The Traded Away Prospects Thread ...

[Dick_Pole]

Yes... that was an awful trade

 

Without Happ pitching this well this year, the Jays are likely battling for .500 and the Yankees for second place right now. Funny so much harping about how the Astros are developing those prospects, but not a peep about how far Happ has come from that disaster of a spring training. Both teams have done well in managing the assets they got out of the deal. The only difference is the Jays have their eggs all in one basket so let's hope Happ continues to be that 95 MPH lefty with command he has been in half his starts....and apply that to all his starts consistently.

[Dick_Pole]

All you guys are depressing, stop this

 

I agree it's quite depressing. I wonder if Brewers fans have a thread dedicated to the Lawrie trade. Because these things should work both ways.

[Caper]

Without Happ pitching this well this year, the Jays are likely battling for .500 and the Yankees for second place right now. Funny so much harping about how the Astros are developing those prospects, but not a peep about how far Happ has come from that disaster of a spring training. Both teams have done well in managing the assets they got out of the deal. The only difference is the Jays have their eggs all in one basket so let's hope Happ continues to be that 95 MPH lefty with command he has been in half his starts....and apply that to all his starts consistently.

 

 

Yeah but Carlos Perez played in AAA last year!! And he is in AAA again this year!!

 

Can't you see how huge that is?

[Deadpool]

Complete bum. He sucks. No future.

 

We should trade 'em Mastroianni to get him back, y'know, to be super nice to them...

[Caper]

David Rollins is the guy in that trade now

 

Carlos Perez was the guy last year. Now it's David Rollins? Who will it be next year?

[TheHurl]

Without Happ pitching this well this year, the Jays are likely battling for .500 and the Yankees for second place right now.

 

so your assumption is that all replacement starters the Jays would have thrown out there are a huge negative value?

[G-Snarls]

Good thing Syndergaard doesn't have to face D'Arnaud in the PCL. LOL

[glory]

If anyone in the Happ deal ends up being as good as Happ, I will be surprised. I can't believe people still sweat that trade. Happ is mediocre but come on. Half the prospects in that deal were likely included so that Houston would take Cordero and Franciso's worthless contracts.

 

Yan Gomes' OBP now at .309. His BB:K rates are not good enough to sustain high batting averages so I'm not surprised his numbers dropped. He is still everything we wished JPA was, though, with much better defense.

[KingKat]

If anyone in the Happ deal ends up being as good as Happ, I will be surprised. I can't believe people still sweat that trade. Happ is mediocre but come on. Half the prospects in that deal were likely included so that Houston would take Cordero and Franciso's worthless contracts.

 

Yan Gomes' OBP now at .309. His BB:K rates are not good enough to sustain high batting averages so I'm not surprised his numbers dropped. He is still everything we wished JPA was, though, with much better defense.

 

Since the Jays took on Happ's contract and Lyon's contract, it wasn't exactly a straight salary dump. The salaries were actually pretty close to being a wash. The Astros got marginal prospects but they basically got them for nothing If Happ had not been arbitration eligible, it might have been a good trade but the Jays could have easily signed a pitcher similar to Happ for the same money they gave him in arb. It was a value negligable acquisition for the Jays. I mean Redmond could just as easily be the 5th starter and the Jays would have had Happ's salary to make other acquisition so you can even argue Happ is a negative assett. Best case scenario for the Jays is that they gave up nothing for nothing. If any of the prospects do anything in the majors, Astros win the trade. Happ is a serviceable 5th starter but it was a still a pretty pointless trade with no upside whatsoever for the Jays and at least some upside for Houston.

[Anemic0ffense]

Travis D'Arnaud absolutely destroying the PCL

 

.436/.475/.909 OPS 1.384

 

JFC. Call him back up already...

 

He was in the lineup for the Mets last night. 0-3 1BB. Struck out for the final out. Far too soon to write him off, but with each week of him getting AB's in the majors, it's looking a bit more like he's a AAAA type bat. We'll see where he is at this point next year, but if he's still hitting .200 then, he could be a bust.

[KingKat]

He was in the lineup for the Mets last night. 0-3 1BB. Struck out for the final out. Far too soon to write him off, but with each week of him getting AB's in the majors, it's looking a bit more like he's a AAAA type bat. We'll see where he is at this point next year, but if he's still hitting .200 then, he could be a bust.

 

His catching is too good to call him a bust even if he hits .200. Mets should just let him play through his offensive struggles. He provides enough value the other way and it's what's good for the future of the team. He could follow a similar path to Mesoraco or Molina, catchers who took awhile to become two way contributors but were good catchers nonetheless.

[G-Snarls]

His catching is too good to call him a bust even if he hits .200. Mets should just let him play through his offensive struggles. He provides enough value the other way and it's what's good for the future of the team. He could follow a similar path to Mesoraco or Molina, catchers who took awhile to become two way contributors but were good catchers nonetheless.

 

Agree

 

Mets season is shot anyway and he has nothing left to prove in the minors.

