NBA Thread

[Krylian]

What's funny is Masai isn't even the Raptors GM.

 

That being said, yes, the East isn't great... But I'm not looking for a team to tread water. The goal should always be a championship. Look at the teams core. Siakim has been a wonderful surprise... But it's not like they have a lot of youth beyond him that are just waiting to become stars. Maybe OG? This is a veteran core that ideally needs to get younger. If they don't have an elite star at the helm leading them then what are they exactly? Making the playoffs is nice, but they're not young, they're not athletic, they can't hit 3's... Where exactly do you think they're going? I hope I'm wrong but I'm really curious to see where this team is in 2 years.

[jaysblue]

I find it f***ing hilarious how people are crapping on the Raptors all of a sudden after some struggles as of late and how they think this team is going to go through a complete rebuild next season after KL leaves.

 

Why weren't those same people complaining about the last couple of years then when Lowry and DeRozan were leading the Raptors to first and second playoff exits?

 

The Raptors even if they lose KL still will have a solid team next season. Gasol likely opts in with his player option, Lowry is still here for another year, and Siakam and OG likely will continue to get better. Will they be a Top 2 or 3 team in the East? Likely not, but nonetheless they will still be competitive. As long as Golden State is where they all, regardless if the Raps have KL still, it will be difficult to win a championship. I'd rather see the Raptors win 50 games and come in 4th or 5th, rather than the days of the early 2000's after VC left which were awful. I have full faith in Masai keeping this team competitive as he is one of the most creative NBA minds out there. If the Raptors lose KL, I'm sure Masai will shake things up (Lowry trade possibly, add an elite player who is on an expiring contract again etc.).

[jaysblue]

Looking at the standings of the Eastern Conference right now. It would be perfect if the standings finished this exact way at the end of the season.

 

Boston and Philly as the 4th and 5th seeds would have to play each other in the first round.

 

Bucks and Raptors if they finish 1st and 2nd would face either Charlotte or Miami in the first round, with Detroit or Orlando as the other possibilities knocking on the door.

 

Pacers in third would then play the 6th place Nets in the first round.

 

Looking past that, Boston or Philly would be taken care of in the first round with both of them battling it out. If the Pacers beat the Nets, and the Bucks/Raps moves past their first round opponents, then it even becomes better. Bucks would have to play the winner of the Celtics/76ers series, and the Raptors would play Pacers in the second round. Ideal matchup.

 

So when the Eastern Finals roll around, Raptors likely only have to beat one of the Bucks, Celtics or 76ers instead of two of those teams. As things are right now and if the season finished today, I'd love the Raptors position entering the playoffs.

 

Most important thing for the Raptors though is to finish in 1st or 2nd. Gives you an easy first round opponent that you could likely walk over in 4 or 5 games. Finishing in third likely means playing the Nets, and I think the Nets could be a thorn in the Raptors or any other teams side as a first round opponent. They are a threat to upset IMO, more than a team like Charlotte or Miami.

 

If you can get Boston and Philly to finish in 4th and 5th and battle it out in the first round, that would be so sweet.

[Krylian]

I find it f***ing hilarious how people are crapping on the Raptors all of a sudden after some struggles as of late and how they think this team is going to go through a complete rebuild next season after KL leaves.

 

Why weren't those same people complaining about the last couple of years then when Lowry and DeRozan were leading the Raptors to first and second playoff exits?

 

The Raptors even if they lose KL still will have a solid team next season. Gasol likely opts in with his player option, Lowry is still here for another year, and Siakam and OG likely will continue to get better. Will they be a Top 2 or 3 team in the East? Likely not, but nonetheless they will still be competitive. As long as Golden State is where they all, regardless if the Raps have KL still, it will be difficult to win a championship. I'd rather see the Raptors win 50 games and come in 4th or 5th, rather than the days of the early 2000's after VC left which were awful. I have full faith in Masai keeping this team competitive as he is one of the most creative NBA minds out there. If the Raptors lose KL, I'm sure Masai will shake things up (Lowry trade possibly, add an elite player who is on an expiring contract again etc.).

 

They were. People have been complaining about Derozan and Lowry in the playoffs for years.

[jaysblue]

They were. People have been complaining about Derozan and Lowry in the playoffs for years.

 

But during the regular season? Raptors were selling out every night, the games were fun to watch and there was a lot of fan interest.

 

Do you really want to go back to the days of the Raptors being a bottom team in the Eastern Conference. Those were some awful years and it didn't amount to winning an NBA Championship. Obviously the end goal is to win a NBA Championship at some point, but I'd rather the Raptors still be competitive and make the playoffs every year as the 3rd, 4th or 5th place seeds, instead of being irrelevant for 4-5 years.

[dineke]

What's funny is Masai isn't even the Raptors GM.

 

That being said, yes, the East isn't great... But I'm not looking for a team to tread water. The goal should always be a championship. Look at the teams core. Siakim has been a wonderful surprise... But it's not like they have a lot of youth beyond him that are just waiting to become stars. Maybe OG? This is a veteran core that ideally needs to get younger. If they don't have an elite star at the helm leading them then what are they exactly? Making the playoffs is nice, but they're not young, they're not athletic, they can't hit 3's... Where exactly do you think they're going? I hope I'm wrong but I'm really curious to see where this team is in 2 years.

