allowed guys around him to flourish in lesser role.

 

Just don’t see a way to build true championship team if you can’t sign elite FA (which might be possible with KD) when you’re winning regular season games to push you to back of 1st round each year.

[jaysblue]

I hate to say it because I love the guy, but I think the Raps should try and trade FVV now. Only 2 years left on his deal and there's no way I'm paying him a Brunson type deal for his age 30-33 seasons. He plays so hard that his body is going to give out.

 

I'm fine with OG/Trent & picks for KD. I wouldn't give up much more. Any suggesting that they give up Siakam and Barnes is f***ing insane. I wouldn't trade Barnes and picks for him straight up. You have to factor in that KD is a headcase and a f***ing douche too.

 

After reading the rumours on who could be involved, definitely prefer a deal around OG/Trent + picks. If Masai can make it happen do it. KD can be a headcase, but pretty much every NBA superstar is a headcase haha.

[jaysblue]

The Raptors definitely benefitted from Siakam's development in 2018-19, but Kawhi was a one year rental for a mostly veteran team who had been good for many years but could never get over the hump. It was either continue being a 2nd round team until contracts ran out or go for the home run trade when it became available. That trade fit the timeline for that particular group.

 

If you add Durant, then yes you have him for 4 years (unless he demands a trade after 1), but he's also on the back end of his prime/career. So if Barnes doesn't really take off until year 3 or 4, then KD is kinda wasted here because you can't maximize his best remaining years. The only way for a KD trade to make sense is if they can keep Barnes and Siakam (to a lesser degree FVV as well but I'd be fine if he had to be moved). I'm also a little iffy on OG being able to take the next step. He's a very good two way 3+D player, but he can't create his own offense consistently and that's going to put a ceiling on him. The difference between him and Siakam is pretty significant, IMO. I'm more bullish on Achiuwa turning into something given his defense and improving ability to hit 3's. A center who can guard multiple positions and spread the floor on offense is a huge luxury.

 

A lineup of FVV/Barnes/KD/Siakam/Achiuwa is a title contender. Probably the best team in the East one through five. IMO either find a way to get KD with OG/Trent as the main pieces (with picks, etc, attached) or keep the status quo.

 

 

Agreed. Raptors become one of the favourites to win an NBA Championship. Boston and Milwaukee in the East would be their biggest challenge but going head-to-head with them in a 7 game series, I like their chances. Wouldn't be worried about 76ers, Heat, Hawks or other teams.

 

Also, factor in KD wants to win a Championship as the main guy. When he won one with Golden State, there will always be an asterisk next to it because he went to a super team already. He has never carried a team by himself and if he came to the Raptors and won a Championship, NBA media personalities and fans won't give him that hard of a time. I'm sure it's always at the back of his mind when fans and media personalities talk about that.

[connorp]

[/b]

 

Agreed. Raptors become one of the favourites to win an NBA Championship. Boston and Milwaukee in the East would be their biggest challenge but going head-to-head with them in a 7 game series, I like their chances. Wouldn't be worried about 76ers, Heat, Hawks or other teams.

 

Also, factor in KD wants to win a Championship as the main guy. When he won one with Golden State, there will always be an asterisk next to it because he went to a super team already. He has never carried a team by himself and if he came to the Raptors and won a Championship, NBA media personalities and fans won't give him that hard of a time. I'm sure it's always at the back of his mind when fans and media personalities talk about that.

 

Well, I’m not sure on the last paragraph but we’ll find out. If reports are right, and Phoenix is top choice, they already won without him. And Miami is kind of Butler’s team. He almost put them on his back to get to Finals. Phoenix would be a joke but I guess you can say he would be piece to put Miami over the hump. So legacy still ok there but Toronto would really rewrite his career a bit

[Dr. Dinger]

After reading the rumours on who could be involved, definitely prefer a deal around OG/Trent + picks. If Masai can make it happen do it. KD can be a headcase, but pretty much every NBA superstar is a headcase haha.

 

I'd rather keep OG than Siakam. OG is the kind of role player a championship team needs around Durant, an elite wing defender who can spot up for 3s. Siakam is a guy who needs the ball in his hands and thrives in the halfcourt predominantly against mediocre teams. Siakam isn't a dynamic playmaker, ballhandler, or creator, and I don't see him being nearly as effective if you have a guy like Durant soaking up so many possessions. In a playoff series, I would hands-down rather have OG being the primary guard against the likes of Harden, Butler, Middleton, even Giannis, than Siakam. OG is a better complimentary player and might have a bit of room to improve, whereas to me Siakam feels very much capped out on his potential. The difference in salaries between the two also means that in a potential Durant deal, if you keep OG, you'd also be able to hold onto Gary Trent, which would obviously add some much needed scoring depth.

[Dr. Dinger]

You guys are dumn if you think there's any world in which the Raptors acquire Durant without trading Barnes. Don't even allow yourself to dream about it.