 

Mets should keep him up rest of the year no matter what. If he develops in to even a league average bat you're golden (though this seems less likely now). OTOH if it turns out that he can't hit his weight against MLB pitching then you know you need to find another catcher this off season and plan on him being a good defensive backup guy.

[Dick_Pole]

so your assumption is that all replacement starters the Jays would have thrown out there are a huge negative value?

 

Aaron Laffey?

 

Forget about the WAR for a minute here. The Jays are 8-4 in Happ's starts. Out of the 4 losses the team scored a combined total of 5 runs. Chances are they lose all 4 games no matter how bad Happ shits the bed or what pitcher they throw out there.

 

In the 8 wins, 4 times they scored 7 runs, once they scored 5, once 4 and twice 3. If they throw out the normal band of shitheads or Todd Redmond out there, good chance they lose the two 3-run games and maybe the 4-run game while the 5-run game is a toss up. So yeah, pretty good chance they'd be battling .500 and not in first place.

[Dick_Pole]

Since the Jays took on Happ's contract and Lyon's contract, it wasn't exactly a straight salary dump. The salaries were actually pretty close to being a wash. The Astros got marginal prospects but they basically got them for nothing If Happ had not been arbitration eligible, it might have been a good trade but the Jays could have easily signed a pitcher similar to Happ for the same money they gave him in arb. It was a value negligable acquisition for the Jays. I mean Redmond could just as easily be the 5th starter and the Jays would have had Happ's salary to make other acquisition so you can even argue Happ is a negative assett. Best case scenario for the Jays is that they gave up nothing for nothing. If any of the prospects do anything in the majors, Astros win the trade. Happ is a serviceable 5th starter but it was a still a pretty pointless trade with no upside whatsoever for the Jays and at least some upside for Houston.

 

I hate it when people talk like this as if these baseball players are nothing more than materials to be traded or robots. They are people and can perform differently under different circumstances.

 

Maybe, just maybe, someone in this organization saw something in Happ and said "Hey I can work with that". They didn't want just *any* mediocre pitcher, they want *that* mediocre pitcher.

And maybe, just maybe, AA aggressively pursued Happ to try and make good on the project, not concerned about "winning" the trade.

And maybe, just maybe, they were actually right?

 

I could totally understand people's beef with Happ up until the end of spring training. But he's beaten everyone's expectations thus far and seems to be getting better. This is the first season where they've actually had some time to work with him, and this isn't a Chacin-like run of luck. When he can spot his pitches he is very good. Why mourn this trade when the Jays have been getting good production from Happ?

 

A 95 MPH lefty with consistent command can be a good #2 starter in this league. Most of those traits describe Happ, with the one key remaining being his consistency. Let's focus on that and whether the Jays can actually get that out of him one day rather than crying spilled beans over mediocre prospects that Houston has had some success in developing.

 

(Yeah, yeah, yeah...his history...30 yo...declining age-curve...whatever...it's not like this organization hasn't gotten the best out of "older prospects" a few times before recently)

[glory]

Since the Jays took on Happ's contract and Lyon's contract, it wasn't exactly a straight salary dump. The salaries were actually pretty close to being a wash. The Astros got marginal prospects but they basically got them for nothing If Happ had not been arbitration eligible, it might have been a good trade but the Jays could have easily signed a pitcher similar to Happ for the same money they gave him in arb. It was a value negligable acquisition for the Jays. I mean Redmond could just as easily be the 5th starter and the Jays would have had Happ's salary to make other acquisition so you can even argue Happ is a negative assett. Best case scenario for the Jays is that they gave up nothing for nothing. If any of the prospects do anything in the majors, Astros win the trade. Happ is a serviceable 5th starter but it was a still a pretty pointless trade with no upside whatsoever for the Jays and at least some upside for Houston.

 

The salaries being a wash is what prompted more prospects to be added. Why would the Astros trade by far the two best players in the deal (Happ and Lyon) plus take back the deadweight salary without being compensated for it? The Jays paid with quantity, not quality.

 

And one could argue Happ was showing something different in Houston. His walks were down, GB rate was up, and strike outs were high, but he had an unsustainably high HR rate. Maybe they felt he could reach a different ceiling than what he was projected to reach at the time. He's been solid in Toronto for a 5th starter, but never really took that leap forward. Whatever. The trade was still not bad. Hell, had the Jays kept Carpenter, it would look a lot better right now.

[Anemic0ffense]

Happ's arguably better than Dickey at this point. I'd replace Dickey before Happ.

[glory]

Happ's arguably better than Dickey at this point. I'd replace Dickey before Happ.

 

I was thinking Dickey for Nick Franklin+, but then we would have no one to replace Dickey. Maybe Dickey and Thole to Seattle for Franklin and Maurer, and then Maurer to Arizona for McCarthy. Essentially, Dickey for McCarthy and Franklin. Probably a net positive and cost saving as well.

[Convo]

Happ's arguably better than Dickey at this point. I'd replace Dickey before Happ.

 

Agreed, Dickey has been a win streak buster... Happ has actually given us a chance to win in almost every outing, Dickey seems to do the opposite.