 

Masai set it up so if kawhi re-signs, they go for a championship and if he leaves, Lowry, ibaka, and gasol are all expiring and they can rebuild. I'm not worried about the future of this team at all.

[jaysblue]

Masai set it up so if kawhi re-signs, they go for a championship and if he leaves, Lowry, ibaka, and gasol are all expiring and they can rebuild. I'm not worried about the future of this team at all.

 

I'm not worried about the future as well. This team isn't going to go through a complete rebuild like tank for the next 4-5 seasons. Even if KL leaves, the Raps can retool on the fly and still be competitive. They likely will still have Lowry and Gasol, unless Masai trades Lowry and Gasol declines his player option. Siakam and OG will have another year experience under their belt, so will Freddy. Better to stay relevant rather than being the Atlanta Hawks or the New York Knicks for the next 4-5 years. Basketball isn't like hockey here in the city. Fans won't be filling the arena if the Raps are only a 20 win team for the next couple of seasons.

[Carlos Danger]

They were. People have been complaining about Derozan and Lowry in the playoffs for years.

 

Exactly. It got to the point where smart basketball fans said, ok great regular season, but show us you are not same old same old in the playoffs. They showed same old same old, and it wasn't just because LBJ.

 

I am glad JV and DMR are gone, would have not shed a tear if they traded KL also. I think they should move KL after the season regardless of what happens.

 

Hopefully he does well in the playoffs, is not injured and his stock rises.

[Krylian]

Masai set it up so if kawhi re-signs, they go for a championship and if he leaves, Lowry, ibaka, and gasol are all expiring and they can rebuild. I'm not worried about the future of this team at all.

 

And that's kinda my point. Will they pull the trigger on the rebuild or try to keep up appearances and make it look like they're still trying to contend.

[Krylian]

But during the regular season? Raptors were selling out every night, the games were fun to watch and there was a lot of fan interest.

 

Do you really want to go back to the days of the Raptors being a bottom team in the Eastern Conference. Those were some awful years and it didn't amount to winning an NBA Championship. Obviously the end goal is to win a NBA Championship at some point, but I'd rather the Raptors still be competitive and make the playoffs every year as the 3rd, 4th or 5th place seeds, instead of being irrelevant for 4-5 years.

 

Who gives a s*** about the regular season anymore. The only season that matters is the post season.

[Krylian]

Exactly. It got to the point where smart basketball fans said, ok great regular season, but show us you are not same old same old in the playoffs. They showed same old same old, and it wasn't just because LBJ.

 

I am glad JV and DMR are gone, would have not shed a tear if they traded KL also. I think they should move KL after the season regardless of what happens.

 

Hopefully he does well in the playoffs, is not injured and his stock rises.

 

Agreed. I think Lowry is 100% not on this roster to start next season.

[jaysblue]

And that's kinda my point. Will they pull the trigger on the rebuild or try to keep up appearances and make it look like they're still trying to contend.

 

They don't need to pull the trigger on a complete rebuild though, even after KL leaves. You surely don't remember some of the awful seasons the Raptors had - did the win a championship after from it?

[jaysblue]

Who gives a s*** about the regular season anymore. The only season that matters is the post season.

 

MLSE cares about the regular season lol. It's a freakin' business. When the Raptors sucked, the ACC was empty. The Raptors aren't like the Leafs, who can still fill an arena even if they suck.

 

I don't think the Raptors need to go into a complete rebuild after KL leaves and I doubt Masai does that anyways. He'll have Siakam and OG already with more experience, and if they keep Lowry and Gasol around, resign Green and bring in another piece or two to replace KL, they still have a very competitive team in the East.

 

The Raptors still have a very bright future with guys like Siakam, OG and Freddy to build around long term with some vets like Lowry, Green, Gasol and Ibaka. Add some other complimentary pieces to that, and the Raptors are still a very good team in the East.

[Abomination]

LOL at Lowry getting called for a foul on that. He complains too much in general, but that one he had a beef on.

[dineke]

hopefully gasol becomes the starter and ibaka goes to the bench soon

[Krylian]

MLSE cares about the regular season lol. It's a freakin' business. When the Raptors sucked, the ACC was empty. The Raptors aren't like the Leafs, who can still fill an arena even if they suck.

 

I don't think the Raptors need to go into a complete rebuild after KL leaves and I doubt Masai does that anyways. He'll have Siakam and OG already with more experience, and if they keep Lowry and Gasol around, resign Green and bring in another piece or two to replace KL, they still have a very competitive team in the East.

 

The Raptors still have a very bright future with guys like Siakam, OG and Freddy to build around long term with some vets like Lowry, Green, Gasol and Ibaka. Add some other complimentary pieces to that, and the Raptors are still a very good team in the East.

 

You're making my point. Just like Rogers wanted to keep butts in the seats when Shapiro knew the time to rebuild/retool was after 2016, they forced Shatkins to keep the illusion of competitive baseball going. MLSE won't allow a complete tank to happen even though basketball is the easiest sport in which to turn a franchise around. If you bottom out and/or draft really well, a couple of home runs picks and you're right back in it.

[dineke]

You're making my point. Just like Rogers wanted to keep butts in the seats when Shapiro knew the time to rebuild/retool was after 2016, they forced Shatkins to keep the illusion of competitive baseball going. MLSE won't allow a complete tank to happen even though basketball is the easiest sport in which to turn a franchise around. If you bottom out and/or draft really well, a couple of home runs picks and you're right back in it.

 

they allowed the leafs to rebuild why not the raptors? See what happens in the offseason first before complaining.

[Krylian]

they allowed the leafs to rebuild why not the raptors? See what happens in the offseason first before complaining.

 

We are allowed to predict what we think will happen you know.

[dineke]

We are allowed to predict what we think will happen you know.

 

but you keep comparing it to the jays when we actually saw an MLSE owned team completely rebuild. If they choose to treadmill it will be Masai's fault not the ownership's.

[Abomination]

they allowed the leafs to rebuild why not the raptors? See what happens in the offseason first before complaining.

 

Yeah, but the Leafs get huge TV audiences and sell out no matter how they're playing.

[dineke]

Yeah, but the Leafs get huge TV audiences and sell out no matter how they're playing.

 

And do they not get even bigger audiences when they're competing?

 

The way the raptors' structured their contracts they wont have a choice but to rebuild in 2 years unless OG and Siakam become stars.

[Abomination]

And do they not get even bigger audiences when they're competing?

 

Not in stadium since they sell out either way, and probably not as big a difference on TV as you might expect.

[Slot Machine]

Yeah, but the Leafs get huge TV audiences and sell out no matter how they're playing.

 

I think MLSE/Rogers will allow rebuild's. But only if all other attempts at building a successful team fail. The Leafs had to waste a year to show that a rebuild had to be done. The Jays tried to remain competitive for the last two years and failed, and now appear to be fully embracing a rebuild/tank. The Raptors outlook for 2019/20 will probably mirror the Blue Jays of 2017/18, trying to build for the future while also trying to make the playoffs. Nothing drastic is going to happen in Raptor land without them even having missed the playoffs once.

[Krylian]

but you keep comparing it to the jays when we actually saw an MLSE owned team completely rebuild. If they choose to treadmill it will be Masai's fault not the ownership's.

 

I'm not looking to assign blame. I'm really just curious which approach they're going to take and why.

[Dick_Pole]

I think the biggest issue here is with the word rebuild, and what that means to every individual. There is absolutely no question based on ages and contract length of several key players that a significant churn in roster will take place either this offseason or next.

 

What I take issue with is the implicit assumption of the term rebuild that the team must/will/need to/is even able to suck during that time. I'm perfectly fine with the team exploring the idea of trading Lowry, Ibaka or Gasol during the offseason. What I don't care for is the Jim/tercet loser mentality of purposely tanking for a high draft pick. It's not necessary with the way this team has drafted and developed late round picks and it's pretty much not possible with half the league being absolute dogshit with that skewed towards the Eastern Conference.

[Spanky99]

You guys make me puke...

 

[Spanky99]

Enjoy the club... they're better right now, no?

[jaysblue]

I think the biggest issue here is with the word rebuild, and what that means to every individual. There is absolutely no question based on ages and contract length of several key players that a significant churn in roster will take place either this offseason or next.

 

What I take issue with is the implicit assumption of the term rebuild that the team must/will/need to/is even able to suck during that time. I'm perfectly fine with the team exploring the idea of trading Lowry, Ibaka or Gasol during the offseason. What I don't care for is the Jim/tercet loser mentality of purposely tanking for a high draft pick. It's not necessary with the way this team has drafted and developed late round picks and it's pretty much not possible with half the league being absolute dogshit with that skewed towards the Eastern Conference.

 

Matt Devlin made the point before tipoff tonight that the Raptors have done a good job at being competitive and keeping an eye towards the future. The Raptors weren't a team who tanked the past 4-5 years but still have managed to draft guys like Siakam, and OG. I forgot the exact quote he said, but it was perfect.

[jaysblue]

You're making my point. Just like Rogers wanted to keep butts in the seats when Shapiro knew the time to rebuild/retool was after 2016, they forced Shatkins to keep the illusion of competitive baseball going. MLSE won't allow a complete tank to happen even though basketball is the easiest sport in which to turn a franchise around. If you bottom out and/or draft really well, a couple of home runs picks and you're right back in it.

 

Raptors sucked for how many years and did they win a championship from it? Did those lottery picks turn into anything special? Other than Chris Bosh in 2003 and Demar DeRozan in 2009, the Raptors high draft picks after sucking all those years really weren't franchise changing players. The Raptors the past 4-5 years have been able to remain competitive and draft solid players like OG, Siakam, and Poeltl (who was used as a trade chip in the KL deal).

[Krylian]

You guys make me puke...

 

 

Grow up.

 

 

 

....and it's the booze that's making you puke.