[Anemic0ffense]

^No confidence in Dickey against the A's tonight. Yes he beat them earlier this year, but past the 4th inning, the guy turns into batting practice.

[admin]

Happ's too inconsistent for me. He's one extreme or the other. It's one extreme or the other.

Five of 12 starts he's given up one or less runs.

Five of 12 starts he's given up four or more runs.

I've unlocked the code! Every second start is bad, and every other in between is good!

Earned runs in his 12 starts, from most recent:

4

0

7

1

3

3

6

0

4

1

4

0

 

28ER vs 5ER

Pitch him every ten days!

[G-Snarls]

Happ is like Star Trek movies

[Anemic0ffense]

Happ is like Star Trek movies

 

? I liked all of TNG films

[Anemic0ffense]

Oddly enough our rotation is in the order it should be...

 

Stroman

MB

Hutch

Happ

Dick

[G-Snarls]

? I liked all of TNG films

 

Yeah. It's more the original series where every other one was good. I'm dating myself. LOL. TNG movies were all good. anything with the Borg is good.

[Abomination]

Yeah. It's more the original series where every other one was good. I'm dating myself. LOL. TNG movies were all good. anything with the Borg is good.

 

I wasn't a big fan of 1. I think 2-4 have to be taken together rather than separate, which makes them all good 5 was horrible. 6 was the awesome. From TNG, didn't like 7 (although Troi crashing the Enterprise was priceless). 8 was awesome. 9 was okay, but people compared it to the standard set in 8 imo which was unfair. Didn't like 10. I like both of the reboot ones, although I don't really like the changing history part of the reboot

[Convo]

Yeah. It's more the original series where every other one was good. I'm dating myself. LOL. TNG movies were all good. anything with the Borg is good.

 

Only one TNG movie is critically acclaimed (First contact)... Nemesis was garbage, others okay.

[John_Havok]

Only one TNG movie is critically acclaimed (First contact)... Nemesis was garbage, others okay.

 

At the risk of nerding myself, the books are much better than the movies. In the books the Borg invaded the federation and laid waste to about half of it before they were beaten back and exterminated. Great mini-series of books around it including the origin of the Borg which, was really cool.

 

The other series as well around Captain Calhoun of the Excalibur was good, the Titan series with Riker as Captain is decent, the series I'm reading now has the president of the Federation assassinated on the new DS9 space station, the old one having been blown up by the Typhon Pact...another great series of books.

 

f***. All my baseball cred is gone now.

[Anemic0ffense]

Only one TNG movie is critically acclaimed (First contact)... Nemesis was garbage, others okay.

 

Nemesis is so underrated. Wasn't a 5 out of 5 star film by any means, but it was an enjoyable end to TNG.

[fireballW]

I hate it when people talk like this as if these baseball players are nothing more than materials to be traded or robots. They are people and can perform differently under different circumstances.

 

Maybe, just maybe, someone in this organization saw something in Happ and said "Hey I can work with that". They didn't want just *any* mediocre pitcher, they want *that* mediocre pitcher.

And maybe, just maybe, AA aggressively pursued Happ to try and make good on the project, not concerned about "winning" the trade.

And maybe, just maybe, they were actually right?

 

I could totally understand people's beef with Happ up until the end of spring training. But he's beaten everyone's expectations thus far and seems to be getting better. This is the first season where they've actually had some time to work with him, and this isn't a Chacin-like run of luck. When he can spot his pitches he is very good. Why mourn this trade when the Jays have been getting good production from Happ?

 

A 95 MPH lefty with consistent command can be a good #2 starter in this league. Most of those traits describe Happ, with the one key remaining being his consistency. Let's focus on that and whether the Jays can actually get that out of him one day rather than crying spilled beans over mediocre prospects that Houston has had some success in developing.

 

(Yeah, yeah, yeah...his history...30 yo...declining age-curve...whatever...it's not like this organization hasn't gotten the best out of "older prospects" a few times before recently)

 

 

Agree. Happ had pretty good K numbers all along. He has good heat for a lefty. There was more upside there. The Jays tried to keep getting EE back. AA said each year, even after getting him back after being released, that he thought EE had huge breakout potential. Someone saw something in Happ. They got him and gave it a shot, nothing wrong with that.

[Abomination]

At the risk of nerding myself, the books are much better than the movies. In the books the Borg invaded the federation and laid waste to about half of it before they were beaten back and exterminated. Great mini-series of books around it including the origin of the Borg which, was really cool.

 

The other series as well around Captain Calhoun of the Excalibur was good, the Titan series with Riker as Captain is decent, the series I'm reading now has the president of the Federation assassinated on the new DS9 space station, the old one having been blown up by the Typhon Pact...another great series of books.

 

f***. All my baseball cred is gone now.

 

It can join mine, because I've read a TON of the books. I really lucked out and got a bunch at garage sales, and capped it off with I think over a hundred at the end of an auction for like $5 total (most are almost new condition, probably been read once).